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How Long Until Drones are Finally Nerfed

Author
Django Askulf
Best Kept Dunked
#21 - 2014-09-05 22:33:01 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
The drone meta is getting boring now, and I am looking forward to it being shaken up. So how long do we have to wait?



Awwww. Thats terrible, someone should hurry up and get started on pleasing you.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#22 - 2014-09-05 22:34:42 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Sentamon wrote:

The prefered drones for an Ishtar are heavies btw, unless you're going to go mess with low IQ gate or station campers and there is no shortage of them.

Not in every single pvp engagement involving ishtars that I've seen/partaken in over the past year or so.

PvE dudes might use heavies, but no one does ship balance around pve content.


Yea, nobody uses heavies in pvp over sentries. Sentamon is talking rubbish.
Hiply Rustic
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2014-09-05 22:39:21 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
So we have all been saying drones are OP except for the few that just trained to fly an Ishtar. The alliance tournament seems to confirm this. So, how long until the new dawn for the turret. The drone meta is getting boring now, and I am looking forward to it being shaken up. So how long do we have to wait?



Whether it would make you happy, deliriously pleasured, or simply tickled...

...I am not a mouse in your pocket.

Ralph King-Griffin wrote: "Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied." EvE: Only the strong-willied need apply.

Roflsaures Rex
Laughing Man Pirates
#24 - 2014-09-05 22:41:06 UTC
nerf drones and gallente are extremely useless
Mizhir
Escalated.
Project Gungnir.
#25 - 2014-09-05 22:41:18 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Mr Omniblivion wrote:
I think you mean "Sentry Drones"

Nope, the whole drone system needs a rebalance. The fact that no one was using smart bombs in the tournament shows that the natural counter to drones isn't working.


Nulli used smartbombs which caused them to dunk Hydra.

Now tell me what makes drones OP?

β€οΈοΈπŸ’›πŸ’šπŸ’™πŸ’œ

Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#26 - 2014-09-05 22:50:45 UTC
Mizhir wrote:
Now tell me what makes drones OP?

I'm sure you already know, but to clarify.

- Instant damage projection over long range with sentries
- Able to switch easily to face small, medium, large targets for optimal damage application.
- Highly resistant (effectively immune) to Ewar.
- BS levels of DPS possible on sub battleship class ships.
- Frigate levels of damage application possible of a battleship.
- Weapon uses no high slots so you can fit a full rack of remote reps / nuets.

Drawback

- Weapons system can be destroyed (although good luck with most drone ships housing 3 more flights, so by the time you've destroyed and targeted them all you will be dead)
Hiply Rustic
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2014-09-05 22:53:08 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Mizhir wrote:
Now tell me what makes drones OP?

I'm sure you already know, but to clarify.

- Instant damage projection over long range with sentries
- Able to switch easily to face small, medium, large targets for optimal damage application.
- Highly resistant (effectively immune) to Ewar.
- BS levels of DPS possible on sub battleship class ships.
- Frigate levels of damage application possible of a battleship.
- Weapon uses no high slots so you can fit a full rack of remote reps / nuets.

Drawback

- Weapons system can be destroyed (although good luck with most drone ships housing 3 more flights, so by the time you've destroyed and targeted them all you will be dead)



Train drones?

Ralph King-Griffin wrote: "Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied." EvE: Only the strong-willied need apply.

Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2014-09-05 23:05:54 UTC
Roflsaures Rex wrote:
nerf drones and gallente are extremely useless


Except for one of the most prominent battleship fleet compositions in the game right now

(also known as the only battleship fleet comp)
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2014-09-05 23:08:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Sentamon
Medalyn Isis wrote:


Drawback

- Weapons system can be destroyed (although good luck with most drone ships housing 3 more flights, so by the time you've destroyed and targeted them all you will be dead)


Drawbacks

- Sentries already have terrible tracking vs pilots smart enough not to burn right at you with MWD on.
- If the fight moves (warping / high speed combat), you have to fly back and pick up your drones making you extremely vulnerable to the clever pilots expecting this.
- sentry loss = ISK loss

baltec1 wrote:

Yea, nobody uses heavies in pvp over sentries. Sentamon is talking rubbish.


AT, or am I imagining things?

~ Professional Forum Alt Β ~

Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#30 - 2014-09-05 23:11:30 UTC
111kartel111 wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
So we have all been saying drones are OP except for the few that just trained to fly an Ishtar. The alliance tournament seems to confirm this. So, how long until the new dawn for the turret. The drone meta is getting boring now, and I am looking forward to it being shaken up. So how long do we have to wait?


Please expand on the we part ? do you have a mouse in your pocket?.


