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Gurista Ships
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James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#21 - 2014-08-15 21:57:02 UTC
Nova Alar wrote:
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
This just in. Pirate ships are powerful and worth the ISK and training time needed to make full use of them. News at 11.


No one is comparing them to other frigates (because that is stupid). Compared to all of the other pirate ships the Gurista ships still vastly outperform imo.

Seen some cool fights between a Daredevil and a worm. Daredevil won most of em too.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Ravay Kanjus
Infinity Blue
#22 - 2014-08-15 22:19:18 UTC
Nova Alar wrote:
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
This just in. Pirate ships are powerful and worth the ISK and training time needed to make full use of them. News at 11.


No one is comparing them to other frigates (because that is stupid). Compared to all of the other pirate ships the Gurista ships still vastly outperform imo.



Have you seen how powerful the new Phantasm can be? Incredible speed with an AB, keeping it's sig radius down, and roughly 700 DPS (more or less) in EFT with pulse lasers. "Pulse lasers are short range" yeah, and it's a ship fast enough to close the distance rather effectively. I wager a Phantasm would melt a shield tanked Gila. Assuming the Gila didn't throw out 20 million isk per Augmented Hammerheads.
If you loose to that, you can fit up a faction or deadspace module on your shields or AB for the Phantasm, or just accept that the guy's flying around with incredibly overpriced drones that he'll probably loose at some point, anyway.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2014-08-16 08:08:17 UTC
Gila is also about 700DPS with humble valks. It also, however, has over 80k EHP - what does the phantasm have?
Valkin Mordirc
#24 - 2014-08-18 09:00:12 UTC
A Gila is completely capable of hitting over 1000DPS with augmented drones and overheated rage. How is that not OP? I like using the Gila, is a monster. But I can say it needs nerf.


#DeleteTheWeak
Rose of Shadow
Deep Lovin
#25 - 2014-08-18 13:20:57 UTC
I was looking onto this area of the forum to see if the Pirate ships are worth the ISK (so I can save up for one at some point haha P ) And my question has been answered.

And in response to OP and others:
I think the Pirate ships are more powerful than faction ships because they don't stick to one racial system of ship/tank/weapon but combine the best aspects of different races.

Like the .. eehm.. forgot the name.. Anyway let's say the "Cruor". A Pirate Frig.

Uses Energy Weapons (=Drains cap faster)
And is getting a big boost to the use of energy vamps.

In EFT I noticed that (on all skill V) it can run cap stable with everything activated including armor rep and prop mod (ab).
So obviously I hope to fly one in a couple of months.

Besides that, they just look awesome.

Sorry I kindof went off topic there.

TL;DR
Pirate ships are more powerful then other ships on the same tier.
As it should be in my opinion due to the mixing of racial systems for optimal ships.
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#26 - 2014-08-18 14:41:13 UTC
I think the Gila is very strong, but its not OP.

Unlike the Ishtar it doesn't have the massive projection to push it beyond small gang and while it is certainly powerful its in a good place as a strong kiting boat.

The Worm however is a very strong balance of speed, DPS and tank and has to make very few comprimises to fit an MWD/MSE/Tackle/Double Damage Mod/DCU and LMLs, in a frigate environment that massive flexibility combined with huge DPS makes for a beast of a ship which is, yes, borderline OP.

Also newsflash for nerds, cost has never been and never shall be, a limiting factor.
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#27 - 2014-08-18 16:23:27 UTC
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
A Gila is completely capable of hitting over 1000DPS with augmented drones and overheated rage. How is that not OP? I like using the Gila, is a monster. But I can say it needs nerf.




An orthrus with RLM's and integrated hobgoblins gets 983 DPS with a 5% bonus to light missile damage, goes 4km/s and can get a 1.4k DPS Asb tank. Not to mention pointing at 70+kms or the possibility of a 30km scram.

