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DDOS Queries

First post
Author
Amhra Rho
Accujac Elimination
#21 - 2014-08-22 16:48:21 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Amhra Rho wrote:
Ok, for all of us here who think that technicalities and word parsing are perfectly valid, as long as it's used in an attempt to make sure you're "right", we have a winner. All congratulations to Tippia! {golf clap}.
Thank you.

Quote:
For those of you that understand that neither Amazon.com nor Microsoft.com have gone done
…well… aside from that outage in 2013 (as part of the larger amazon web service outage). The main site was perhaps not so bad, but the outage as a whole cost them something like $5 million for 45 minutes (but I'll have to check my notes on the specifics and… pff, effort).

Sounds about right. If I were Jeff Bezos of Amazon, I'd certainly sue my ISP to recoup those losses.

There's real reasons why your Eve character doesn't do /dance.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#22 - 2014-08-22 16:50:57 UTC
Amhra Rho wrote:
Sounds about right. If I were Jeff Bezos of Amazon, I'd certainly sue my ISP to recoup those losses.

That would be a pretty silly waste of lawyer fees, seeing as how it's was a fault with Amazon's own servers.
Montey Haul
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2014-08-22 16:54:55 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Amhra Rho wrote:
In order to make your point, you have to play like I didn'I refer to the major Amazon.com and Microsoft.com web portals, find obscure references about Amazon's unimportant cloud platform (not their web portal, which is what my post was all about), and even those references indict Amazon's ISP for cloud services once again instead of Amazon itself.
No, in order to make my point, I simply have to say that “never” is a long time and you shouldn't buy into the company hype. Both microsoft.com and amazon.com have gone down before and since, so “never” is already not true.

I also only have to point out the simple fact that the failed attacks were simply due to not having large enough a net to attack from — now consider what happens if amazon themselves provide the network.

Oh, and amazon's web services are not unimportant — anything that can bring them down can bring any other amazon service down, and if anything, if their web service goes down, it hurts them far more than if consumers can't reach the store for a few minutes.

I know you are an expert on everything but you dive off issue a lot, and not all of the EVE downtimes have been DDoS attacks! A few<-- Few meaning more than a couple; socket closures and downtimes have been due to the servers, routers, and changes that keep trying to fix everything except what is actually broken in the game of EVE. Downtimes have seemed to happen to a lot of folks that have a rl work schedule and when you have a limited time budget to work with, the downtimes have seemed rather excessive lately. Maybe if the DDoS attacks keep happening they can blame them for the spotty service?
Faud
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#24 - 2014-08-22 16:55:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Faud
So is this debate about who's more right about something that happened to other companies, relevant to my question?
IncyWincy Spider
State War Academy
Caldari State
#25 - 2014-08-22 17:00:21 UTC
So is this debate about who's more right about something that happened to other companies, relevant to my question?


No.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#26 - 2014-08-22 17:01:13 UTC
Faud wrote:
So is this debate about who's more right about something that happened to other companies, relevant to my question?

Nah. Big smile

Well, aside from the initial comment that DDoS protection is pretty costly whereas launching a DDoSing is getting cheaper and easier every day. I can't really say whether we've had more attacks this year, but if we have, it don't find it all that surprising.
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2014-08-22 17:02:06 UTC
Miomeifeng Alduin
Lithonauts Inc.
#28 - 2014-08-22 17:03:45 UTC
Amhra Rho wrote:


For those of you that understand that neither Amazon.com nor Microsoft.com have gone done, are highly likely to never go down, and recognize that we're all still waiting for evidence to the contrary from the opposition, join me for a beer.


http://www.scmagazine.com/anonymous-ddos-attack-snowballs-affects-several-microsoft-services/article/322945/
Yep, never gone down :p

(quote from article: On Monday, members of the loose-knit hacker group posted on Pastebin about how a distributed denial-of-service (DDoS) attack targeting Japanese Microsoft websites and servers had gone awry – resulting in several of the technology giant's services going down.)

Enjoy the beer ;)
Amhra Rho
Accujac Elimination
#29 - 2014-08-22 17:08:07 UTC
Montey Haul wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Amhra Rho wrote:
In order to make your point, you have to play like I didn'I refer to the major Amazon.com and Microsoft.com web portals, find obscure references about Amazon's unimportant cloud platform (not their web portal, which is what my post was all about), and even those references indict Amazon's ISP for cloud services once again instead of Amazon itself.
No, in order to make my point, I simply have to say that “never” is a long time and you shouldn't buy into the company hype. Both microsoft.com and amazon.com have gone down before and since, so “never” is already not true.

