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Low class wormholes approaching End Of Life in Hyperion

Author
Sequester Risalo
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#21 - 2014-09-01 08:36:15 UTC
Timm3h wrote:
We are living in these low class holes to find PvP content unlike fights that we could find in lowsec or nullsec, and you'll have a very hard time finding a low class corporation that would turn down good PvP just to make 100 mil split between 3 to 4 people.


It`s sad that you wrote so much text based on a wrong assumption. There are plenty stories about low class wormholers that POS up as soon as a ship appears on D-Scan. And correctly so. Real low class wormholes (C1 and C2) tend to be inhabited by small corps or solo players without the proper player and character skills to live in C3s or C4s. A single strategic cruiser flown by an experienced player could take out their entire pve fleet. There is quite a huge number of players who would prefer making isk to certainly losing ships.
Timm3h
Oruze Cruise
White Stag Exit Bag
#22 - 2014-09-01 12:31:32 UTC
Sequester Risalo wrote:
Timm3h wrote:
We are living in these low class holes to find PvP content unlike fights that we could find in lowsec or nullsec, and you'll have a very hard time finding a low class corporation that would turn down good PvP just to make 100 mil split between 3 to 4 people.


It`s sad that you wrote so much text based on a wrong assumption. There are plenty stories about low class wormholers that POS up as soon as a ship appears on D-Scan. And correctly so. Real low class wormholes (C1 and C2) tend to be inhabited by small corps or solo players without the proper player and character skills to live in C3s or C4s. A single strategic cruiser flown by an experienced player could take out their entire pve fleet. There is quite a huge number of players who would prefer making isk to certainly losing ships.


Your belief that what I have said is based on assumption is just that: your belief. Of course there are plenty of stories about people that POS up when a fight they cannot handle comes around. You might be lacking this one in your belief folder, but it happens in every type of space ranging from wardecs in empire to null blobs.

Small groups or solo players with poor skills that try to live in low class space with the sole purpose of making isk are either there because they don't know that incursions make more money in an essentially risk free environment with much less dependence on skills, or because they just want to live there. Some people just enjoy living in the not-really-unknown-but-occasionally-random area that is W-Space, and there are methods to catch these PvE-centric people with minimal effort. The reason I hesitate to mention them in my "text based on a wrong assumption" is because these people are painfully easy to extract content from. Buy a stealth bomber or two; these people will provide content whether they enjoy it or not.
Navigation Boy
Violence is the Answer
Wormhole Society
#23 - 2014-09-01 13:11:54 UTC
Sequester Risalo wrote:
Real low class wormholes (C1 and C2) tend to be inhabited by small corps or solo players without the proper player and character skills to live in C3s or C4s.


You are so wrong about C2s.
Sequester Risalo
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#24 - 2014-09-01 13:25:08 UTC
Timm3h wrote:
Of course there are plenty of stories about people that POS up when a fight they cannot handle comes around. [...] it happens in every type of space ranging from wardecs in empire to null blobs.

Small groups or solo players with poor skills that try to live in low class space with the sole purpose of making isk are either there because they don't know that incursions make more money in an essentially risk free environment with much less dependence on skills, or because they just want to live there.



Let's not start splitting hairs here. I'm happy that you acknowledge that there is a seizable group of people living in low class wormholes that are not looking for fights 24/7 but rather farm isk one way or another. Case closed.
Timm3h
Oruze Cruise
White Stag Exit Bag
#25 - 2014-09-01 13:42:02 UTC
Sequester Risalo wrote:
Timm3h wrote:
Of course there are plenty of stories about people that POS up when a fight they cannot handle comes around. [...] it happens in every type of space ranging from wardecs in empire to null blobs.

Small groups or solo players with poor skills that try to live in low class space with the sole purpose of making isk are either there because they don't know that incursions make more money in an essentially risk free environment with much less dependence on skills, or because they just want to live there.



Let's not start splitting hairs here. I'm happy that you acknowledge that there is a seizable group of people living in low class wormholes that are not looking for fights 24/7 but rather farm isk one way or another. Case closed.


Intentionally picking out my acknowledgement of PvE content-seeker existence and ignoring the part where there are easy methods to get PvP content out of them, and then closing the case? Good job detective.

There is indeed a "seizable" group of people that prefer making isk and keeping a low profile, and they exist in all types of space. Do you know what happens to people that do this in wormholes? They get sieged out by PvP groups that actively seek content, an attempt at paving the way for another group that will give a good fight or two. Good luck using the same approach on a group in any other region of space. The amount of people that hunt isk instead of pilots in low class space is non-zero, but it is nowhere near where you think it is.

Navigation Boy wrote:
Sequester Risalo wrote:
Real low class wormholes (C1 and C2) tend to be inhabited by small corps or solo players without the proper player and character skills to live in C3s or C4s.


You are so wrong about C2s.

Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
#26 - 2014-09-01 13:58:49 UTC
Sequester Risalo wrote:
Real low class wormholes (C1 and C2) tend to be inhabited by small corps or solo players without the proper player and character skills to live in C3s or C4s.


Let me tell you a little story about people esp in C2s since you obviously know not much about it.
You can team up c1 and c3s and c2s with 4s but not 1+2 and 3+4 since they have completely different statics and playstyles.

