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Customs Office being taken over as normal by big corps
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Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#121 - 2011-12-09 22:08:56 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
DAMN YOU TEAMWORK!!!!


The power rangers were right. Teamwork really does allow you to triumph over all.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Lone Gunman
Forhotea Corporation
#122 - 2011-12-09 22:11:03 UTC
Myz Toyou wrote:
I´m playing this game now since 6 years straight and over the time the ammount of people who joined EVE and tried playing it like in single person mode grew with every year.
I dont have a problem with that tbh, what annoys/irritates me is that these people think the game should obey to their playstyle and they should have the same chances ingame as people who invest in the social aspect of EVE aka joining a corp that contains more then yourself and your alts.
I guess its just a sign of the last decades that these people startet playing video games before they learned to interact with other humans, maybe even in RL Shocked

I can only hope CCP will never obey to those antisocialinmomsbasementlivingneckbeards.


I have been playing this game for 9 1/2 years including the Beta and pay the same amount per month to play as you do. I have never told someone else to that the way they play the game is wrong because I play it differently.

Please give me and everyone else here the same consideration.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#123 - 2011-12-09 22:33:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Lone Gunman wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Except, of course, that by your own admission that is exactly what IS happening.

Tippia wrote:
By the way, having the same tax rate as CONCORD is having a competitive tax rate: it means people in the area have no immediate reason to move back to highsec.


Geez, who’s on first?

If low sec has the same tax rate as high sec , it is not competitive when you take in to consideration the risked involved in operating in low security, even with the increased yields which by the way have not changed. There was no reason to change the PI mechanic if it was just going just keep the same people in low who were already there, come-on.

With this in mind there is no reason for anyone doing PI in High security to take the time to move their operations to Low security. The only thing that changed was that the Major Alliances now have control of a section of the sandbox that used to be on a level playing field. The money that used to go into an ISK sink now goes to the Alliances to make them more money to take more control of low and eventually squeeze everybody but their pets out.



Yields in Low sec have ALWAYS been higher than High Sec, why would they need to change?

Given that you find a corp willing to give you a 10% rate (which is crappier than most are willing to go) your profit margin remains the same, along with your level of risk. What possible reason would you have for moving back to High Sec?

It's becoming more and more obvious you are simply playing this troll out for maximum benefit. I'd suggest you start making at least some token effort to post rationally, or we'll just end up talking around you.

Edit: I missed this tangent of your post earlier.

Quote:
There was no reason to change the PI mechanic if it was just going just keep the same people in low who were already there, come-on.


Because many players WILL be able to find a better tax rate than 10%, or WILL put up their own PCO's... thereby significantly improving their profit margins. Not everyone is shy about working with others.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Myz Toyou
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#124 - 2011-12-09 22:40:16 UTC
Lone Gunman wrote:

I have been playing this game for 9 1/2 years including the Beta and pay the same amount per month to play as you do. I have never told someone else to that the way they play the game is wrong because I play it differently.

Please give me and everyone else here the same consideration.


I´m not saying that they ( you ) can`t play this way, just accept that you maybe in an disadvantage to players who prefer to play EVE like they wanna play it.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#125 - 2011-12-09 22:45:32 UTC
Lone Gunman wrote:
If low sec has the same tax rate as high sec
…then it's competitive in exactly the same way as before the patch. Nothing changes. If you did it before, you can keep doing it and there is no need to move. If anything, you now have a reason not to move and to instead try to get on better terms with the locals to gain access to a better tax rate.
Quote:
With this in mind there is no reason for anyone doing PI in High security to take the time to move their operations to Low security.
…aside from the higher yield, just like before, and aside from the possibility of gaining access to lower taxes, unlike before, and aside from the possibility to build loose alliances (lower-case ‘a’ to distinguish it from the game mechanic).

In other words, even at the same tax rate, it's a far more competitive offer than before.

