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CCP Response Regarding SOMER Blink Concerns

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#461 - 2014-08-21 05:37:50 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I have to eat to keep going on fleets with kcolor

Pfff! It's no wonder you guys can never be 1337 PvP with that kind if weakness.
KaRa DaVuT
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#462 - 2014-08-21 05:52:03 UTC
Thank you falcon and CSM

Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. What God desires is in your heart and on your mind... And what you decide to do every day, makes you - not your race - a good man - or not.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#463 - 2014-08-21 06:02:09 UTC
andrev nox, second in command at somerblink, has choice words to say about the eve community: http://www.reddit.com/user/Andrev_Nox

always professional, blinkers

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#464 - 2014-08-21 06:05:35 UTC
Tippia wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I have to eat to keep going on fleets with kcolor

Pfff! It's no wonder you guys can never be 1337 PvP with that kind if weakness.

goons are 420 pvp

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Klyith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#465 - 2014-08-21 06:08:55 UTC
Lord BryanII wrote:
Is there any internal investigation on how a player got to be so cozy with a Vice President? If there would have been proper channels in place, say a relationship manager that knew his history, this may not have happened.

Whats to keep some other player from getting cozy with a Vice President of security? Or a lead game designer that knows when market changes are about to be announced?

How you get cozy with a VP of sales:

"Hi I'm in charge of website X, we have such and such traffic, and I'd like to do a promotion for plex sales. I'll be working with authorized reseller Y on this, see attached documents. This is what I'll be doing for the promotion, blah blah blah."

It's a sales person's job to be cozy with the people who move product.
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#466 - 2014-08-21 06:10:19 UTC
Xander Phoena wrote:
I am late to this particular thread but I wanted to say that I think CCP's (in particular, Falcon and Leeloo's) response to this situation has been exemplary. They have communicated with the community throughout, they have constantly coordinated with CSM9 and the final outcome was entirely justified. There was one particular part of the final statement posted in the OP of this thread I disagreed with though:

CCP Falcon wrote:
CCP was involved in discussions with SOMER Blink to address our concerns about their products, which included several different ideas for promotions, but none of them had been fully authorized by a CCP representative (notably the legal department).

(emphasis mine)

Whilst I believe Somer utilised some pretty vague and tricksy wording in his original proposal and clearly carried out a final execution of the proposal that was very different to that submitted, it is clear that a submitted proposal was given authorisation by a member of CCP. Whether that person had jurisdiction to sign off on it or not isn't down to Somer but the individual themselves.

To be clear, I believe the final judgement made by CCP in regards to Somer was entirely fair but I also believe that that key point in Falcon's OP is incorrect. That shouldn't take away from their superb handling of this situation overall and I hope this is a benchmark and template should a similar situation arise in the future.

I wanted to bring this up because I have been utterly impressed by Falcon and Leeloo's handling of this situation but this one particular point doesn't ring true for me and having seen others point out the fact on this thread, I felt it important that you heard what this particular CSM representative was thinking. A CSM where all 14 individuals think the same thing all of the time is ultimately pointless after all.

I feel this will never be actually covered by CCP.

The simple fact is Somer submitted a plan for approval. Giving CCP the change to raise OBVIOUS questions like "How will you determine your purchase price for the PLEX?", and fully expecting it to go through CCP Legal. It didn't, and the fault of that lies at CCP, NOT with SomerBlink.

Then to go and say it was never given approval.. The emails clearly show it was authorized by CCP. As soon as you greenlight something, that is Approval. Somer saying it was CCP Approved was just saying it had gone through CCP. Which it had.

CCP's own internal mismanagement is where a lot of the fault lies here.

Does Somer deserve a ban for releasing internal correspondence.. Well by the rules they do.. But the OP in this can missrepresent facts already out in the open, it makes me wonder what CCP would have said if it was never released at all?

But we are never gonna get to that.. CCP is going to downplay all their own faults, just as they did with the whole Mittani at Fanfest episode.. Devs on stage beside him, no issues.. Replay it again later in the day.. no issues.. days later drama happens.. OMG we had NO idea and must BAN him NOW.. We would never tolerate that...

