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Lugalzagezi666
#21 - 2014-09-07 12:57:13 UTC
All you should really care is having fun. If you enjoy making your own missiles from your own loot, do that.
Kyoko Onzo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#22 - 2014-09-07 14:00:42 UTC
Lugalzagezi666 wrote:
All you should really care is having fun. If you enjoy making your own missiles from your own loot, do that.



I can't "like" this post enough. Eve is a game so treat it as such and do whatever it is that makes you satisfied/happy with the time you spent playing.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#23 - 2014-09-07 20:02:07 UTC
Abominare wrote:
So, all you should really care about is lp/hour when doing missions.

Avoid things that are like here take 30 mins and get 7k lp, do take things that are make 5k lp in 2 mins.

Amusingly the best missions are the ones where you have to fire the least, ideally avoiding everything and killing either one npc or just one spawn group.


From there focus on finding items with the highest isk/lp ratio.


Profit.

Salvage and bounties are over rated.


All you should really care about is having fun. If you wanted to achieve maximum efficiency It would simply be purchase GTC's and sell the PLEX. You need to sustain 373 million an hour (per account) in game to generate ISK faster than minimum wage.

Not doing that from missions ever.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#24 - 2014-09-08 01:19:03 UTC
get lp sell thingies buy ammo. or get lp and get ammo, if it is the same ammo you use it is pretty dang convenient, although probably not 100% optimal. Ammo is a pretty easy trade so many people do it and the market is overly competitive for my tastes.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Abominare
The Hatchery
SL0W CHILDREN AT PLAY
#25 - 2014-09-08 06:59:10 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
get lp sell thingies buy ammo. or get lp and get ammo, if it is the same ammo you use it is pretty dang convenient, although probably not 100% optimal. Ammo is a pretty easy trade so many people do it and the market is overly competitive for my tastes.


And ammo is about the worse thing you can make that isnt at least isk negative.

I get people do certain thigns certain ways for fun, but honestly I've ran missions enough to know theres not a single ounce of enjoyment left for me in running the same missions anymore. The only enjoyment left for me is to just make the wallet go up the most.
Tolkaz Khamsi
Empire Reclamation Services
#26 - 2014-09-08 12:55:05 UTC
To me, this whole discussion is a good reason why CCP needs to revamp mission-running. It's basically "gun mining" right now -- a not-fun resource gathering expedition to make ISK. There's very little surprise or challenge to it (especially since Marauders were introduced). The only time it gets even moderately sporty is when you accidentally aggro the whole room, and with a Marauder in Bastion mode even that's no longer that big a deal.

The MTU has even made looting far easier than it used to be (a change I wholly endorse, by the way - looting and salvaging L2/L3 missions is finally worth it whereas before they often weren't).

I'd like to see missions become more of a challenge. I heard one of the CCP devs say during the AT XII broadcast that they're looking at making missions more procedurally-generated, which would at least generate some element of the unknown into the process. Missions should also be the main mechanism to transmit in-game lore, but they suck at that as well -- you get the same basic missions regardless of faction, and you quickly find yourself running the same 10 missions over and over and over (and over and over) (and over and over and over and over). It becomes assembly-line work where there is no challenge or excitement at all; it's just a grind to get as much ISK with as little effort as possible.

Sigh. I don't know why I'm even bringing it up - after ten years, if CCP were going to do something about missions, they'd have done it by now. I can't see any major changes to the mechanic at this point.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2014-09-08 21:04:22 UTC
Tolkaz Khamsi wrote:
To me, this whole discussion is a good reason why CCP needs to revamp mission-running. It's basically "gun mining" right now -- a not-fun resource gathering expedition to make ISK. There's very little surprise or challenge to it (especially since Marauders were introduced). The only time it gets even moderately sporty is when you accidentally aggro the whole room, and with a Marauder in Bastion mode even that's no longer that big a deal.