Nah! He just happy to see you Oops

FAKE EDIT: My sincerest apologies for my juvenile attempt at humour. I am at work at 7pm on a Friday night and I still have an hour to go Ugh
Mizhir
Escalated.
Project Gungnir.
#31 - 2014-09-05 23:19:05 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Mizhir wrote:
Now tell me what makes drones OP?

I'm sure you already know, but to clarify.

- Instant damage projection over long range with sentries
- Able to switch easily to face small, medium, large targets for optimal damage application.
- Highly resistant (effectively immune) to Ewar.
- BS levels of DPS possible on sub battleship class ships.
- Frigate levels of damage application possible of a battleship.
- Weapon uses no high slots so you can fit a full rack of remote reps / nuets.

Drawback

- Weapons system can be destroyed (although good luck with most drone ships housing 3 more flights, so by the time you've destroyed and targeted them all you will be dead)


Only few ships feature a large enough dronebay to field both sentries, ligths, mediums and heavies.

The ewar immunity is sort of countered by the fact that drones can be killed. And it is still possible to use ewar to clear tackle and escape. But yes the ewar immunity is one of the strong points with drones and is too strong at some points. One suggestion could possible be to make damps able to reduce drone control range.

BS level dps is also reachable on turret ships. And some droneships needs both drones and turrets to reach their high dps.

Light drones on battleships has always been a way to deal with frigs. Considering that many frigs got buffed and BS is heavily nerfed then it was a right choice to improve the anti frig capability of battleships. Remember you can still kill the drone and then the BS is pretty ******.

As mentioned earlier that are some ships that needs their highslots for guns to reach their dps potential. But yes there are other drone ships that got the highs free for pretty much anything. This become a problem when they have the fitting to fill those highs with those modules. Also CCP's crusade against utility highslots has enhanced this strength among droneboats.

One thing you forgot to mention was the flight time of drones. Some drones can still be outrun and most still have a significant flighttime to targets that are furthere away.

So to recacap then I think the problem lies on the ships rather than the weapon system. Namly the Worm, Gila and Ishtar as still strong as **** while VNIs are also rather strong. And lastly, geckos are OP so along is they are as common as they are, there are droneboats that are performing better than they should.

β€οΈοΈπŸ’›πŸ’šπŸ’™πŸ’œ

Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2014-09-05 23:21:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Dorian Wylde
FOTM and alliance tourney meta are not infallible indicators of something being out of balance.

Medalyn Isis wrote:
Mizhir wrote:
Now tell me what makes drones OP?

I'm sure you already know, but to clarify.

- Instant damage projection over long range with sentries
- Able to switch easily to face small, medium, large targets for optimal damage application.
- Highly resistant (effectively immune) to Ewar.
- BS levels of DPS possible on sub battleship class ships.
- Frigate levels of damage application possible of a battleship.
- Weapon uses no high slots so you can fit a full rack of remote reps / nuets.

Drawback

- Weapons system can be destroyed (although good luck with most drone ships housing 3 more flights, so by the time you've destroyed and targeted them all you will be dead)



Turrets have instant damage projection at long range. This leaves all of one primary weapon system that does not. Also, sentries are one type of drone, so this doesn't apply to drones in general.

Your second point and supposed drawback counter contradict each other. You can't have 3 flights of sentries, AND full flights of lights and mediums.

Frigate levels of damage application. Because only drone boats can use light drones?

Weapon uses no high slots, because it can be destroyed. Bombs, smart bombs, and just plain good pilots render drones pretty useless. A domi with a full rack of remote reps or neuts is still limited to a 6-10km range, and has extremely limited cap. Complain about a cap chain? Suck it up, if they're playing properly as a team they should be doing well. And they're still stuck right next to each other, and are great bomb fodder.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#33 - 2014-09-05 23:22:20 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:


Drawback

- Weapons system can be destroyed (although good luck with most drone ships housing 3 more flights, so by the time you've destroyed and targeted them all you will be dead)


Drawbacks

- Sentries already have terrible tracking vs pilots smart enough not to burn right at you with MWD on.
- If the fight moves (warping / high speed combat), you have to fly back and pick up your drones making you extremely vulnerable to the clever pilots expecting this.
- sentry loss = ISK loss

baltec1 wrote:

Yea, nobody uses heavies in pvp over sentries. Sentamon is talking rubbish.


AT, or am I imagining things?


AT is not what happens on Tranq.
Gavin Dax
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2014-09-06 00:38:19 UTC
lol, so many people saying "AT is not TQ" etc.

Anyone care to explain why the popularity of drones in the AT is due to AT mechanics (that don't apply to TQ)?

Medalyn Isis wrote:

I'm sure you already know, but to clarify.

- Instant damage projection over long range with sentries
- Able to switch easily to face small, medium, large targets for optimal damage application.
- Highly resistant (effectively immune) to Ewar.
- BS levels of DPS possible on sub battleship class ships.
- Frigate levels of damage application possible of a battleship.
- Weapon uses no high slots so you can fit a full rack of remote reps / nuets.