SomerBlink made plenty of mistakes.. after the first two episodes of Drama they should have got every little detail vetted, and Demanded it go through CCP Legal.

But had CCP not been totally lacking in internal communication.. In asking the most obvious of questions.. In having some sort of procedures in place for approvals of 3rd party actions.. This whole farce never would have happened. It would have been shot down in the spring when Somer first had the idea.

I am disappointed in CCP. In how they handled their relations with Blink, and even more in how they are handling the aftermath.. whitewashing the facts. At worst they are lying, at best they are being disingenuous and splitting hairs as to what Approved and Authorized means.
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#467 - 2014-08-21 06:26:20 UTC
I'm happy to see that CCP and CSM have managed to get this resolved so quickly. While it always sucks to see it coming to actions like this I am glad that a stance was taken and violators punished properly (unless there's shady stuff that we don't know of... hope not [*not fully recovered my bitterness from last year]).

Thank you for the update.

/c

★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★

Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Twitter @ChribbaVeldspar
Josef Djugashvilis
#468 - 2014-08-21 06:39:39 UTC
We have all watch CCP Falcon change before our very eyes from a man into a legend.

He, and all the others from CCP, the CSM and the many players who have brought insight into the whole sorry affair, have handled this issue very well and are a credit to the game.

Next big scandal please.

This is not a signature.
Prince Kobol
#469 - 2014-08-21 06:40:52 UTC
Sniper Smith wrote:
Xander Phoena wrote:
I am late to this particular thread but I wanted to say that I think CCP's (in particular, Falcon and Leeloo's) response to this situation has been exemplary. They have communicated with the community throughout, they have constantly coordinated with CSM9 and the final outcome was entirely justified. There was one particular part of the final statement posted in the OP of this thread I disagreed with though:

CCP Falcon wrote:
CCP was involved in discussions with SOMER Blink to address our concerns about their products, which included several different ideas for promotions, but none of them had been fully authorized by a CCP representative (notably the legal department).

(emphasis mine)

Whilst I believe Somer utilised some pretty vague and tricksy wording in his original proposal and clearly carried out a final execution of the proposal that was very different to that submitted, it is clear that a submitted proposal was given authorisation by a member of CCP. Whether that person had jurisdiction to sign off on it or not isn't down to Somer but the individual themselves.

To be clear, I believe the final judgement made by CCP in regards to Somer was entirely fair but I also believe that that key point in Falcon's OP is incorrect. That shouldn't take away from their superb handling of this situation overall and I hope this is a benchmark and template should a similar situation arise in the future.

I wanted to bring this up because I have been utterly impressed by Falcon and Leeloo's handling of this situation but this one particular point doesn't ring true for me and having seen others point out the fact on this thread, I felt it important that you heard what this particular CSM representative was thinking. A CSM where all 14 individuals think the same thing all of the time is ultimately pointless after all.

I feel this will never be actually covered by CCP.

The simple fact is Somer submitted a plan for approval. Giving CCP the change to raise OBVIOUS questions like "How will you determine your purchase price for the PLEX?", and fully expecting it to go through CCP Legal. It didn't, and the fault of that lies at CCP, NOT with SomerBlink.

Then to go and say it was never given approval.. The emails clearly show it was authorized by CCP. As soon as you greenlight something, that is Approval. Somer saying it was CCP Approved was just saying it had gone through CCP. Which it had.

CCP's own internal mismanagement is where a lot of the fault lies here.

Does Somer deserve a ban for releasing internal correspondence.. Well by the rules they do.. But the OP in this can missrepresent facts already out in the open, it makes me wonder what CCP would have said if it was never released at all?

But we are never gonna get to that.. CCP is going to downplay all their own faults, just as they did with the whole Mittani at Fanfest episode.. Devs on stage beside him, no issues.. Replay it again later in the day.. no issues.. days later drama happens.. OMG we had NO idea and must BAN him NOW.. We would never tolerate that...

SomerBlink made plenty of mistakes.. after the first two episodes of Drama they should have got every little detail vetted, and Demanded it go through CCP Legal.