Your argument is still that “same as before” equates to “worse than before” but you are completely unable to point to a single thing that is actually worse (unsurprisingly, since it's all the same). So yeah, logic — you should try it some time.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#126 - 2011-12-09 22:48:52 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Lone Gunman wrote:
If low sec has the same tax rate as high sec
…then it's competitive in exactly the same way as before the patch. Nothing changes. If you did it before, you can keep doing it and there is no need to move. If anything, you now have a reason not to move and to instead try to get on better terms with the locals to gain access to a better tax rate.
Quote:
With this in mind there is no reason for anyone doing PI in High security to take the time to move their operations to Low security.
…aside from the higher yield, just like before, and aside from the possibility of gaining access to lower taxes, unlike before, and aside from the possibility to build loose alliances (lower-case ‘a’ to distinguish it from the game mechanic).

In other words, even at the same tax rate, it's a far more competitive offer than before.

Your argument is still that “same as before” equates to “worse than before” but you are completely unable to point to a single thing that is actually worse (unsurprisingly, since it's all the same). So yeah, logic — you should try it some time.


Apparently to him anybody that is willing to interact socially on any level, or employ good business sense, is evil.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Pesky LaRue
Mercatoris
#127 - 2011-12-09 22:52:45 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Apparently to him anybody that is willing to interact socially on any level, or employ good business sense, is evil.
well, Asperger's is a cruel, cruel syndrome.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#128 - 2011-12-09 23:00:53 UTC
Pesky LaRue wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Apparently to him anybody that is willing to interact socially on any level, or employ good business sense, is evil.
well, Asperger's is a cruel, cruel syndrome.


Big smileBig smileBig smile

Oops

That is soooo wrong on so many levels.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Pesky LaRue
Mercatoris
#129 - 2011-12-09 23:01:40 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Pesky LaRue wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Apparently to him anybody that is willing to interact socially on any level, or employ good business sense, is evil.
well, Asperger's is a cruel, cruel syndrome.


Big smileBig smileBig smile

Oops

That is soooo wrong on so many levels.
I KNOW, RIGHT?
Lone Gunman
Forhotea Corporation
#130 - 2011-12-10 00:00:22 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Lone Gunman wrote:
If low sec has the same tax rate as high sec
…then it's competitive in exactly the same way as before the patch. Nothing changes. If you did it before, you can keep doing it and there is no need to move. If anything, you now have a reason not to move and to instead try to get on better terms with the locals to gain access to a better tax rate.
Quote:
With this in mind there is no reason for anyone doing PI in High security to take the time to move their operations to Low security.
…aside from the higher yield, just like before, and aside from the possibility of gaining access to lower taxes, unlike before, and aside from the possibility to build loose alliances (lower-case ‘a’ to distinguish it from the game mechanic).

In other words, even at the same tax rate, it's a far more competitive offer than before.

Your argument is still that “same as before” equates to “worse than before” but you are completely unable to point to a single thing that is actually worse (unsurprisingly, since it's all the same). So yeah, logic — you should try it some time.


Apparently to him anybody that is willing to interact socially on any level, or employ good business sense, is evil.


I must starting to be making sense, because you guys are now putting words in my mouth. I never said I was leaving low security and I never said that Low sec PI was worse. I am already there and set up in low and even with the 10% tax the situation is the same for me anyway before the changes.

Although I know of a few corps that have left or just paused their PI operations, I will concede that for Corps doing PI in low nothing has changed.

For those Corps doing PI in High security, there is still no incentive to move to Low security if the tax rate is the same as High security. I noted that the higher Low sec extraction yields are still the same as pre patch and have not increased just to make the point that is yet another reason not to move from High sec to low sec.

The only way that Low is a “more competitive offer” that before is if the tax rate was much lower say 1% to 2%. The only Alliance’s that have rates that low are just looking to gank players.

So I ask again if the situation in Low is the same and there is still no incentive for the High sec PI players to move to low, what did the new PI mechanics accomplish? The answer is the Major Alliances now have control of a section of the EvE , namely low PI that used to be a level playing field.

Now you have to ask yourself , “If PCO’s were such a good idea, why didn’t they put Moongoo into wormholes?” Because CCP knew that the same thing that is happening now in Low PI would have happened in Wormholes. But since you can do High Sec PI it would offset the monopoly the alliance will eventually have.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#131 - 2011-12-10 00:20:52 UTC
Sigh.

Quote:
Although I know of a few corps that have left or just paused their PI operations, I will concede that for Corps doing PI in low nothing has changed.


