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High Sec Industry's viability

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Myfanwy Heimdal
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
#1 - 2014-09-02 19:09:17 UTC
Is this viable any more? I was doing alright with some industry jobs before the Big Revamp.

But now things seem to be a lot different. If I pick and choose where I get my supplies from and am willing to haul from the ends of the known universe then, on base costs alone, I am able to make 4% profit.

So for this thing that I am making I am doing a run of 100 such items and it's costing me nigh on 250m ISK. The profit on that, before sales tax is 9.5m ISK which is the four percent.

Next up comes the Production cost and it's taking away 3.5m ISK of that profit.

When sales tax comes along at the far end I will be fortunate to make a profit at all.


So, what am I doing wrong? I have gone through all of my blueprints and this is the best return. Am I in the wrong station making the thing or should I be in LoSec which, for a one person band isn't going to be good at all.

So any pointers would be much appreciated.

- Myfanwy

Pam:  I wonder what my name means in Welsh?Nessa: Why?
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2014-09-02 19:14:43 UTC
Get a team.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#3 - 2014-09-02 19:25:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
It is a lot more challenging now. I haven't got it all figured out yet myself.

The markets are still adjusting, and probably will be for a few more months, which makes it harder to find one's niche.

I'm currently relying on two things that always work for me. They keep my large tower fuelled, but that is about it.

This past weekend I experimented with something new, and though it was profitable, it was just not time-efficient, nor enjoyable.

My only advice is to be patient, and persistent. Avoid production runs that take several days, because the market can change a lot during that time.
Myfanwy Heimdal
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
#4 - 2014-09-02 20:10:40 UTC
Thanks for the replies.

Getting a team isn't going to be an option because of Real Life which is why I am running a one being Corp. So, the idea is to go alone and try to eke out an existance making things.

I've got this run which is taking a couple of days but I fear that it's going to get me nowhere. I don't know if I have to move further out from any hub or not but going into LoSec is not an option for me at the time. And running a POS is right out of the question due to Real Life which prevents me from knowing when I can get on next.

I will keep on with the spreadsheets and see if I can find a better factory planet somewhere at the same time. If the worst comes to the worst there's always mining...

No, I don't believe that I said that neither.

- Myfanwy

Pam:  I wonder what my name means in Welsh?Nessa: Why?
Lady Zarrina
New Eden Browncoats
#5 - 2014-09-02 20:11:23 UTC
Well so many variables, but 2 main ones can be: what you are producing and where you are selling.

You should be able to get more than a 4% profit. If not I would switch to a different product or different region.

EVE: All about Flying Frisky and Making Iskie
Myfanwy Heimdal
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
#6 - 2014-09-02 20:16:47 UTC
Lady Zarrina wrote:
Well so many variables, but 2 main ones can be: what you are producing and where you are selling.

You should be able to get more than a 4% profit. If not I would switch to a different product or different region.


Yes, it could be what I am selling. But the best I have found with my bluerprints is 4%.

As for selling I am looking at the major hubs as well as a number of different systems and I seem to be nobbled by the production cost

I will choose some random items from the market and see what I can do to make those.

Hwyl
Myfanwy

Pam:  I wonder what my name means in Welsh?Nessa: Why?
Korsiri
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-09-02 21:25:22 UTC
Look at the cost in the system of where you are manufacturing for one thing. https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blueprint/costindex.php check the regional cost, if it's way too high, it may be time to relocate, at least temporarily. I personally suggest moving copies of blueprints, via something like a viator, but then I'm also paranoid. ;)

Look at what you're making/wanting to make. It's not just about carrying it to the main hubs, sometimes all taht does is put you in the wrong competition. Such as sellers who buy low and sell high at an insane (to us) amount of volume, those who don't seem to know any better and don't sell for what the mins of the item would cost, either because it's an old stockpile or they just don't know any better.

Is the item(s) you're producing intended more for mission runners? If so what level? Newbies aren't going to be using T2 rigs and modules (yet) for instance so stocking them isn't that useful in a newbie station generally. Basically, figure out what kind of traffic comes through and therefore what they're going to want, generally.

Sorry if all t he above is already known! This is just part of the process I use, myself. Right now things are pretty unstable from what I've seen and I'm still looking for new niches as well.
Team Bidders
Doomheim
#8 - 2014-09-02 22:42:16 UTC
High sec industry is definitely viable.

Last month I sold 40 billions ISK of T2 ships and made 10 billions on it.

But if you're talking abount T1 modules or ships, yes it is hard to make money out of it. I've been thru that stage and I am glad I am not in it anymore. The trick that help me through that stage is -- find cheap minerals by staying away from Jita.

Hope it helps.
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
#9 - 2014-09-02 23:38:12 UTC
Myfanwy Heimdal wrote:
Thanks for the replies.

Getting a team isn't going to be an option because of Real Life which is why I am running a one being Corp. So, the idea is to go alone and try to eke out an existance making things.


Go read the patch notes about teams because they don't involve other people or corps.
Myfanwy Heimdal
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
#10 - 2014-09-03 06:26:57 UTC
Thanks, misunderstanding. I must have missedt that Patch Note mention so I will go back again.