Drawback

- Weapons system can be destroyed (although good luck with most drone ships housing 3 more flights, so by the time you've destroyed and targeted them all you will be dead)


This. To add a few off the top of my head:
- Damage type selection
- Utility drones (jam to get out when you're losing a fight, without the usual tank/dps drawbacks of mid slot utils or low slot stabs)
- Can use semi-afk (gate camps, POS sieges, ratting, etc.)
- Don't require ammo/cap
- Huge range compared to other weapon systems even for small drones

...have every 9 fleet members fit warp core stabs and just assign your drones to one guy instead loaded with sebos... how is that not broken? It's not even necessarily obvious who has all the drones assigned to them. It doesn't take a genius to see that drone mechanics are imbalanced risk/reward etc.

As Medalyn mentioned destroying drones is often not viable - if anything drone damage should come at a trade off of drone HP or something. Fly a gnosis though and you'll see what a more balanced drone ship is like (you can actually run out of drones due to the small drone bay, and you can't carry a variety of drones either, and that's on a BC).

TBH though the entire kite meta is OP. Brawling setups are rare in PvP now for a reason - they are underpowered and too niche in comparison. The tiny amount of DPS gain (which you can lose anyway if you spend more time getting in range, provided you can even get in range) and alpha/range loss simply isn't worth it. Among other things. Even in the AT closed arena (which should be a nerf to kite setups) rarely see brawling doctrines used.

Also drones are just boring atm (which is likely a side effect of them being too easy and OP, common, etc.). I'd be willing to bet that most of those who say drones are ok as-is are just chronic drone users.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2014-09-06 00:49:31 UTC
Gavin Dax wrote:

Also drones are just boring atm (which is likely a side effect of them being too easy and OP, common, etc.). I'd be willing to bet that most of those who say drones are ok as-is are just chronic drone users.


And you can bet the complainers are chronic MWD frigate jockies that unlike frig pilots in AT, have no idea how to fly their ship.

~ Professional Forum Alt Β ~

IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#36 - 2014-09-06 01:03:37 UTC
Mr Omniblivion wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:

Yes I'd agree, although heavy drones are still far too powerful for a cruiser. The pace of change is very slow. Restricting drones to their specific class of ship, or at least their bonuses, would be a quick solution. I was hoping the alliance tournament might be a wake up call though for CCP to get their act together. The Ishtar nerf was insignificant in comparison to the problem.


What about afk cloakers with drones?


This is a very scary type of AFK cloaker. Just think about what those drones could do while the player is AFK... CCP needs to look into this now!
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
#37 - 2014-09-06 01:05:30 UTC
OP, don't be racist.

DRONES ARE PEOPLE TOO!! WHERE'S THE LOVE???

Won't somebody please think of the drones?

β€œSome capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
#38 - 2014-09-06 01:13:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
For the record, it wasn't that long ago that people were complaining about drones being too weak. In fact, there was a period here on the forums where they were being complained about for simultaneously being too weak and too strong. As a regular and experienced drone user with more than just 0 kills to 23 losses on his killboard, I'm prepared to admit that they're incredibly versatile compared to other weapons systems.

Too strong? No. My drones outright refuse to carry my luggage for me when we get home. They're too lazy to be too strong.

Too weak? I asked one of my Hobgoblin's, Dasher (I name them after reindeer), in the Skylark's (that's what I call my favourite Ishkur fit) drone bay if it was feeling a bit weak after a close call just the other day. He immediately jumped up and took off, telling me he was running away from home to prove himself by taking down Goonswarm all by himself. On the way to nul, he said, he'd be single-handedly removing Concord from highsec.

That kind of bravery is not weakness.

EDT: I actually have some serious arguments for this, but it's nothing that hasn't been said before, either on this thread or elsewhere. Drones are fine.

β€œSome capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#39 - 2014-09-06 01:49:35 UTC
I remember when missiles and Drakes were OP....




It seems so long ago now.. Sigh.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#40 - 2014-09-06 02:00:34 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
I remember when missiles and Drakes were OP....




It seems so long ago now.. Sigh.




Yeah I was just thinking how back in 2010-2011 it was Drakes Drakes Drakes and at least once a week a thread that summed up to "CCP why you no like Gallente".

Gallente ships were a joke back then with the Mega being for the most part a gank boat and the domi was for neutral RR in cases of highsec agro fu.

A Gallente ship fought like this:

- get jammed damped and disrupted.
- not have FOF missiles (as lame as they are) so you had nothing
- get webbed and scrammed to a slow crawl that would make TiDi look like fast forward while trying to get within range
- watch the enemy tank your drones while they sniped you (and even the tackler could tank them)


So some improvements were made, and now look at the complaints.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!