The MTU has even made looting far easier than it used to be (a change I wholly endorse, by the way - looting and salvaging L2/L3 missions is finally worth it whereas before they often weren't).

There's nothing wrong with reprocessing loot drops to get minerals. It's basically recycling. The only reason you say it's a not-fun resource gathering expedition to make ISK is because it doesn't create 'Soft Targets' for you to gank. Reprocessing loot into minerals is a hell of a lot more fun than sitting in a Red Bullseye Target mining asteroids for hours and hours on end.

By the way, the term 'Gun Mining' was introduced by Soundwave & Co in an attempt to sway player opinion with their smoke and mirror act of revitalizing the Mining Profession, of which the actual intent and purpose was to create more 'Soft Targets' for ganking.



DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2014-09-08 21:26:42 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
By the way, the term 'Gun Mining' was introduced by Soundwave & Co in an attempt to sway player opinion with their smoke and mirror act of revitalizing the Mining Profession, of which the actual intent and purpose was to create more 'Soft Targets' for ganking.

Dev troll best troll. ;)
Abominare
The Hatchery
SL0W CHILDREN AT PLAY
#29 - 2014-09-08 23:46:13 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Tolkaz Khamsi wrote:
To me, this whole discussion is a good reason why CCP needs to revamp mission-running. It's basically "gun mining" right now -- a not-fun resource gathering expedition to make ISK. There's very little surprise or challenge to it (especially since Marauders were introduced). The only time it gets even moderately sporty is when you accidentally aggro the whole room, and with a Marauder in Bastion mode even that's no longer that big a deal.

The MTU has even made looting far easier than it used to be (a change I wholly endorse, by the way - looting and salvaging L2/L3 missions is finally worth it whereas before they often weren't).

There's nothing wrong with reprocessing loot drops to get minerals. It's basically recycling. The only reason you say it's a not-fun resource gathering expedition to make ISK is because it doesn't create 'Soft Targets' for you to gank. Reprocessing loot into minerals is a hell of a lot more fun than sitting in a Red Bullseye Target mining asteroids for hours and hours on end.

By the way, the term 'Gun Mining' was introduced by Soundwave & Co in an attempt to sway player opinion with their smoke and mirror act of revitalizing the Mining Profession, of which the actual intent and purpose was to create more 'Soft Targets' for ganking.



DMC


The mining revitalization left miners with massively better options to mine with far more ehp to increase the cost of actually being able to suicide gank. I'm not sure what crack you're smoking. Suicide ganking hulks used to actually be an isk positive venture. Now its suiciding miners is mostly for the lulz situation.

DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2014-09-09 02:35:13 UTC
Abominare wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Tolkaz Khamsi wrote:
To me, this whole discussion is a good reason why CCP needs to revamp mission-running. It's basically "gun mining" right now -- a not-fun resource gathering expedition to make ISK. There's very little surprise or challenge to it (especially since Marauders were introduced). The only time it gets even moderately sporty is when you accidentally aggro the whole room, and with a Marauder in Bastion mode even that's no longer that big a deal.

The MTU has even made looting far easier than it used to be (a change I wholly endorse, by the way - looting and salvaging L2/L3 missions is finally worth it whereas before they often weren't).

There's nothing wrong with reprocessing loot drops to get minerals. It's basically recycling. The only reason you say it's a not-fun resource gathering expedition to make ISK is because it doesn't create 'Soft Targets' for you to gank. Reprocessing loot into minerals is a hell of a lot more fun than sitting in a Red Bullseye Target mining asteroids for hours and hours on end.

By the way, the term 'Gun Mining' was introduced by Soundwave & Co in an attempt to sway player opinion with their smoke and mirror act of revitalizing the Mining Profession, of which the actual intent and purpose was to create more 'Soft Targets' for ganking.



DMC


The mining revitalization left miners with massively better options to mine with far more ehp to increase the cost of actually being able to suicide gank. I'm not sure what crack you're smoking. Suicide ganking hulks used to actually be an isk positive venture. Now its suiciding miners is mostly for the lulz situation.