Thanks for the pointer, it's much appreciated.

Pam:  I wonder what my name means in Welsh?Nessa: Why?
Myfanwy Heimdal
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
#11 - 2014-09-03 07:35:24 UTC
Thanks everyone for all of the replies. It's clearly a case of not getting the stuff from Jita (in fact the other hubs are usually better) and also it's often not worth selling there.

For example in my spreadsheet I have worked out the best (or least worst hubs to sell in) and for the stuff I have entered in the sheet not one of the best selling hubs is Jita. I use the price and volume for this as then there's a ready market.

I will still look for alternative markets.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions and the feedback. It's going to be lots more data entries into the spreadsheets and, the occasional foray into an asteroid belt.

Hwyl
Myfanwy

Pam:  I wonder what my name means in Welsh?Nessa: Why?
SJ Astralana
Syncore
#12 - 2014-09-03 07:57:23 UTC
Myfanwy Heimdal wrote:

Thanks everyone for the suggestions and the feedback. It's going to be lots more data entries into the spreadsheets and, the occasional foray into an asteroid belt.
Myfanwy


Spreadsheets are a deadend. Research until you're exhausted on FuzzWorks, build up a portfolio that looks promising, and coat-tail onto the the experience of producers who have been doing this since before there were insurance services in null-sec (previously known as 0.0)


Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#13 - 2014-09-03 11:40:48 UTC
spreadsheets aren't a total dead end.

It's possible, if a touch complicated (touch. not very), to build a spreadsheet which takes all blueprints, generates the costs, and gives you a display of the profit margins.

Most complicated bit of that is the price data, because you need pretty much everything.

(I'd do it in a database query. But I'm like that)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Rayzilla Zaraki
Yin Jian Enterprises
#14 - 2014-09-03 12:44:44 UTC
As mentioned, the fuzzwork site is extremely useful. First check out the production costs of your system then look around for the lowest in your region and move there. Check DOTLAN first so you don't pick a system behind low sec planets as those seem to have the lowest costs.

I am a one-being corp as well but with a total of 9 alts. My industry and mining alts all also double for PI as well (which I do in low sec). I don't get to "play" as much as I lkke due to school, family and work, but I am able to have a couple ice miners running on two screens while I do work on my third. I mine enough of the local ice to have the requisite amount of liquid ozone for a month of fuel blocks then I take the local isotopes from that to market, sell them and have a ton of ISK left after buying the nitrogen isotopes for my Caldari tower.

I have found T2 Drones turining me a decent profit (something you can also check on Fuzzworks). T2 ammo and mining crystals aren't doing to badly for me either. I researched all my necessary blueprints to 10/20 - including components like particle accelerators and thermonuclear triggers.

I have been making/mining all my materials except for moon materials and morphite.

Gate campers are just Carebears with anger issues.
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2014-09-03 13:12:36 UTC
Expect a lot of items to have stockpiles behind them from when manufacturing didn't have production costs tied in. People started hoarding stuff before crius and it's hurting to get started fresh until those supplies have exhausted.
Pookoko
Sigma Sagittarii Inc.
#16 - 2014-09-04 03:40:46 UTC
If you are doing T1 production, yes, profit margin is very thin for most items. And it is a hard ground for small to medium size business to operate. If you are just starting out, then of course T1 in small very small scale is way to go, so there are many people doing that. On the other hand, there are lots of big players in T1 market too, who competes with sheer volume and scale of their operation that it's hard for small business to compete with. For medium sized operation, I find that T2 ship/modules give best balance of profit vs. capital needed vs. limited play time.

I will also give you some general tips as your situation sounds very similar to what I have gone through over the years.
1. Consider yourself as a 'business man', rather than just an 'industrialist'. This means that you need to be market savy and also develop good competency in trading (both SP and experience wise). You've already started doing this by studying different market hubs and analysing where to buy materials and where to sell the end product. This is big part of business both in game and IRL.

2. Trading can supplement your income and help you with cash flow. If you are only building stuff, a lot of your capital is tied up until you actually sell the end product. But if you are trading (regional/station trading or whatever) at the same time, you are constantly generating income that you can keep injecting into your production to scale up your operation. I produce and sell tens of billions of stuff per month, and at the same time I also have buy/sell orders in similar scale for my regional & station trading operation. But in reality, I hardly ever have more than 5 billion ISK in cash at any time, because all my money is either being used for production or on escrow. You should always aim to operate your business with more value than the pure cash in your wallet.

3. If you are one man corp, get trading alts, make them directors and trade from corp wallet in different regions. This helps you build and consolidate capital and it takes less than a month to train an ok trading alt.

Have fun!
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#17 - 2014-09-04 10:09:48 UTC
Myfanwy Heimdal wrote:


So any pointers would be much appreciated.



I'm just a one-man show but for the time being I'm able to make on the order of 150mil a day from high-sec manufacturing. That involves about 20min a day of attention and about a 2 hour session one day a week. In terms of isk per man-hour it's still better money than null sec ratting.

I'm actually thinking about scaling up a bit for the short term because opportunities seem to be arising from people taking a wait and see attitude and some that have decided to cash out.

T-