This is only correct if they hook up with someone offering a 10% tax rate. For everyone else that either makes an arrangement for a lower tax rate, or puts up their own PCO, quite a bit has changed.

Quote:
For those Corps doing PI in High security, there is still no incentive to move to Low security if the tax rate is the same as High security. I noted that the higher Low sec extraction yields are still the same as pre patch and have not increased just to make the point that is yet another reason not to move from High sec to low sec.


Except that (still assuming a 10% tax rate) the incentive (past and present) was more than sufficient to encourage High Sec PI corps to move their operations to Low Sec. You, in fact, are just such an example.

Quote:
The only way that Low is a “more competitive offer” that before is if the tax rate was much lower say 1% to 2%. The only Alliance’s that have rates that low are just looking to gank players.


Any tax rate lower than 10% is a "more competitive offer than before".
While I am sure that many groups will attempt to gank people using their PCO's, I have reason to believe there are many others that prefer income to kill mails. Perhaps you could provide some evidence to support your claim.

Quote:
Now you have to ask yourself , “If PCO’s were such a good idea, why didn’t they put Moongoo into wormholes?” Because CCP knew that the same thing that is happening now in Low PI would have happened in Wormholes. But since you can do High Sec PI it would offset the monopoly the alliance will eventually have.


Actually WH's are quite lucrative enough without moon goo, and is completely unnecessary in WH's.


Come on, you can do better than this. Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Lone Gunman
Forhotea Corporation
#132 - 2011-12-10 01:46:33 UTC
Quote:
This is only correct if they hook up with someone offering a 10% tax rate. For everyone else that either makes an arrangement for a lower tax rate, or puts up their own PCO, quite a bit has changed.


Yes
If they hook up with someone
If they offer them a better tax rate, or
If they put up their own PCO and If they are able to defend it
Then Maybe things MAY have changed, lots of if's I didn't have before.

Quote:
Except that (still assuming a 10% tax rate) the incentive (past and present) was more than sufficient to encourage High Sec PI corps to move their operations to Low Sec. You, in fact, are just such an example.


Except before I was dealing with an NPC, NOW you have no control and are at the mercy of an alliance that can raise lower or cut you off completely, I would never have set up operations under those conditions and neither would any High sec PI.

Quote:
Any tax rate lower than 10% is a "more competitive offer than before".
While I am sure that many groups will attempt to gank people using their PCO's, I have reason to believe there are many others that prefer income to kill mails. Perhaps you could provide some evidence to support your claim.


My point is how much lower it would be to attract new players. A lot lower than the Alliances are willing to go I’ll bet. Just watch the forums specifically Crime and Punishment I'm sure the horror stories will pop up there soon enough.

Quote:
Actually WH's are quite lucrative enough without moon goo, and is completely unnecessary in WH's.


WH didn't always have PI genius, I had a Large Guirista Tower in a secluded Class 5 for 14 months before PI and was only attacked twice. Between Sleeper operations I would have loved to have extracted Dyprosium for over a year, I would have made Billions.

You’re pretty short sighted.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#133 - 2011-12-10 01:56:11 UTC
Lone Gunman wrote:
I must starting to be making sense, because you guys are now putting words in my mouth. I never said I was leaving low security and I never said that Low sec PI was worse.
You mean aside from saying that there is no reason to do lowsec PI rather than highsec.
Quote:
For those Corps doing PI in High security, there is still no incentive to move to Low security
You can repeat this as often as you like, and it won't make you any more correct. You have only managed to continuously prove yourself completely wrong on this particular point, so you can stop contradicting yourself. How about you instead address the points being made?
Quote:
The only way that Low is a “more competitive offer” that before is
…the higher yield (just like before), the possibility of gaining access to lower taxes (unlike before), and the possibility to build loose alliances.
Quote:
So I ask again if the situation in Low is the same
It's not, so the question is pointless.
Thomas Orca
Broski is ded
#134 - 2011-12-10 01:57:49 UTC
Lone Gunman wrote:


WH didn't always have PI genius, I had a Large Guirista Tower in a secluded Class 5 for 14 months before PI and was only attacked twice. Between Sleeper operations I would have loved to have extracted Dyprosium for over a year, I would have made Billions.