But had CCP not been totally lacking in internal communication.. In asking the most obvious of questions.. In having some sort of procedures in place for approvals of 3rd party actions.. This whole farce never would have happened. It would have been shot down in the spring when Somer first had the idea.

I am disappointed in CCP. In how they handled their relations with Blink, and even more in how they are handling the aftermath.. whitewashing the facts. At worst they are lying, at best they are being disingenuous and splitting hairs as to what Approved and Authorized means.


I agree a lot with this post.

Did Somer deserved to ban banned, Yes, absolutely. He broke the EULA/TOS when he posted private conversions. Was his scheme a form of RMT, again yes.

However it should of never gotten to the this stage. CCP should of shot this down the very second he contacted them about this scheme.


Jack Breacher
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#470 - 2014-08-21 06:50:00 UTC
Dont tell me that youve banned somer completely, im still waiting for my damnation. I wasted about 30bil in somer and im not gonna get a penny, how sad :/
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#471 - 2014-08-21 07:26:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
crimsonshank wrote:
KayleInara wrote:
crimsonshank wrote:
Video of CCP - Soundwave at Fanfest telling the Audience to get in you need to be a member of SA to join goons proving they are RMTing and need to be banned swiftly and justly like Somer

http://youtu.be/j1sdTzj9iac?t=4m55s


You really have no idea what RMT is do you?



To join SA you pay $10, clearly stated you need to join SA in the video to join goons, correct me if I am wrong.
If you pay :tenbux: to join the SA forums with the sole objective of joining Goons you're in for some disappointment

They don't like Join4Guilds, they might let you into Goons, but only so that they can steal your stuff, violate your corpsicle and then kick you, because you thought you could buy your way in.

Also that video is so old that CCP Soundwaffe was still a mere player and Velociraptors were in the audience.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Arrendis
TK Corp
#472 - 2014-08-21 07:41:14 UTC
Ohkewl wrote:
Also rather funny to see all the hate here towards Somer from all the guys that paid $10 to get into a corp with a 120% SRP program.


As a matter of fact, joining SA in order to get into Waffe or CONDI is one of the best ways to ensure you never will.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#473 - 2014-08-21 07:44:35 UTC
Trisha Landers wrote:
CCP should ban corps that restrict membership based on nationality. It costs money to become a citizen of another nation just to be allowed to join a corp.

You don't join SA in order to join Goons. That will likely get you podded and kicked from Goons.

You join Goons if you're already a member of SA and also play EVE. Or you can just skip joining SA and pay an in-game referral fee to one of the many trustworthy Goonswarm recruitment officers. (basically any member of Goonswarm. They're all pretty stand up fellows I hear.)


I suggest Scooter McCabe. I hear that guy knows what's what.
KaRa DaVuT
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#474 - 2014-08-21 07:46:58 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Derrick Miles wrote:
CCP Falcon, is there any chance this might inspire a clearer definition of the third party rules and guidelines going forward? As it stands it seems that they are spread all over the place in articles, blogs, and years of forum posts. A big incident like this one can be kind of intimidating for first-time developers when the rules aren't exactly clearly laid out, especially when the result is a ban and the exact cause of the ban is unknown.


This is still to be determined, but something that I'll be pushing for.

Smile



Its needed to be clarified If you want to prevent things like that in future.

But based on your dedication and hard work, Im sure you will also accomplish that task

Good work bro. Thanks

Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. What God desires is in your heart and on your mind... And what you decide to do every day, makes you - not your race - a good man - or not.
Ynef
Skill Extraction Slavery
#475 - 2014-08-21 07:50:28 UTC
Justice has been done. I'm a happy subscriber.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#476 - 2014-08-21 07:51:16 UTC
Andski wrote:
let's continue this game of making absurd conclusions from eula snippets


Oooh! I got one. It's recycled from something I pointed out on TMC, but I think it still qualifies!

The EULA says you can't have an EVE account if you're acting on behalf of a business. Whenever you're at work, you're a representative of your employer. This mostly comes up in the service industries (waiters, mechanics, etc), but it's been legally upheld even for factory work etc. As a representative of your employer, you're acting on their behalf, even if it's just pushing the button on a copper-wire spooler.