First of all, I don't do drugs and I definitely don't like the implication. Next time you post a remark referencing me with drugs, you'll be reported. If you wanna troll someone, go do it in General Discussion sub-forum.

Obviously you believe the Mining Ship re-balance was a buff and Suicide Ganking has been nerfed hard.

Roll

In my opinion it's the other way around. However I'm not gonna derail this thread by going off topic and debating that issue with you. There's plenty of other threads available for that.


DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Abominare
The Hatchery
SL0W CHILDREN AT PLAY
#31 - 2014-09-09 04:12:20 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Abominare wrote:
So, all you should really care about is lp/hour when doing missions.

Avoid things that are like here take 30 mins and get 7k lp, do take things that are make 5k lp in 2 mins.

Amusingly the best missions are the ones where you have to fire the least, ideally avoiding everything and killing either one npc or just one spawn group.


From there focus on finding items with the highest isk/lp ratio.


Profit.

Salvage and bounties are over rated.


All you should really care about is having fun. If you wanted to achieve maximum efficiency It would simply be purchase GTC's and sell the PLEX. You need to sustain 373 million an hour (per account) in game to generate ISK faster than minimum wage.

Not doing that from missions ever.



Except this has nothing to do with the original post.

His post wasn't "is doing this really suboptimal thing the best way because its fun making a tenth of of the possible isk doing the same boring ass missions all day?"

It was is making ammo from scratch to turn into lp ammo a good or efficient way of doing missions.

to which no, that is nowhere near the best way to use the resources available. Since you'd make an absurd amount more just blitzing and using the lp to get more profitable conversions.

The problem is this thread turned into a self masturbatory experience for the DIY and be bad at eve cult.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#32 - 2014-09-09 04:46:37 UTC
Abominare wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
Abominare wrote:
So, all you should really care about is lp/hour when doing missions.

Avoid things that are like here take 30 mins and get 7k lp, do take things that are make 5k lp in 2 mins.

Amusingly the best missions are the ones where you have to fire the least, ideally avoiding everything and killing either one npc or just one spawn group.


From there focus on finding items with the highest isk/lp ratio.


Profit.

Salvage and bounties are over rated.


All you should really care about is having fun. If you wanted to achieve maximum efficiency It would simply be purchase GTC's and sell the PLEX. You need to sustain 373 million an hour (per account) in game to generate ISK faster than minimum wage.

Not doing that from missions ever.



Except this has nothing to do with the original post.

His post wasn't "is doing this really suboptimal thing the best way because its fun making a tenth of of the possible isk doing the same boring ass missions all day?"

It was is making ammo from scratch to turn into lp ammo a good or efficient way of doing missions.

to which no, that is nowhere near the best way to use the resources available. Since you'd make an absurd amount more just blitzing and using the lp to get more profitable conversions.

The problem is this thread turned into a self masturbatory experience for the DIY and be bad at eve cult.
\


Well I've been playing for 6 years now and have been waiting for someone to prove your theory crafted conclusion with screenshots. hasn't happened yet.

I have seen some nice "assets per hour generated" by Sto, and his numbers are right in line with top end looting numbers when considering "assets per hour".

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2014-09-09 05:02:53 UTC
Abominare wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
Abominare wrote:
So, all you should really care about is lp/hour when doing missions.

Avoid things that are like here take 30 mins and get 7k lp, do take things that are make 5k lp in 2 mins.

Amusingly the best missions are the ones where you have to fire the least, ideally avoiding everything and killing either one npc or just one spawn group.


From there focus on finding items with the highest isk/lp ratio.


Profit.

Salvage and bounties are over rated.


All you should really care about is having fun. If you wanted to achieve maximum efficiency It would simply be purchase GTC's and sell the PLEX. You need to sustain 373 million an hour (per account) in game to generate ISK faster than minimum wage.

Not doing that from missions ever.



Except this has nothing to do with the original post.