Many of the notable alliances had a c2/4 and a c5/6 wing to cater to different playertypes. largerscale<>solo/smallscale hunting, access to lowsec, more connections<> static etc. Many of those lowend groups are actually still around (NOMAX posted here fe.)
But that was at a time when a static c3/4 was among the best isk/h and thus a great huntingground. Since then c5/6 farming became no longer a thing mainly for big groups but what we call the farmers. The influx of their loot and lesser demand for t3s (almost every nullbloc flew HMgus and it was the best rattingship. Then tierice, HM rebalance and dronebuffs happened) crashed lootvalues (1/3 on ribbons, even more on other stuff).
Also other incomes were buffed (ESS, dronemodules) or made available for small groups (renting no longer a thing only shady russians did) and new incomestreams were introduced (incursions).
So living in a c1-3 became less and less viable, no reason for new players or groups to come in.
I´m guessing about 90% of the fights happened in sites (ganking and baiting) or on holes (rolling). No more siterunners kills the first one (drakes in sites went from 20% bait to 99%) and rolling also slowed down because less people in space and even less needing sites to run.

Some cracy people even loved fighting on highsecs because it needed tricks and tactics. Now we have gates everywhere...

TLDR: c2/4s were awesome and populated, got worse every year, then got stabbed by the instasigs on the UI, now Hyperion came to kick the corpse.
Maduin Shi
MAGA Inc
#27 - 2014-09-01 14:48:08 UTC
Saisin wrote:

Like my sig indicates I am a solo player.

I have been supporting Hyperion changes and still am after their deployment.



"Trying to solo EVE Online is like trying to solo Facebook." -- Torfi Frans Olafsson
Maduin Shi
MAGA Inc
#28 - 2014-09-01 14:53:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Maduin Shi
Shilalasar wrote:

Let me tell you a little story about people esp in C2s since you obviously know not much about it.
You can team up c1 and c3s and c2s with 4s but not 1+2 and 3+4 since they have completely different statics and playstyles.

Many of the notable alliances had a c2/4 and a c5/6 wing to cater to different playertypes. largerscale<>solo/smallscale hunting, access to lowsec, more connections<> static etc. Many of those lowend groups are actually still around (NOMAX posted here fe.)
But that was at a time when a static c3/4 was among the best isk/h and thus a great huntingground. Since then c5/6 farming became no longer a thing mainly for big groups but what we call the farmers. The influx of their loot and lesser demand for t3s (almost every nullbloc flew HMgus and it was the best rattingship. Then tierice, HM rebalance and dronebuffs happened) crashed lootvalues (1/3 on ribbons, even more on other stuff).
Also other incomes were buffed (ESS, dronemodules) or made available for small groups (renting no longer a thing only shady russians did) and new incomestreams were introduced (incursions).
So living in a c1-3 became less and less viable, no reason for new players or groups to come in.
I´m guessing about 90% of the fights happened in sites (ganking and baiting) or on holes (rolling). No more siterunners kills the first one (drakes in sites went from 20% bait to 99%) and rolling also slowed down because less people in space and even less needing sites to run.

Some cracy people even loved fighting on highsecs because it needed tricks and tactics. Now we have gates everywhere...

TLDR: c2/4s were awesome and populated, got worse every year, then got stabbed by the instasigs on the UI, now Hyperion came to kick the corpse.


I also tend to think that the folks supporting Hyperion are either new to wormholes and didn't know how much better things were back in the day, are living in the post-patch orgasm (C4s), are a fringe case, or are just plain ignant. +1
Ya Huei
Imperial Collective
#29 - 2014-09-01 14:59:48 UTC
Low class wormholes need an ISK/hr rebalance. IF this doesn't happen C4-C1 space will slowly lose all the people that try to make a living there.

Which in turn will leave people like me without anyone to shoot, and we don't want that to happen now do we?
calaretu
Honestly We didnt know
#30 - 2014-09-01 15:17:31 UTC
Maduin Shi wrote:


I also tend to think that the folks supporting Hyperion are either new to wormholes and didn't know how much better things were back in the day, are living in the post-patch orgasm (C4s), are a fringe case, or are just plain ignant. +1


Can I be the fringe case? I'd like that very much thank you
Maduin Shi
MAGA Inc
#31 - 2014-09-01 15:28:37 UTC
calaretu wrote:
Maduin Shi wrote:


I also tend to think that the folks supporting Hyperion are either new to wormholes and didn't know how much better things were back in the day, are living in the post-patch orgasm (C4s), are a fringe case, or are just plain ignant. +1


Can I be the fringe case? I'd like that very much thank you


Yeah just need some help filling out the other three categories + blue donut forum trolls. I love delegating.
Rei Moon
Murderous Inc
#32 - 2014-09-01 16:31:20 UTC
Very nice post OP
We ofc can adapt and we indeed are, since I've just come into wspace
but that still does not overshadow the fact
that our EvE lives have just become a tad less enjoyable with very few new features for too much more hassle.
Yes, overview and bookmarks changes and sigs persistence are awesome. Frig holes are useless (well they can actually help when defending against evictions I guess), more random connections are for the lazy non-WHers who want easy hisecs, mass spew is a forced lucky-based patch to discourage a valid emergent gameplay (sugar rolling), incursion changes are an incentive for further low class evacuation, and dual C4 statics are a neutral with pros and cons.
So generally, a MEH expansion, 4/10 for the devs, nothing to see here.
Also, as OP said, the wormhole players form the most unique and awesome community in MMOs, the complexity, maturity and fun level is off the charts. A pity it won't probably stay so.

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Angelica Everstar
#33 - 2014-09-01 16:48:26 UTC
I personally know of 2 old WH corps moving out of WHs due to these changes too...

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