Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Why? Is any maneuver besides warping on top of a target, web/scram, and applying massive close range damage too complicated for you?

The only unbalanced ships are the ones that can perform the stunt outlined above.

The ships that drops drones and burns away is no threat unless you're blind.

ISD please lock this thread nothing here is on topic and it has basically turned into a match of whining about the ishtar my original post was asking for ideas for a module that would be an effective counter for drones not tactics for a counter or which ship is in the top of the PvP ranks

I'm going to try to refute every counter posted here so far:

1) Smartbomb: A fleet would need a dedicated squad of ships just for this purpose. These ships would need to burn ahead towards the drones, and become separated from the main force. They would be seen outside of logi support range and picked off very quickly by the ishtar FC. If this tactic worked once, the Ishtar FC would simply order the fleet to orbit at a greater distance to launch the 2nd group.

2) Dumb Bombs: Only works in null, but is effective when available. However, this does not bring the actual ishtars into the engagement. Ishtars will happily target and volley several bombers before the drones are lost. See above about launching the 2nd wave of drones at lessened density.

3) Run Away: Fleet fights generally happen because there is an objective to attack or defend. Surrendering the field is not a means of winning objectives.

4) ECM: Drones can be set to assist other pilots, even when jammed. Rest assured that a jammed Ishtar's drones will continue to shoot whatever their FC calls as primary.

5) Sniping Logi: Someone mentioned that an ishtar fleet can be forced off the field if their logi are killed. See Also: Fleet Doctrine, Any.

6)Scram/Web: If you're fast enough to get these on an ishtar, you're sig is massive from your MWD, and those sentries already blapped you. Also, that Ishtar you're chasing will out-dps you.


The issue with Ishtars is that they have between destroyer and cruiser sig radius (MWD bonus), FAST cruiser speed, EWAR immunity (except tackle), brawler battlecruiser damage and tank, and can deal that damage at sniper range while keeping their own ship outside of engagement range.

As to the OP regarding modules, modules reducing drone control range or bandwidth could be workable, and should be implemented. Bandwidth options should be limited to larger hulls with intense fitting requirements, as they would likely see use against carriers, while control range modules should be 15-30% subject to stacking penalties with a hard cap of 75% range reduction

Its not the handling of the ship that is the issue, its the sentries. You have to live through the sentries to get to the ship. Well several of them. Creates a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario.


Basic small skirmish roams are becoming small fleets if as people are saying oh just bring bombers and falcons. Which is quite funny for 2 reasons.

We get the general consensus less falcon use in game is preferred by many. Insert several ecm thread rants here. I can fly hacs and recons. Personally I'd rather x up in fleet in a hac and roll with that over FC going aww man...I know you can fly falcon and we need them because of Ishtar...can you run that instead.

And many want to see eve shift from "blob" warfare to actual skirmish once in a while. When you have several man bomber wings and several falcons to support the 10 man hac roam....its quickly not becoming a skirmish night.

Falcons don't counter ishtars because of assist, and because drones keep shooting as long as the falcon gets locked at all.

No but Ishtars counter ECM ships that can ruin pretty much everyone else. For this reason alone nerfing the Ishtar furhter would be a terrible idea.

Ravens: Cruise missiles arent effective from range b/c it takes 10+seconds for volleys to reach the targets - long enough to warp away once you see yourself redboxed and then come back, at which point 2 volleys have been wasted on a target that isnt there.[/quote]

It's more then ironic that an Ishtar warping out of danger is a viable strategy but other ships warping out of danger from Ishtars isn't.

Ships warping around is a huge achilees heal for Ishtars.[/quote]


Agreed, if a fleet can warp 150 km at a time it can stay away from sentries and maintain position on objectives, pissing off ishtars as they move away from all their sentries, but this tactic is a PITA to implement.

As to running from ravens at range, the whole fleet wouldnt need to warp off, just whichever ishtar pilot noticed themselves being primaried. Just a general observation and long-held issue with cruise-missile sniping.

As to ishtars countering ECM - they do, and they should. Assist is a great mechanic for that. However, droneboats should still be vulnerable to SOME form of ewar (and NOT the TD, which already counters anything in the gunnery tree)

As to ishtars themselves - I believe, like the OP, that the problem is more with the lack of ewar counters to drones than with the hull itself (although the hull is VERY strong)- notice also the popularity of domis, geddons, and slowcats (ok, so carriers are supposed to be a bit OP - different conversation there). The vexor is the strongest t1 cruiser, and while not really overpowered, the prophecy and myrmidon have grown in popularity for small gangs. The fact is that the release of drone damage amps shifted the balance for all drone ships - many of which really needed a buff; but they are now in need of a counter.

They saw it on twitch tv...so its gotta work.


This turns them on apparently. I see 2 drone comps go head to head in AT I do other things more exciting for a few minutes (like watch paint dry) and catch the match halfway when they actually get to shooting the real ships.

The problem isn't just Ishtars - most ship size/class the drone boats dominate, by a large margin (some exceptions - Assault Frigates, and the problem is outta control at cruiser size)

Worm, Vexor, VNI, Gila, Ishtar

And they outclass their peers by a fair bit.

They can brawl, kite. They can shield or armor tank. They can use highs for even more dps or heavy neuting. They may not be the best at any single of these roles (actually I'm wrong, no better brawl cruiser exists than the drone ones, take your pick, with armor tank, Neuts and gecko mix 800 dps), but they can do all, in a single fit better than any other ship.

They're cap free dmg, dmg type selectable, immune to TDs, continue to pummel after ECM, and with the stupid bonuses they apply their damage better than any other weapon system. All drone boats have enough of a drone bay to have multiple flights.

Rise has made it all about the Sentries on the Ishtar, and that is just the frakin tip of the imbalance iceberg.

There was some talk about TDs effecting missiles, I'd say post AT, bring that back on the table and here's your anti-drone counter- Smartbombs.

Buff Smartbombs damage vs drones, across the board by 2-3x

Them utility highs need something other than Neuts in there :)

That'll shake the meta, yknow it.

Large fleet doctrine has supported alpha fleet since logistics became a thing. Logi means nothing if your first shot completely obliterates the target.

If what you are saying were true then everyone would still be flying Arty Abbadons or Maelstroms. But they don't. People use HACs because of small signature radius and speed compared to a T1 BS that costs just as much, moves slowly, takes more damage from bombs, and uses large weapons that struggle vs smaller targets.

HACs, being medium ships, use medium weapons and like all medium ships do better damage vs medium and larger targets. The one and only exception in the realm of medium ships is the Ishtar, which not only can easily field a full complement of large weapons, but even has multiple bonuses to them, including damage application.

The real question people should be asking is "Why is the Ishtar the only medium ship that can effectively use large weapons?"

The solution is simply to remove the Ishtar's ability to use large and sentry drones by reducing its drone bandwidth to 50Mb. Now change those drone bonuses to medium drones and let them bring a ****-ton of them so they can't be easily defanged and can take full advantage of fully selectable damage types.

The reduction in raw dps can easily be compensated by boosting the per level damage bonus to drones.

Another more complicated, but more comprehensive, option would be to expand the selection of sentry drones to include multiple sizes, with the current set being the large variant. This would require additional skills be introduced to Eve. But then you could have a medium ship doing reasonable dps to the proper targets, rather than everything under the sun.