Thus, IF YOU HAVE A JOB, YOU CANNOT HAVE AN EVE ACCOUNT!

ZOMG!

ok, let's see people get more absurd than that one.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#477 - 2014-08-21 07:56:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Arrendis wrote:
Andski wrote:
let's continue this game of making absurd conclusions from eula snippets


Oooh! I got one. It's recycled from something I pointed out on TMC, but I think it still qualifies!

The EULA says you can't have an EVE account if you're acting on behalf of a business. Whenever you're at work, you're a representative of your employer. This mostly comes up in the service industries (waiters, mechanics, etc), but it's been legally upheld even for factory work etc. As a representative of your employer, you're acting on their behalf, even if it's just pushing the button on a copper-wire spooler.

Thus, IF YOU HAVE A JOB, YOU CANNOT HAVE AN EVE ACCOUNT!

ZOMG!

ok, let's see people get more absurd than that one.
I've played Eve at work, as it was during working hours and I was being paid for my presence, I was technically a representative of my employer.

I should be banned Shocked

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
KaRa DaVuT
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#478 - 2014-08-21 08:10:23 UTC  |  Edited by: KaRa DaVuT
Arrendis wrote:
Andski wrote:
let's continue this game of making absurd conclusions from eula snippets


Oooh! I got one. It's recycled from something I pointed out on TMC, but I think it still qualifies!

The EULA says you can't have an EVE account if you're acting on behalf of a business. Whenever you're at work, you're a representative of your employer. This mostly comes up in the service industries (waiters, mechanics, etc), but it's been legally upheld even for factory work etc. As a representative of your employer, you're acting on their behalf, even if it's just pushing the button on a copper-wire spooler.

Thus, IF YOU HAVE A JOB, YOU CANNOT HAVE AN EVE ACCOUNT!

ZOMG!

ok, let's see people get more absurd than that one.


Let me try:

EULA says you can't share your account with anyone else.

but I know people plays with their wife/fiance on a same account with differenc chars like she mining in osmon and it generally ends with her being ganked and she yells in local etc etc...

So you share your account with "someone" even if its your wife + they are working as home office so, its alsu against the EULA fact which you stated. So they broke 2 EULA at once

IF YOU ARE MARRIED AND WORKING WITH YOUR WIFE AS HOME OFFICE AND YOUR WIFE ALSO LOVES EVE YOU CAN'T HAVE AN EVE ACCOUNT!

Beat me..

Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. What God desires is in your heart and on your mind... And what you decide to do every day, makes you - not your race - a good man - or not.
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#479 - 2014-08-21 08:24:45 UTC
Jack Breacher wrote:
Dont tell me that youve banned somer completely, im still waiting for my damnation. I wasted about 30bil in somer and im not gonna get a penny, how sad :/


oh my... I just realized that Jita gained another scam meme. Fie on you CCP!
Big Lynx
#480 - 2014-08-21 08:25:54 UTC
Madora Galtaki wrote:
I know there are a lot of players out there who are saying good riddance to SomerBlink, but there are also a great many of us who are greatly saddened in saying goodbye to Somer.

Playing on SomerBlink is the biggest reason I have maintained an active account for the past year. In the five years that I've been playing Eve, my account has had a lot of sporadic inactive time. Blink has given me a reason to keep my account active even when I needed to take a break from Eve. I never participated in the recent PLEX buying service, but I enjoyed playing blinks and promos and participating in celebration events. I personally know a person whose account was inactive for nearly two years, had no intention of ever returning to Eve, and is only active now because of SomerBlink and his interest in playing the raffles with in-game currency.

In answer to those who doubt that Eve players with a Blink Credit balance will ever see that ISK again, I have already been issued a deposit from Blink's corporate account in game. I'm sure there are a lot of players to compensate.

I can't say I'm dissatisfied with the way CCP has handled the situation. As a player with an invested interest in Blink, I am appreciative of the public updates made by CCP.

Goodbye Somer, I will greatly miss you. Sad


The reason i have an active account is internet spaceships. Id recommend you to play online poker in the future.