I also only have to point out the simple fact that the failed attacks were simply due to not having large enough a net to attack from — now consider what happens if amazon themselves provide the network.

Oh, and amazon's web services are not unimportant — anything that can bring them down can bring any other amazon service down, and if anything, if their web service goes down, it hurts them far more than if consumers can't reach the store for a few minutes.

I know you are an expert on everything but you dive off issue a lot, and not all of the EVE downtimes have been DDoS attacks! A few<-- Few meaning more than a couple; socket closures and downtimes have been due to the servers, routers, and changes that keep trying to fix everything except what is actually broken in the game of EVE. Downtimes have seemed to happen to a lot of folks that have a rl work schedule and when you have a limited time budget to work with, the downtimes have seemed rather excessive lately. Maybe if the DDoS attacks keep happening they can blame them for the spotty service?

I'm not sure what your point is, but DDoS attacks against Eve Online resources are not only happening a lot, they're increasing in frequency and duration. Yes, I think it's important to try to do something about it, but I'm pragmatic, and I recognize that it would cost a small fortune.

HellifIknow if I'm an "expert on everything" - I'll let you decide, although I rather doubt it. But I do internet security for a living, and I've been told I'm one of the best there is.

There's real reasons why your Eve character doesn't do /dance.

Amhra Rho
Accujac Elimination
#30 - 2014-08-22 17:11:51 UTC
Miomeifeng Alduin wrote:
Amhra Rho wrote:


For those of you that understand that neither Amazon.com nor Microsoft.com have gone done, are highly likely to never go down, and recognize that we're all still waiting for evidence to the contrary from the opposition, join me for a beer.


http://www.scmagazine.com/anonymous-ddos-attack-snowballs-affects-several-microsoft-services/article/322945/
Yep, never gone down :p

(quote from article: On Monday, members of the loose-knit hacker group posted on Pastebin about how a distributed denial-of-service (DDoS) attack targeting Japanese Microsoft websites and servers had gone awry – resulting in several of the technology giant's services going down.)

Enjoy the beer ;)

Keep trying. I cite that very example earlier in this thread where Microsoft's Japanese ISP was taken out by Anonymous. You got that, right? Not Microsoft - Microsoft's ISP.

More beer . . .

There's real reasons why your Eve character doesn't do /dance.

Carribean Queen
Vadimus Quarrier Works
The Knights of Evermore
#31 - 2014-08-22 18:27:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Carribean Queen
Amhra Rho wrote:
But I do internet security for a living, and I've been told I'm one of the best there is.


bullshiat.

I'm sure your mommy telling you this makes you feel better.

Go back to your basement.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#32 - 2014-08-22 20:57:19 UTC
Amhra Rho wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Amhra Rho wrote:
I found one recent attack against Amazon's ISP lasting about an hour, and one recent attack against the ISP which was hosting Microsoft's Japanese domains accidentally caused by Anonymous protesting Japanese whaling.
So claiming that they never go down is pretty disingenuous.

Word games? Really?

In both cases, their ISPs were successfully attacked. Amazon nor Microsoft are in charge of hardening their respective ISPs. After the security event in Japan, btw, Microsoft changed their ISP.

Tippia cares about semantics. If you don't, don't argue with her. Ever. Its an exercise in futility and one of the most misererable experiences you can have online.

On the other hand if you don't have a problem conceding points about misused words, go for it.

As for DDOS attacks, it sounds like we're fairly in agreement here. They're impossible to prevent completely, but the defenses against them do work and are expensive. In addition, implementing those measures takes time and money. There do seem to have been an increase in effective DDOS attacks on eve servers this year, but I don't actually have numbers behind that.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!

Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2014-08-22 21:02:04 UTC
If they barred the gates
Players themselves would be stuck
Unable to play

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#34 - 2014-08-22 21:03:11 UTC
Amhra Rho wrote:
Sounds about right. If I were Jeff Bezos of Amazon, I'd certainly sue my ISP to recoup those losses.

