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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Marauders and Drones

Author
Kyu'to Hitsuji
Muton Technologies
#1 - 2014-09-09 20:50:33 UTC
I like flying drone ships.
But, I believe the hull options are limited in the battleship class.

The rattlesnake does fill the shield-tanked faction drone battleship very well, but there is no real armor-tanked T2 or faction drone battleship equivalent.

Now, the Nestor could be argued to fill that role, but it does, in my opinion, suffer from "too many role bonuses", and other than the large bay (and possible remote repair) doesn't really have anything 'extra special' for drones.

The Sin, although is has a drone bonus, fills a niche support role.
And the Kronos is a 4-hardpoint gunship (balanced against the other marauders).

One solution would be a new armor-tanked BS hull (galante T2 or faction), but I believe that this approach would have its own problems - i.e. new artwork, and 'unfair' to the other races! - they would want (and deserve) a new ship too.

Another possible solution would be to change the Kronus to a drone-bonused hull, but again, i think that this would unfairly unbalance the marauder line.

The solution i propose is thus:
1) create a new hi-slot module.
2) can only be fitted to turret or launcher slots.
3) can only be fitted to marauders.
4) grants 25Mbit extra drone bandwidth. (max 125 as normal)
5) grants 50m3 extra drone bay.
6) requires a new high-rank (and high requirement) drone skill to fit, one module per level. (maxes at 4 modules on a marauder, ofc).


The skill would also grant an additional set of (non stacking) drone bonuses to the marauder hull when those modules are fitted.
At lvl 5, it would grant a ~100% drone damage/hit point bonus, which would match the normal marauder base turret/missile bonus.
Other drone bonuses could also be granted, such as range or tracking, which would help for long range sentry sniping etc.
The skill bonuses can be adjusted for balance.

So, 4 fitted modules would therefore grant a marauder the ability to field a full bonused flight of sentries or heavys, with enough extra drone bay for a spare flight and a fight or two of lights.
But, the marauder would loose it's normal non-drone combat ability to match........relative to the number of modules fitted.


The advantages of this are:
1) enables 4 more drone ships!
2) enables a T2 armor tanked drone ship.
3) gives players a whole host of new fitting and combat options for their marauders, both PvE and PvP. They can trade off flying drones vs turrets/missiles
4) relatively easy to tune and balance by adjusting the skill bonuses.
5) does this without overpowering or unbalancing the current marauder line
6) no new ships need to be developed/artworked.

Some disadvantages might be (although some might consider them neutral/advantageous):
1) more slow skills to learn.
2) more expensive modules to buy (and sell!).
3) might blur the distinction in-between the marauders
4) might weaken the distinction of other drone ships such as the rattlesnake. (e.g. a golem with 2 modules and two launchers fitted would be sort of similar to a rattle)
5) more drones flying around stresses the poor hamsters.....
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#2 - 2014-09-09 21:26:41 UTC
Absolutely not. The low drone bandwidth on Marauders was very explicitly addressed by CCP Ytterbium in the Marauder rebalancing threadnought.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#3 - 2014-09-09 21:28:24 UTC
The Nestor actually has pretty fair utility for drones with the rep bonus. It even sort of fits with the Gallente active tank doctrine, where the Rattlesnake went with pure buffer.

Either way, 7.5 effective drones is all we appear to be able to get in a subcap ship, so all of the battleship drone boats have roughly equal power, with the Domi getting better application and the Rattlesnake getting superior staying power.
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#4 - 2014-09-09 21:48:15 UTC
1.) Nestor works very well.

2.) Drones are secondary weapon systems of the factions and are not seen on Marauders on purpose. So no change to Marauders.

3.) T2 Hulls might be too unbalanced with viable Drone bonusses.

4.) Just because most people choose Damage over tank and switch tank from low to mid slots doesn't mean armor tanked drone ships don't exist.

5.) With your suggestion and mods you would get something like 16-18 effective drones ... 16-18 Guard T2 ... does that seem balanced in any way ?

6.) And I very much suspect a sneak subcap carrier proposition here... nope.
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
#5 - 2014-09-09 22:53:15 UTC
never really get these threads...


as I am reading it domi still loved for a mix of drone love, easy tanking and cost. Its not a t2 resist profile...but it doesn't have to be. The uber permarun tank so loved in the days before rat agro shift still works. Even better now as its not as needed since you have to be there to not see your drones die to aggo shifts. replace permarun with pulsing/burst and the tank gets smaller and/or cheaper if shiny.


Marauders as mentioned got sentry nerfed by design, they wanted them high slot damaged based.

And ccp not picking on gallente here. If this a well they don't have an "end game" t2 drone bs, please allow hybrid caldari to pull up a stool, order a beer and cry into it. We don't have a t2 hybrid end game bs either. Our end game for hybrid performance is a tech 1 tier 3 bc lol. Gallente at least gets a BS. Except for some niche pve in 0.0 (recall some serp space ca's not frigate happy Naga could run damn good) the caldari top hybrid damage dealer is a no go for pve by and large. And is niche pvp, not feeling the warm fuzzies to bringing a naga to massive fleet bash, tidi hits its not much to kill it as I can't pilot well to offset damage.