His post wasn't "is doing this really suboptimal thing the best way because its fun making a tenth of of the possible isk doing the same boring ass missions all day?"

It was is making ammo from scratch to turn into lp ammo a good or efficient way of doing missions.

to which no, that is nowhere near the best way to use the resources available. Since you'd make an absurd amount more just blitzing and using the lp to get more profitable conversions.

The problem is this thread turned into a self masturbatory experience for the DIY and be bad at eve cult.

Not everyone plays this game to min/max ISK per hour. You may think blitzing missions for LP's to get the highest profit item available means you're good at playing Eve. That may be fine for you but it definitely doesn't mean those who don't do it are bad at playing Eve.

There's nothing wrong with 'Doing It Yourself'. Producing munitions from minerals gained by reprocessing mission loot and then upgrading those munitions via LP's into Faction munitions is a win-win situation. The OP can use the Faction munitions and or sell them in the market if desired..


DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Abominare
The Hatchery
SL0W CHILDREN AT PLAY
#34 - 2014-09-09 05:17:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Abominare
Cipher Jones wrote:
Abominare wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
Abominare wrote:
So, all you should really care about is lp/hour when doing missions.

Avoid things that are like here take 30 mins and get 7k lp, do take things that are make 5k lp in 2 mins.

Amusingly the best missions are the ones where you have to fire the least, ideally avoiding everything and killing either one npc or just one spawn group.


From there focus on finding items with the highest isk/lp ratio.


Profit.

Salvage and bounties are over rated.


All you should really care about is having fun. If you wanted to achieve maximum efficiency It would simply be purchase GTC's and sell the PLEX. You need to sustain 373 million an hour (per account) in game to generate ISK faster than minimum wage.

Not doing that from missions ever.



Except this has nothing to do with the original post.

His post wasn't "is doing this really suboptimal thing the best way because its fun making a tenth of of the possible isk doing the same boring ass missions all day?"

It was is making ammo from scratch to turn into lp ammo a good or efficient way of doing missions.

to which no, that is nowhere near the best way to use the resources available. Since you'd make an absurd amount more just blitzing and using the lp to get more profitable conversions.

The problem is this thread turned into a self masturbatory experience for the DIY and be bad at eve cult.
\


Well I've been playing for 6 years now and have been waiting for someone to prove your theory crafted conclusion with screenshots. hasn't happened yet.

I have seen some nice "assets per hour generated" by Sto, and his numbers are right in line with top end looting numbers when considering "assets per hour".


Ok fine

http://imgur.com/h5C4blW

So i started my first mission at about 23:55, picking almost entirely burner missions my starting balance on that account was:

2 547 309 012

I kept doing missions until 1:03 in that set. Im not sure how you want to count that last late bounty, Im going to count it since I had done it in my 1 hour and 8 minute block of missions. (sorry I got distracted during my running on the eve-o forums looking at this thread)

http://imgur.com/TrONThX

Ending balance from that set: 2 603 402 532


So isk from bounties and mission rewards - repairs = $56,093,520, but thats not all I earned. 7 burner missions were completed, lets round down and say they are worth 9k lp a piece (ignoring angels nearly 14k lp) thats 63k lp earned.


SOE dumping to buy orders in my region: https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/lpstore/listcorpbuy.php

Roughly 1850 isk/lp so another 116,550,000 isk.


Total earned in just over an hour

$172,643,520 (edit, not including the LP from non burner missions I think theres a recon 1 in there so +12~ million isk)


Not even my best hour but roughly average if Im just casually missioning. You could make even more doing this in null or low sec, Ive done similar things in the past.


Happy?

You aren't going to earn anywhere near that making salvaging - reproccing - building ammo - turning ammo into faction ammo.
Abominare
The Hatchery
SL0W CHILDREN AT PLAY
#35 - 2014-09-09 05:25:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Abominare
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Abominare wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
Abominare wrote:
So, all you should really care about is lp/hour when doing missions.

