Wormholes

Risk is the same as it previously was, it's just had it's cloaking device turned off. I'm certain the vast majority of the people who are supposedly moving out would have left in 6 months anyway. Hyperion is just a convenient excuse to leave, they can blame CCP for "forcing" them out rather than just admitting that W Space isn't where they want to be right now.

Everyone know that even the 10 man corps in wspace has a 15 man blue fleet waiting on the other side of the wormhole. You just wait and see. And the russians are seeding capitals in your home again!

On the one hand W-space just being blobs and blues everywhere is not good, but on the flip side people shouldn't be able to manipulate the mechanics so easily to have "safe PVE zones".

If anything, ironically, this was easier in C5+ since collapsing wormholes there was trivial with capitals. In the lower class wormholes, where you'd expect it to be easier, it was actually considerably worse. Good luck collapsing an M267 with several Orcas jumps in a C3 now that you spawn however far you do when you come back in. The little guys got hit the hardest with this mechanic change.

There should've been some concession made to small corps in w-space, who one presumes if they are living in C1-C4 that they don't feel like they're up to C5+ anyway. There isn't really an issue of ISK making in <=C4 since there are no capital escalations. I don't quite understand why these small corps are deemed collateral damage for what is a pretty blunt instrument to "fix" risk vs reward in C5+

That being said I've got zero sympathy for daytrippers and PVE-only people who can no longer function in C5+. Their loss is of no consequence.

^^ Ages ago when I was living in a pulsar we had someone open to us and I'm guessing seeing it was coming upto the time we usually did PVE and not seeing anyone active brought a couple of scimis and tengus with prototype cloaks + covert cloaky tackle and tried to lie in wait for us collapsing. Unfortunately for them I was logged in on a cloaked up alt and saw them at it.

Agreed. A HS wh is a special case due to the rule of concord law. I didn't include it in the analysis because of concord and you can only have random pew on 1 side of the hole. For HS wh the roller will always have the advantage warping to the HS. They can only lose rolling ships due to carelessness or poor intel. Which oddly enough I totally agree with. There has to be an interface somewhere.

**The following post doesn't have much to do with the question of Actual vs Perceived "scaredy bears running from my T3 fleet" risk since I think the OP was at least partially troll-y in nature but, by raising it, several good points have been brought up. You have been warned, read at your own risk. **

I am of the opinion that Eve should reward the people that are willing to put in the extra effort, whether it be blinging your ship, following someone into their own hole, or patiently waiting on a highsec hole to gank when it closes. In the same way it should reward the hunted in those scenarios if they have the forethought to bring Falcons, or have backup pre-aligned just waiting on the "Go" command. This is all pre-established and I think that anyone not trying to troll would have a hard time arguing the basic principle. With that being said, it sets up for 2 points:
1) Frigate holes are terrible. I've written a few posts on that so I won't repeat it save to repeat one point from that, that there was no precedent for a frig only hole, not to mention an uncloseable hole.
2) For anyone who does PvE "bear" stuff in wormholes, i.e. living in that wormhole, Hyperion added more stick while adding zero carrot. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrot_and_stick for anyone who is unfamiliar with the terms I used) To clarify, if you reside in a wormhole for the PvP aspect alone, Hyperion probably added to your experience, however if you partake of the PvE and "bear" aspect of wormholes as well as the PvP like most people then Hyperion probably had at least some negative impact on your playstyle. Hyperion primarily impacted smaller groups in a negative way, due to the added manpower to accomplish the same level of system security as pre-Hyperion. I don't want to get into whether wanting system security is too "bear-ish" or not, suffice to say that everyone is responsible for making the decision to accept the risk or not and everyone has different criteria for acceptable risk.

In conclusion, I don't really like spawning 14km away from the hole in an Orca but I don't think that the change should be done away with because it only requires a change in tactics for the majority of players to adapt and move on. Remember, "You can make some of the people happy some of the time, but you can't make all of the people happy all the time". I don't really mind the changes to K hole sig mechanics either, it sucks a little more if you're on the receiving end, but if you are a competent pilot you will be rewarded by keeping your ship and if you are the ones opening the hole looking for pew then you will appreciate the reduced warning time for your potential targets. Again, it was a pretty big change when you take into account the number of activities that it can affect but it only requires a small tactical shift to accommodate. And, finally, I encourage our CSM reps to try and talk some sense into CCP in the hopes of getting some carrot added to wormholes, shift the risk/reward ratio by adding more reward so that players will accept more risk. This would make PvP players happy, whether they be part-timer PvPers or not, by bringing in more PvE'ers and bears looking to get fat and happy on the increased reward of wormholes. I would like to point out the the primary focus of such an endeavor should be the C1-C3 wormholes, the types of holes that most people start off in and the holes that are probably going to have the largest number of groups feeling downtrodden after these changes.

We live in a low-class hole (C2), so I can't speak for higher class holes and bigger ships rolling holes and what-not.

We are a small organization, we qualify as the "small guys" that keep getting mentioned.

I'm going to be blunt and honest, the changes in Hyperion have had virtually zero impact on our day to day.

When we actually roll holes we don't bother with Orcas, just battleships, so, instead of being 1km from the hole we're 5-6km, which hasn't really changed anything for us.

The frigate holes have been more or less non-existent to us -- that being, they have shown up periodically, however we don't bother using them (someone will run through in a frigate and check things out, find a desolate wasteland with tumbleweeds, and then we proceed with our night).

The sig ID's not changing after downtime was pretty cool, I think we mostly dig that.

I suppose from my perspective the "little guys" that this affected are the "little guys" who are living in higher class holes (C4 and above?), so I can't speak to them since we are super low class dudes (pun intended!).

From our perspective as a collective though, Hyperion has been kind of.. well to me it almost seems like nothing happened, good or bad.

We totally dig the overview changes though!

Yea!! This is the internet, not some place for hippies the ability to freely exchange ideas and opinions!

/sarcasm

We have to farm our statics for money, as the anom spawn rate in our C4 historically was 10/week (now it's around half that.)

Not going to spend time rolling every entrance to the statics so we can then spend time farming the combat sites we find, especially since it takes time (and risk) to find the ******* by rolling in the first place.

Anyway, we've been killed by frig gangs from newly-formed frig holes lately as well. The same thing could happen if it were cruisers except, guess what, each time it happens from a frig hole we know it would not have occurred before Hyperion because that frig hole wouldn't have formed in the first place. It's a new source of red ink for us that we can directly see (to say nothing of increased risk due to more connectivity in general.)


You should be glad there are groups like mine, that make ISK in their statics and don't go to every possible effort to avoid interacting with other players. We're not suicidal, but if we think we have a chance to win a fight, we'll take it. If we get ganked by a much larger group, the gankers get a "gf" and we go do something else (because we know you guys love to camp for those repeat kills.)

There won't be groups like mine in W-space for very long unless something is done with loot. I'm not saying take the risk away. It is kinda fun. However, if small groups can't replace their losses, they won't stay around.

Well, in an effort to sidestep any burning at the stake I may endure, I will point out that I did say that we noticed nothing bad OR GOOD with Hyperion. :)

That said, I probably should have put more emphasis on that part, that we as a group don't notice the negatives, but we most assuredly noticed the lack of positives with the latest "wormhole centric" update/patch/minispansion/whateveritscalled.

The fact that this was hyped as a mostly w-space release, yet, nothing really got us excited other than the overview stuff (not wormhole specific), that kinda bugs us.