Then your ISP drops you as at the first opportunity. no ither ISP will pick you up and you're out of a business. Congratulations!
Altessa Post
Midnight special super sexy
#35 - 2014-08-22 21:05:58 UTC
Defending against DDoS is difficult. I got the impression that there were players logged on on yesterday although the log on was unreachable. That would mean that partially the changes they did some years ago help to improve the situation.
I always thought it should be possible to do more. There must be a quicker way to discard and temporarily block connections not originating from an EVE client. Or even better, from an EVE client who did not had a successful log on during the last seven days. When times are tough, work with priorities.

Still, we can do our own part of the security game. How many of you are behind a properly configured firewall? You checked that your router (even if it was supplied by your ISP) is secure? And do not get me started about WinXP downloaded from a warez site.

On the internet, you can be whatever you want to be. It is amazing that so many people chose to be stupid.

Amhra Rho
Accujac Elimination
#36 - 2014-08-22 21:24:36 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Amhra Rho wrote:
Sounds about right. If I were Jeff Bezos of Amazon, I'd certainly sue my ISP to recoup those losses.

Then your ISP drops you as at the first opportunity. no ither ISP will pick you up and you're out of a business. Congratulations!

You been smokin' it. Suuuuuuure some ISP - any ISP - is going to pass up the opportunity to handle the Amazon account. Dream on, yo.

Not enough for me, so I checked it out on LexisNexis. More than predictably, Amazon has sued its various ISPs dozens of times.

There's real reasons why your Eve character doesn't do /dance.

Amhra Rho
Accujac Elimination
#37 - 2014-08-22 21:26:32 UTC
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
Amhra Rho wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Amhra Rho wrote:
I found one recent attack against Amazon's ISP lasting about an hour, and one recent attack against the ISP which was hosting Microsoft's Japanese domains accidentally caused by Anonymous protesting Japanese whaling.
So claiming that they never go down is pretty disingenuous.

Word games? Really?

In both cases, their ISPs were successfully attacked. Amazon nor Microsoft are in charge of hardening their respective ISPs. After the security event in Japan, btw, Microsoft changed their ISP.

Tippia cares about semantics. If you don't, don't argue with her. Ever. Its an exercise in futility and one of the most misererable experiences you can have online.

On the other hand if you don't have a problem conceding points about misused words, go for it.

As for DDOS attacks, it sounds like we're fairly in agreement here. They're impossible to prevent completely, but the defenses against them do work and are expensive. In addition, implementing those measures takes time and money. There do seem to have been an increase in effective DDOS attacks on eve servers this year, but I don't actually have numbers behind that.

Pretty much in agreement on all counts.

There's real reasons why your Eve character doesn't do /dance.

ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#38 - 2014-08-24 00:53:57 UTC
A personal attack post has been removed.

Forum post 4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

ISD Tyrozan

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

@ISDTyrozan | @ISD_CCL

Desimus Maximus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#39 - 2014-08-24 02:13:11 UTC
New round of DDoS incoming.. WoW, LoL, Twitch, and Hearthstone all hit in last 30 min.
Derrick Miles
Death Rabbit Ky Oneida
#40 - 2014-08-24 02:51:42 UTC
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
Amhra Rho wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Amhra Rho wrote:
I found one recent attack against Amazon's ISP lasting about an hour, and one recent attack against the ISP which was hosting Microsoft's Japanese domains accidentally caused by Anonymous protesting Japanese whaling.
So claiming that they never go down is pretty disingenuous.

Word games? Really?

In both cases, their ISPs were successfully attacked. Amazon nor Microsoft are in charge of hardening their respective ISPs. After the security event in Japan, btw, Microsoft changed their ISP.

Tippia cares about semantics. If you don't, don't argue with her. Ever. Its an exercise in futility and one of the most misererable experiences you can have online.

On the other hand if you don't have a problem conceding points about misused words, go for it.

As for DDOS attacks, it sounds like we're fairly in agreement here. They're impossible to prevent completely, but the defenses against them do work and are expensive. In addition, implementing those measures takes time and money. There do seem to have been an increase in effective DDOS attacks on eve servers this year, but I don't actually have numbers behind that.

When you're wrong or losing an argument it's much easier to attack the delivery of a comment rather than it's content.

I think CCP's best defense against the recent DDOSing is probably the boredom of the idiots who are doing it. They'll get tired of picking on the same target and move on.
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