Avoid things that are like here take 30 mins and get 7k lp, do take things that are make 5k lp in 2 mins.

Amusingly the best missions are the ones where you have to fire the least, ideally avoiding everything and killing either one npc or just one spawn group.


From there focus on finding items with the highest isk/lp ratio.


Profit.

Salvage and bounties are over rated.


All you should really care about is having fun. If you wanted to achieve maximum efficiency It would simply be purchase GTC's and sell the PLEX. You need to sustain 373 million an hour (per account) in game to generate ISK faster than minimum wage.

Not doing that from missions ever.




Except this has nothing to do with the original post.

His post wasn't "is doing this really suboptimal thing the best way because its fun making a tenth of of the possible isk doing the same boring ass missions all day?"

It was is making ammo from scratch to turn into lp ammo a good or efficient way of doing missions.

to which no, that is nowhere near the best way to use the resources available. Since you'd make an absurd amount more just blitzing and using the lp to get more profitable conversions.

The problem is this thread turned into a self masturbatory experience for the DIY and be bad at eve cult.

Not everyone plays this game to min/max ISK per hour. You may think blitzing missions for LP's to get the highest profit item available means you're good at playing Eve. That may be fine for you but it definitely doesn't mean those who don't do it are bad at playing Eve.

There's nothing wrong with 'Doing It Yourself'. Producing munitions from minerals gained by reprocessing mission loot and then upgrading those munitions via LP's into Faction munitions is a win-win situation. The OP can use the Faction munitions and or sell them in the market if desired..


DMC


Which isn't at all what the OP asked. Lay off the stuffs sir its hurting your reading comprehension.
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2014-09-09 07:52:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Bastion Arzi
Abominare wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
Abominare wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
Abominare wrote:
So, all you should really care about is lp/hour when doing missions.

Avoid things that are like here take 30 mins and get 7k lp, do take things that are make 5k lp in 2 mins.

Amusingly the best missions are the ones where you have to fire the least, ideally avoiding everything and killing either one npc or just one spawn group.


From there focus on finding items with the highest isk/lp ratio.


Profit.

Salvage and bounties are over rated.


All you should really care about is having fun. If you wanted to achieve maximum efficiency It would simply be purchase GTC's and sell the PLEX. You need to sustain 373 million an hour (per account) in game to generate ISK faster than minimum wage.

Not doing that from missions ever.



Except this has nothing to do with the original post.

His post wasn't "is doing this really suboptimal thing the best way because its fun making a tenth of of the possible isk doing the same boring ass missions all day?"

It was is making ammo from scratch to turn into lp ammo a good or efficient way of doing missions.

to which no, that is nowhere near the best way to use the resources available. Since you'd make an absurd amount more just blitzing and using the lp to get more profitable conversions.

The problem is this thread turned into a self masturbatory experience for the DIY and be bad at eve cult.
\


Well I've been playing for 6 years now and have been waiting for someone to prove your theory crafted conclusion with screenshots. hasn't happened yet.

I have seen some nice "assets per hour generated" by Sto, and his numbers are right in line with top end looting numbers when considering "assets per hour".


Ok fine

http://imgur.com/h5C4blW

So i started my first mission at about 23:55, picking almost entirely burner missions my starting balance on that account was:

2 547 309 012

I kept doing missions until 1:03 in that set. Im not sure how you want to count that last late bounty, Im going to count it since I had done it in my 1 hour and 8 minute block of missions. (sorry I got distracted during my running on the eve-o forums looking at this thread)

http://imgur.com/TrONThX

Ending balance from that set: 2 603 402 532


So isk from bounties and mission rewards - repairs = $56,093,520, but thats not all I earned. 7 burner missions were completed, lets round down and say they are worth 9k lp a piece (ignoring angels nearly 14k lp) thats 63k lp earned.


SOE dumping to buy orders in my region: https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/lpstore/listcorpbuy.php

Roughly 1850 isk/lp so another 116,550,000 isk.