The pirate ships all stand out as viable options for PVP, the gila just climbed the ladder faster than other ships. People need to step back and look at all of them. I mean the cynabal can get 22km/s with a certain ( non Combat ) fit. they all have something they do well you just have to look for it.

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
Valkin Mordirc
#28 - 2014-08-23 05:57:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Valkin Mordirc
I totally agree, Pirate faction should be REALLY good at it's role. However the Gila/Worm may be a little too good at it.

I say that because.

The Orthrus is nice yeah. but RLML is burst dps, that 983 dps isn't sustained like the Gila can do, also, the Orthrus doesn't get a 66k EHP in the drone bay so your hobs are bye bye quickly if some want to target them, if you're using augmented drones someone might just blow them up because of how much they cost. Honestly the only thing that could kill the Gila is a Orthrus, but only a skilled pilot who knows how to manual pilot. If the pilot is unskilled he's just going to slingshot out of point range, and the gila will warp away.


A Gila can kill a lot of things, with mediocre skill from the pilot. That is why I believe the Gila is overpowered. That's my two cents anyways. =P


EDIT: Also with that fit you gave for the Orthrus, can you mail me ingame the fit? I would love to use it. ^.^
#DeleteTheWeak
Odithia
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2014-08-23 08:16:01 UTC
Christopher Mabata wrote:

An orthrus with RLM's and integrated hobgoblins gets 983 DPS with a 5% bonus to light missile damage, goes 4km/s and can get a 1.4k DPS Asb tank. Not to mention pointing at 70+kms or the possibility of a 30km scram.

Surely that must be before reload, RLML do high burst damage but have a long reload time.

And yea, the only thing more broken than the Gurista ship must be the Mordus.
Nick Starkey
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2014-08-23 08:46:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Nick Starkey
The only nerf guristas ships need is a slight reduction to their drone bays. Right now it doesn't really matter if they have a limited number of drones when they can just re-send 5+ extra flights.

They are on par with other pirate ships of the same class. The worm stands out since the combination of linked+snaked kiting ships and light missiles is long known for being broken in the frigate world, especially if you add a durable ship that actually does damage to that equation.

I've made a signature. I hope you're enjoying it. www.evetrademaster.com - web based asset manager & profit tracker
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2014-08-23 12:02:46 UTC
Valkin Mordirc wrote:

EDIT: Also with that fit you gave for the Orthrus, can you mail me ingame the fit? I would love to use it. ^.^


It'll be a nonsense EFT warrior special.

Fury missiles, everything heated, implants, 4 faction BCU.

All to get to barely more spike DPS than a T2 gila with no heat can basically sustain.


See, that's the thing, the gila numbers quoted here are real - you'll fight these fits. That is why they are so scary.
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2014-08-23 16:41:11 UTC
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
A Gila is completely capable of hitting over 1000DPS with augmented drones and overheated rage. How is that not OP? I like using the Gila, is a monster. But I can say it needs nerf.


- Rage missiles don't apply well to anything.
- 16km range.
- Kin/therm damage, worst damage types in the game. Any Caldari or Gallente T2 cruiser destroys you on this fact alone.
Odithia
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2014-08-23 17:37:30 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
A Gila is completely capable of hitting over 1000DPS with augmented drones and overheated rage. How is that not OP? I like using the Gila, is a monster. But I can say it needs nerf.


- Rage missiles don't apply well to anything.
- 16km range.
- Kin/therm damage, worst damage types in the game. Any Caldari or Gallente T2 cruiser destroys you on this fact alone.

Where do these Kin/Therm damage come from ?
Kyoko Onzo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#34 - 2014-08-23 18:56:45 UTC
Odithia wrote:
Xequecal wrote:
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
A Gila is completely capable of hitting over 1000DPS with augmented drones and overheated rage. How is that not OP? I like using the Gila, is a monster. But I can say it needs nerf.