So even without PI and moongoo, Wormholes are still lucrative. Thank you for proving the man's point.
Lone Gunman
Forhotea Corporation
#135 - 2011-12-10 02:53:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Lone Gunman
Thomas Orca wrote:
Lone Gunman wrote:


WH didn't always have PI genius, I had a Large Guirista Tower in a secluded Class 5 for 14 months before PI and was only attacked twice. Between Sleeper operations I would have loved to have extracted Dyprosium for over a year, I would have made Billions.


So even without PI and moongoo, Wormholes are still lucrative. Thank you for proving the man's point.


The point wasn't made at all. In Null you have Plex's, Mining, ratting as well as moongoo, WH is lucative but not as lucrative as Null. So your saying that if WH space is valuable enough we should also take moongoo out of Null?

My point was they took moongoo out of WH space for the very reason that what's happening now in Low sec and PI.
Lone Gunman
Forhotea Corporation
#136 - 2011-12-10 03:09:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Lone Gunman
Tippia wrote:
Lone Gunman wrote:
I must starting to be making sense, because you guys are now putting words in my mouth. I never said I was leaving low security and I never said that Low sec PI was worse.
You mean aside from saying that there is no reason to do lowsec PI rather than highsec.
Quote:
For those Corps doing PI in High security, there is still no incentive to move to Low security
You can repeat this as often as you like, and it won't make you any more correct. You have only managed to continuously prove yourself completely wrong on this particular point, so you can stop contradicting yourself. How about you instead address the points being made?
Quote:
The only way that Low is a “more competitive offer” that before is
…the higher yield (just like before), the possibility of gaining access to lower taxes (unlike before), and the possibility to build loose alliances.
Quote:
So I ask again if the situation in Low is the same
It's not, so the question is pointless.


The risk vs. reward is to high.

In order to make this work now you need multiple accounts with Permanent alts in low to reduce the chance of being ganked at a choke point going in and out and access to a jump freighter to get your goods out.

This is way beyond even the small player Corp and now you have the possibly of not being able to get access to your installations.

No one would set up a new installation in low under these conditions.
Ferrenc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#137 - 2011-12-10 03:14:44 UTC
i dont know about this one actually, sure a large corp can slap a ton of customs offices up (at a build cost of about 40mil each i believe) but they're not that hard to kill, and if a corp or even a large alliance spreads themselves out too far in low with customs all over the place, they're gonna be bogged down in timers and repping customs offices all day, that is if people like the OP actually man up and try to take some out, instead of complaining and giving up, they're not outposts ppl, 10mil shields plus about 5mil arm/struct is peanuts, low sec terrorists unite!
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#138 - 2011-12-12 10:38:04 UTC
Lone Gunman wrote:
The risk vs. reward is to high.

In order to make this work now you need multiple accounts with Permanent alts in low to reduce the chance of being ganked at a choke point going in and out and access to a jump freighter to get your goods out.

This is way beyond even the small player Corp and now you have the possibly of not being able to get access to your installations.

No one would set up a new installation in low under these conditions.

Stop speaking for other people.

Thank you.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#139 - 2011-12-12 10:55:51 UTC
Lone Gunman wrote:


The risk vs. reward is to high.

In order to make this work now you need multiple accounts with Permanent alts in low to reduce the chance of being ganked at a choke point going in and out and access to a jump freighter to get your goods out.

This is way beyond even the small player Corp and now you have the possibly of not being able to get access to your installations.

No one would set up a new installation in low under these conditions.


Use a blocade runner. The damn things are as close to impossible to stop as you can get in low sec.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#140 - 2011-12-12 10:56:53 UTC
Lone Gunman wrote:
The risk vs. reward is to high.

In order to make this work now you need multiple accounts with Permanent alts in low to reduce the chance of being ganked at a choke point going in and out and access to a jump freighter to get your goods out.
You keep trying to make this out to be some drastic change before and after the patch. “To make this work now” requires the exact same thing as making it work before, and the risk vs. reward is the same as ever.

Seeing as how you didn't need multiple accounts before, you don't need them now either.
Quote:
No one would set up a new installation in low under these conditions.
…and yet, that's exactly what has happened.