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[Proposal] Shield Transfer Module
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Flapdoodle Folderol
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-08-30 18:17:12 UTC
I'd like to propose adding a shield transfer module to the game. This module transfers part of the ship's shield capacity to the target ship, say 50%. So if I'm escorting that paper thin Nereus that holds valuable cargo, I can pull 700 of my 1400 shield cap and temporarily transfer it to the Nereus. This can stack with more than one vessel supporting the Nereus and boost its shield cap considerably. This transfer could be a factor of just the base shield cap of the transferring ship so one can't use additional modules on the transferring ship to boost the shield cap higher, and only certain ships can hold the module to keep it balanced. Maybe this would help defend against those high alpha ganks and allow a viable money making source for hauler escorts.
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2014-08-31 11:10:28 UTC
Why?
Isn't the current module good enough for you?
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#3 - 2014-08-31 11:17:48 UTC
He is asking for a remote shield extender, not a remote booster.

I could get behind modules like this for capital and battle ships. Those ships are supposed to anchor fleets and giveing them something unique to help them do that would not completely suck in my book, but I am sure the PvP crowd will dice this into little bloody cubes.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#4 - 2014-08-31 11:21:05 UTC
The mechanic he is suggesting is a bit different, it would temporarily boost the ehp of the target vessel allowing it to survive alpha at the risk to his own ship.

Its an interesting idea but potentially open to abuse if not implemented carefully.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#5 - 2014-08-31 11:31:27 UTC
the problem i see with this is it would turn chimeras into the new slow cats bouncing shield back and forth to the primary or we go back to spider tanking BBs

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Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#6 - 2014-08-31 12:03:36 UTC
Rroff wrote:
The mechanic he is suggesting is a bit different, it would temporarily boost the ehp of the target vessel allowing it to survive alpha at the risk to his own ship.

Its an interesting idea but potentially open to abuse if not implemented carefully.



This.


Maybe some sig radius penalty for starters. For both the giver and receiver. I am thinking ghetto lse without the sig radius penalty being an issue off the bat.

I am thinking low(ish) sig high speed tank combo's to be an issue if not in place. Mix in spider repping, tinker tanking (I realize not common out of AT, but worth mentioning I think), and various other layers logi setups....if this in place the target inf not the sender as well, I think, should start to light up like x-mas trees sig wise just a bit.

We's also have to iron out base HP....there are implants that goe straight to base EHP. Thinking there'd be some fun maths in both receiver and giver of shield ehp having the say say 5% shield capacity implant and a booster if run running the siege warfare implant to boost the natural 10% (of max siege warfare) to like 15% (think its 15, someone please correct if wrong). IIRC these don't hit stacking math as calcs don't look at them as "mods" per se, someone please correct if wrong as well.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#7 - 2014-08-31 13:08:39 UTC
Sure why not?

I always wanted to 'protect' a tiny boat with the 40 million shield hp of a Leviathan.

What could go wrong?

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Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#8 - 2014-08-31 14:02:22 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Sure why not?

I always wanted to 'protect' a tiny boat with the 40 million shield hp of a Leviathan.

What could go wrong?


Now that you mention it, if I were able to fly interceptor tackle with an additional 10 million more shield/armor HP, perhaps I'd finally stop being terrible at it.

This gets a +1 from me, if only to see just what would happen after going down this particular rabbit hole.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#9 - 2014-08-31 14:15:52 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
elitatwo wrote:
Sure why not?

I always wanted to 'protect' a tiny boat with the 40 million shield hp of a Leviathan.

What could go wrong?


Now that you mention it, if I were able to fly interceptor tackle with an additional 10 million more shield/armor HP, perhaps I'd finally stop being terrible at it.

This gets a +1 from me, if only to see just what would happen after going down this particular rabbit hole.



the lol factor of a hero tanking inty would be classic I think.
Flapdoodle Folderol
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-09-01 00:18:00 UTC
Zan Shiro wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
elitatwo wrote:
Sure why not?

I always wanted to 'protect' a tiny boat with the 40 million shield hp of a Leviathan.

What could go wrong?


Now that you mention it, if I were able to fly interceptor tackle with an additional 10 million more shield/armor HP, perhaps I'd finally stop being terrible at it.

This gets a +1 from me, if only to see just what would happen after going down this particular rabbit hole.



the lol factor of a hero tanking inty would be classic I think.


That's why it has to be limited to certain ships. Perhaps capital ships would have a capital only module that would transfer shield capacity just to other capital ships.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#11 - 2014-09-01 00:39:10 UTC
I think balance would be served with giving it the same sort of ranges as unbonused logi, which would also open up the possibility for dedicated escort ships with bonuses to this sort of functionality.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#12 - 2014-09-01 00:40:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevyn Auscent
Flapdoodle Folderol wrote:

That's why it has to be limited to certain ships. Perhaps capital ships would have a capital only module that would transfer shield capacity just to other capital ships.

Or apply a penalty based on the difference in sig radius or something?
Simple scaling mechanic would be my thought.
Also, you would be making your capital vastly more vulnerable in return.

'While this module is active, your ship can not receive remote assistance'?

So that you can force them to turn it off by targeting them.