Total earned in just over an hour

$172,643,520 (edit, not including the LP from non burner missions I think theres a recon 1 in there so +12~ million isk)


Not even my best hour but roughly average if Im just casually missioning. You could make even more doing this in null or low sec, Ive done similar things in the past.


Happy?

You aren't going to earn anywhere near that making salvaging - reproccing - building ammo - turning ammo into faction ammo.


No. You have not compared your 1 hour 8 mins of 'blitzing' to 1 hour 8 mins of killing every rat and looting and salvaging each wreck. (or maybe just looting each wreck)

Also burner missions are bad for this comparison becuase there is only 1 rat to loot and/or salvage.

not to mention there are obviously optimal ships to do this in such as marauders.
Abominare
The Hatchery
SL0W CHILDREN AT PLAY
#37 - 2014-09-09 08:04:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Abominare
Bastion Arzi wrote:
Abominare wrote:


Ok fine

http://imgur.com/h5C4blW

So i started my first mission at about 23:55, picking almost entirely burner missions my starting balance on that account was:

2 547 309 012

I kept doing missions until 1:03 in that set. Im not sure how you want to count that last late bounty, Im going to count it since I had done it in my 1 hour and 8 minute block of missions. (sorry I got distracted during my running on the eve-o forums looking at this thread)

http://imgur.com/TrONThX

Ending balance from that set: 2 603 402 532


So isk from bounties and mission rewards - repairs = $56,093,520, but thats not all I earned. 7 burner missions were completed, lets round down and say they are worth 9k lp a piece (ignoring angels nearly 14k lp) thats 63k lp earned.


SOE dumping to buy orders in my region: https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/lpstore/listcorpbuy.php

Roughly 1850 isk/lp so another 116,550,000 isk.


Total earned in just over an hour

$172,643,520 (edit, not including the LP from non burner missions I think theres a recon 1 in there so +12~ million isk)


Not even my best hour but roughly average if Im just casually missioning. You could make even more doing this in null or low sec, Ive done similar things in the past.


Happy?

You aren't going to earn anywhere near that making salvaging - reproccing - building ammo - turning ammo into faction ammo.


No. You have not compared your 1 hour 8 mins of 'blitzing' to 1 hour 8 mins of killing every rat and looting and salvaging each wreck. (or maybe just looting each wreck)

Also burner missions are bad for this comparison becuase there is only 1 rat to loot and/or salvage.

not to mention there are obviously optimal ships to do this in such as marauders.


Normalized to 152,332,517 an hour. Go find me an hours worth of missioning involving looting and/or salvage as you say in a marauder or whatever. (ill even let you dual box a salvager if it makes you happy) Your pick at whatever missions you want to use.

The act of looting and salvaging simply put slows down your ability to earn on missions. If it makes you happy then whatever floats your boat, but don't keep telling people that its anywhere near comparable income.
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2014-09-09 08:58:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Bastion Arzi
oh 152 mill...i read that wrong thought u were saying hundreds of thousands.

that is a lot for an hours work...what do u convert your lp into?

but if i can choose any two missions i choose 2 maybe 3 rounds of WC in 68 mins that what 22/23 mins per a wc. dont know how much that would get u but it should be good.
Abominare
The Hatchery
SL0W CHILDREN AT PLAY
#39 - 2014-09-09 09:03:32 UTC
I tend to rotate because I cant be bothered to manage sell orders, I'm not planning to stay missioning for too long so I dump to buy orders. I dont want to get tied up managing orders when I ship back out.


https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/lpstore/


In the past people used to keep these things guarded then people came up with things like that and lp halved in worth (among other things my corp was involved with)


I rotate around whatever is on the top page when sorting by isk/lp on SOE based on buy orders for my region feel free to list to sell orders and or ship items to other regions for more profits, its typically close enough sometimes off a few isk depending on your input costs.
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2014-09-09 09:10:05 UTC
is the comparison the same against normal level 4 missions?
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