- Rage missiles don't apply well to anything.
- 16km range.
- Kin/therm damage, worst damage types in the game. Any Caldari or Gallente T2 cruiser destroys you on this fact alone.

Where do these Kin/Therm damage come from ?


The gila's missile dmg bonus is only for kin/therm missiles.
Valkin Mordirc
#35 - 2014-08-23 20:18:28 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
A Gila is completely capable of hitting over 1000DPS with augmented drones and overheated rage. How is that not OP? I like using the Gila, is a monster. But I can say it needs nerf.


- Rage missiles don't apply well to anything.
- 16km range.
- Kin/therm damage, worst damage types in the game. Any Caldari or Gallente T2 cruiser destroys you on this fact alone.


800 dps in drones alone, missiles are the top layer to a very hard punch. Plus you have 66k EHP in the drone bay.


The ship is overpowered. Either the Drone bay needs to be downsized or the bonus needs to be nerfed slightly. Like I said before, a skilled pilot with the right ship can kill a Gila. But a Gila can kill far more with a mediocre pilot. 
#DeleteTheWeak
Odithia
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2014-08-24 08:59:42 UTC
Kyoko Onzo wrote:
Odithia wrote:
Xequecal wrote:
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
A Gila is completely capable of hitting over 1000DPS with augmented drones and overheated rage. How is that not OP? I like using the Gila, is a monster. But I can say it needs nerf.


- Rage missiles don't apply well to anything.
- 16km range.
- Kin/therm damage, worst damage types in the game. Any Caldari or Gallente T2 cruiser destroys you on this fact alone.

Where do these Kin/Therm damage come from ?


The gila's missile dmg bonus is only for kin/therm missiles.

But most of its damage come from the drones.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#37 - 2014-08-24 10:43:44 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
And to think people whined that they were not powerful enough.


That's kinda because the Guristas rework came coupled to the drone rework. With old drone tracking, guristas would be pretty much ****, with the new version though they're godlike.
E Vile
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#38 - 2014-08-24 11:53:31 UTC
Odithia wrote:
Kyoko Onzo wrote:
Odithia wrote:
Xequecal wrote:
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
A Gila is completely capable of hitting over 1000DPS with augmented drones and overheated rage. How is that not OP? I like using the Gila, is a monster. But I can say it needs nerf.


- Rage missiles don't apply well to anything.
- 16km range.
- Kin/therm damage, worst damage types in the game. Any Caldari or Gallente T2 cruiser destroys you on this fact alone.

Where do these Kin/Therm damage come from ?


The gila's missile dmg bonus is only for kin/therm missiles.

But most of its damage come from the drones.

No way do drones get near 1000dps. That number comes because of overheated assaults. The drones themselves are closer to 500-600ish.
With 2 drone mods in the lows I get just over 500dps from drones and 200dps from fury.
700dps is far from overpowered. They only way it hits the 1000dps range is with overheated Assaults and fully fit for damage, meaning you will not have much of a tank and much of your dps has very short range.

Gila is a decent ship, but it's fine balance wise. It's not hard to figure out how to take one down.
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting
Doomheim
#39 - 2014-08-24 14:54:56 UTC  |  Edited by: NoLife NoFriends StillPosting
I wish I could say the same for the Rattlesnake. Sure, the DPS looks good on paper. That is about all it is really good for, making EFT warriors happy. Its strength was its versatility, now gutted via -225m3 reduction in drone bay space, loss of missile velocity bonus and loss of bonuses on light and medium drones, and a specialized damage bonus that only makes it semi-worthwhile vs less than half the NPCs in EVE.
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting
Doomheim
#40 - 2014-08-24 15:01:22 UTC
E Vile wrote:

Gila is a decent ship, but it's fine balance wise. It's not hard to figure out how to take one down.


exactly, seems like too many people can only understand one thing, DPS, not how combat actually can play out. Hence the Rattlesnake nerf. DPS centric thinking at its worst.
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