But this would provide alpha gank protection.
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#13 - 2014-09-01 07:49:53 UTC
Simplest ways to prevent abuse:
1 - On Grid presence: you have to be within range of the boosting ship
2 - Low Slot Module: reduces armor tanking to compensate for loss of shield.
3 - Because of the laws of entropy, a ship cannot extend more than it has to offer.
4 - The ship extending loses twice the percentage boost it extended for and therefore it cannot extend more than 50% as it cannot surrender more than 100% of its shields. Ship A has 10,000 in shields and extends 50% to ship B which has 3,000 in shields. Ship A loses 5,000 in shields while Ship B gains 1,500 (50% of it's shields).

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Anthar Thebess
#14 - 2014-09-01 08:15:35 UTC
Flapdoodle Folderol wrote:
I'd like to propose adding a shield transfer module to the game. This module transfers part of the ship's shield capacity to the target ship, say 50%. So if I'm escorting that paper thin Nereus that holds valuable cargo, I can pull 700 of my 1400 shield cap and temporarily transfer it to the Nereus. This can stack with more than one vessel supporting the Nereus and boost its shield cap considerably. This transfer could be a factor of just the base shield cap of the transferring ship so one can't use additional modules on the transferring ship to boost the shield cap higher, and only certain ships can hold the module to keep it balanced. Maybe this would help defend against those high alpha ganks and allow a viable money making source for hauler escorts.


Just a hint.
This hauler jumps by the gate, uncloaks and before you arrive/jump/target/activate module it is dead.
Simply never haul more than you should in a ship that is easy to kill.

T1 Hauler :100mil is enough for gank to be profitable.
T2 Hauler : 300mil
Orca / Freighter : 1Bil

I am also talking about : TANKED ships.
( next hint)
Cargo expanders and cargo rigs are not TANK)

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afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2014-09-01 11:02:38 UTC
+1.

I've long wanted ablative ship roles.


A couple of caveats:
>It would have to be limited to "base" shield hp - i.e. to prevent daisy chaining bricks of doom
>The damage should be unrepairable. So when the shielded target drops from "150%" shields to "95%" they can only be repaired back to "100%". The "donating ship would need to repair seperately. Basically to make it a little more challenging for logi and not a "no brainer" idea in every armor fleet, ever.
Ix Method
Doomheim
#16 - 2014-09-01 11:21:53 UTC
If sticking with the OP as a tool to make escorting Indy ships actually a thing there's no reason why it couldn't only work with X Y Z.

An actually interesting counter to ganking. Who'da thunk it.

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Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#17 - 2014-09-01 12:06:14 UTC
-1

HP transfer has been suggested many times and the contra arguments have prevailed so far.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#18 - 2014-09-01 12:07:22 UTC
Petrified wrote:
Simplest ways to prevent abuse:
1 - On Grid presence: you have to be within range of the boosting ship
2 - Low Slot Module: reduces armor tanking to compensate for loss of shield.
3 - Because of the laws of entropy, a ship cannot extend more than it has to offer.
4 - The ship extending loses twice the percentage boost it extended for and therefore it cannot extend more than 50% as it cannot surrender more than 100% of its shields. Ship A has 10,000 in shields and extends 50% to ship B which has 3,000 in shields. Ship A loses 5,000 in shields while Ship B gains 1,500 (50% of it's shields).


Not really following #4. Are you making it a percentage gain?

(i.e. "I sacrifice 50%, so you get +50%" instead of the "I sacrificd 5k, so you get 5k" that I think the OP is advocating)

That's broken the other way -- small ships can burn their shields to give a large ship a much bigger boost.

I think what you're looking for is a 1:0.5 ratio ... so ship A with 10k shield can give out no more than 5k shield (total) to the locked target(s) ... or a frig with 500 shields can give out no more than 250.


As for this being low-slot ... it should likely be mid-slot so that it can get in the way of Shield Extenders (yeah, yeah, I know that assistance modules are pretty much hi-slot), as a quick check in EFT shows a purpose-built Rokh can get over 50k raw shield HP (so 25k to a fleetmate) ... and assuming one knew what they were doing (I don't when it comes to shields), you could probably get that even higher ...

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Hakan MacTrew
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#19 - 2014-09-02 19:50:15 UTC
The OP is intriguing.

Sure, there are a huge amount of potentially game breaking pitfalls to blindly implementing a device that gives additional HP to any and every ship in the game. But with careful consideration, this could well be a viable module that could create some interesting gameplay.

Perhaps something like this could work:

A "Remote Shield Capacity Enhancer", (?,) could provide up to 15% extra Shield HP to a target vessel at the expense of 40% of the Shield HP of the ship it is fitted to. (Perhaps 20% extra from a T2 varient.)

This would be limited by several factors:

The target would not be able to gain more than a fixed percentage of additional Shield HP, (based on the hulls baseline after it has been adjusted by skills - but additional HP from rigs or modules.)
- The lore reason behind this could be that the ships shield generator would over overload.
The percentage would be based on the class of ship:
- Frigates could gain up to 100% extra.
- Destroyers could gain up to 90% extra.
- Cruisers could gain up to 65% extra.
- Battlecruisers could gain up to 55% extra.
- Battleships could gain up to 40% extra.
- Capitals could gain up to 12.5% extra.
- Supers could gain up to 7.5% extra.


These are all VERY rough numbers that are certainly open to adjustment.

I think that could work.


Another alternative could be resistance transfer, which would open possibilities for use with armour tanks as well as shield tanks. It would certainly need to have stacking penalties.


I guess the biggest question is "How would this affect the current fleet fighting 'Alpha' meta?"

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