Missile minmatar might join us too. Phoon missiles....panther guns.

Amarr might join us too. Waits for some of the regulars to post about a missile khanid boat. They just be happy at tech 1/pirate/faction though...they don't want the moon and the stars, upfront anyway lol.

TL;DR.....all races don't get everything they want. You have the start of a slippery slope with a mod that that transforms ships into not what was intended by ccp. You get this drone mod....I want a mod to run a bonused hybrid golem. MInmatar and amarr get missile t2 as well. Now the game just a mess of balancing really at that point.

Zuteh
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-09-10 00:03:46 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Absolutely not. The low drone bandwidth on Marauders was very explicitly addressed by CCP Ytterbium in the Marauder rebalancing threadnought.


Reading impaired? He said swap out the guns for drone modules not add them on top of guns... It would add a great deal of much needed variation. Tough I doubt CCP care since it's drone boats often used for PvE and it's heresy to make PvE more fun (burners need not apply).

Zan Shiro wrote:
never really get these threads...

[...]

TL;DR.....all races don't get everything they want. You have the start of a slippery slope with a mod that that transforms ships into not what was intended by ccp. You get this drone mod....I want a mod to run a bonused hybrid golem. MInmatar and amarr get missile t2 as well. Now the game just a mess of balancing really at that point.



Maybe it's time to take the hint then and add more of what people like instead of more of the same old. Gallente are the main drone boaters, they are severely lacking on the BS side the rusty old Domi is getting long in the tooth. Swapping roles of the Sin and Kronos would be a great change.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#7 - 2014-09-10 00:37:17 UTC

I really don't think this is a balanced suggestion, and it is pretty low on my "like to have" list.
Sigras
Conglomo
#8 - 2014-09-10 02:20:07 UTC
Kyu'to Hitsuji wrote:
I like flying drone ships.
But, I believe the hull options are limited in the battleship class.

The rattlesnake does fill the shield-tanked faction drone battleship very well, but there is no real armor-tanked T2 or faction drone battleship equivalent.

My navy dominix would like to have a word with you...
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2014-09-10 05:36:28 UTC
Why don't you just fly a Vindicator? It can use a full set of Sentries.
Kyu'to Hitsuji
Muton Technologies
#10 - 2014-09-10 05:43:35 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Kyu'to Hitsuji wrote:
I like flying drone ships.
But, I believe the hull options are limited in the battleship class.

The rattlesnake does fill the shield-tanked faction drone battleship very well, but there is no real armor-tanked T2 or faction drone battleship equivalent.

My navy dominix would like to have a word with you...


What would it like to say? Perhaps:
"Even if i add a fed navy omni to my extra mid slot, i still can't catch up to the T1 Domi's drone optimal range and tracking bonuses?"

Not dissing the Navy Domi, it's a good ship, but it's not a better drone ship than the old domi.
If its fully fit for drone-age, it won't have the resources left to take advantage of the hybrid damage bonus.
Perhaps it would be better with a hybrid range bonus instead of the drone bonus. Or bring out a Navy Hyp for that rails role, and give the Navy domi the dual drone bonus that would fit it better. However, that would rightfully imply that all 4 races should get an extra navy faction BS. (might not be a bad thing, could fill in the holes mentioned in posts above)

Kyu'to Hitsuji
Muton Technologies
#11 - 2014-09-10 05:50:04 UTC
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
Why don't you just fly a Vindicator? It can use a full set of Sentries.


I would, if I wanted to fly a nice blaster boat (but not with sentries in that role)
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#12 - 2014-09-10 06:02:39 UTC
Zuteh wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Absolutely not. The low drone bandwidth on Marauders was very explicitly addressed by CCP Ytterbium in the Marauder rebalancing threadnought.


Reading impaired? He said swap out the guns for drone modules not add them on top of guns... It would add a great deal of much needed variation. Tough I doubt CCP care since it's drone boats often used for PvE and it's heresy to make PvE more fun (burners need not apply).


Drones are not a "replacement" for guns. They are, in fact, vastly superior to guns as long as you know how to keep an eye on them. OP's idea is bad and you should feel bad for supporting it.
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
#13 - 2014-09-10 09:19:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:

Drones are not a "replacement" for guns. They are, in fact, vastly superior to guns as long as you know how to keep an eye on them. OP's idea is bad and you should feel bad for supporting it.



should also feel bad for the not used in pvp comment. Guess all the worm, gila, ishtar and sentries in general threads are massive trolls ccp started by having rats post as real people accounts, or looks like them anyway.

Also probably missed drones (and damps) online for this years tournament. Something tells me they just didn't practice using drone boats only for this year's tournament. Its almost like...you know....they have years of experience using them. PL I am almost sure started using drones only just this year. Not 100% sure though....Roll