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Gate camping: maybe the game shouldn't encourage it

Author
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2014-08-18 18:25:50 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
James Baboli wrote:
I would like to see gate camping get harder, in direct response to how high the sec is.
Proposed mechanisms:

  1. Increase sentry gun damage so that perma-tanking gate guns becomes a moderate challenge again.
  2. slightly increase how far from the gate it spits you out, so someone on the gate in an unbonused ship can't land a scram, only a point
  3. Instant gate gun response in 1.0, and scale down to current times in 0.5 and below.
  4. slight increase in the number of connections between regions such that there are 2 or 3 major choke points one can chose between major hubs (looking at you niarja).


id like to see bubbles in highsec :D

You mean you would like to see people get randomly concorded for forgetting they left a bubble somewhere and another guy warped in it?

I like that idea.
Would be a bit annoying though for having to slowboat some fits out though. Then again the random aggro would see the bubble vanish soon enough. Or my firepower as I just knock it out due to annoyance

This collection of space pixels has attracted my ire by inconveniencing me!
It must die to a furious flurry of kinetic fury missiles while I browse furry pictures until my eyes go blurry!


Personally though, I would like it if gates could be activated at the same distance they spat you out at.
Would solve the camping issue fast.
Its not a camp any more, its a pursuit!
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#22 - 2014-08-18 18:51:39 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
I can't say I am aware of anyone suggesting this in the past, but why not add in NPC gate usage?

Have it run the full range of activity, the NPC ships or convoy leaves a station, warps to a gate, jumps through to the other side, and attempts to continue to their destination.

As a convoy, it could even follow a schedule, or be random.

Players could try to use these as cover for their own actions, or try to ambush them.

Gate camps would see more activity, and could draw in a more mixed grouping of PvE & PvP interests.

I think this idea is fantastic. We see NPC merchants, faction police, and even pirates (depending on your location) on stations and on gates, but never going through them. Do they live forever in a single system? Or do they rely on a private network of NPC jump bridges?

We already have convoys that spawn at stations, let's have them go somewhere and do something.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs

DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#23 - 2014-08-18 19:58:34 UTC
I have noticed less gate camps in recent years. I've been here for 10 years, and it used to be that nearly every ls border system you'd find a GC, but recently I have been in and out of systems that in the pasy used to be heavily camped, now not so much

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#24 - 2014-08-19 00:39:20 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
I have noticed less gate camps in recent years. I've been here for 10 years, and it used to be that nearly every ls border system you'd find a GC, but recently I have been in and out of systems that in the pasy used to be heavily camped, now not so much


Gate camping is more of a high sec activity nowadays. You don't get as many people fighting back and completely wiping the fleet, it's almost never a trap, occasionally you'll get to shoot a shiny freighter and if there aren't enough WT's online you can go play station games in Jita and wait for one of them to slip up and undock.

But to get back on topic....

I need gate camps....

I do a lot of exploration. With the changes to loot spew it has become as dull as weathered dog dung. There is no confrontation or conflict, and no risk. You don't get to chase people out of sites anymore because they don't spend hardly any time at all grabbing the loot, and if they're not hacking a can and your name is in local they're cloaked. The only time I get to have any fun is when I moonwalk out of a gate camp and blow some raspberries in local.

It's getting hard to find decent camps that make this any fun, I might add. I've been changing my routes to visit higher traffic areas (which is anathema to exploration) to see if this changes.

I need a new Eve hobby.... I won this one....

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.

Foxstar Damaskeenus
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2014-08-19 06:36:45 UTC
I think the original poster missed the point of Eve Online being an Online game. Thus your in game survival depends somewhat on using social connections to other players and your/ others corporation for intel and security.

Have someone scout for ........ just forget it, this whole thread is ******* stupid and there is a million other things that need to be worked on. Oops

Believe a slightly veteran player that there are ways around gate camps and everything is working as intended.

"[this thread] is a cesspit of trolling and flaming" ISD Buldath

Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#26 - 2014-08-19 07:32:25 UTC
Foxstar Damaskeenus wrote:

Believe a slightly veteran player that there are ways around gate camps and everything is working as intended.



The somewhat recent inty changes are nice for this. And ccp fixed warp speed finally to make the rigs worth running.

I have a zip around inty....not saying its instalock proof since haven't hammered the math out hard for that. But....it have to be a no bs pro instalock camp to catch. And if they follow I really like my odds with the warp rigs of beating them there too.


Empire side, I personally have always been a big fan of frigate (Pirate like dramiel, sb's) moves when the cargo needed to get to point B in one piece. I moved bpo's (to include t2's I have owned in the past) and high value mods this way. Needed more room, transports.


Moving the bling bS around empire....it was travel fit t2 and good mods packed in the above frigate or transport. Bit longer to change mission homes since 2 runs....but ship and mods made it one piece. At various points....mods worth more than ship by far. Rather lose the 800 mil BS if it happened on a camp and not the 800 mil bs + 800 mil fittings.

Welcome to mmo's I say...you play around other play. Want to play it your way everyday....single player games say hi my take on it.

Matius Udan
Padecains Exploration and Recon Inc
#27 - 2014-08-19 11:56:07 UTC
Adobe Raide wrote:

It serves no purpose but to give talentless people with too much time on their hands easy kills.


Getting caught at gate camps too much?
How else do the talentless people join in?
Elisiist Aldent
Vertex Armada
No Forks Given
#28 - 2014-08-19 14:28:24 UTC
Here's a trick to surviving many gate camps. (Not all, but probably most)

Learn to Travel Fit! Or Scout!

I used to run a lot of escalations in low sec with a drake. Ran into a few gate camps along the way. But with a full rack of stabs and no scripted HICs. . I warped right out. Mobile depot has made this too easy.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#29 - 2014-08-19 14:40:24 UTC
Adobe Raide wrote:
All it takes to gate camp is a ship, no scruples and a lot of time. An astonishing number of people like to gate camp. Its almost impossible to avoid them, even a cloaked ship can easily be jammed by proximity to the crud gate campers deliberately throw out for just that purpose.

It serves no purpose but to give talentless people with too much time on their hands easy kills.

I suggest the game should not be designed to penalize people for moving through gates. I point out that perhaps the reason so many people in this game huddle up in whatever star system they've managed to feel secure in (frequently high sec) is because there are so many gate camping people in this game.

I suggest the game be designed so that nothing can attack anything near a gate or it will be vaporized by collateral warp energy. Even in lowsec or nullsec. Anywhere in regular space. Chalk it up to physics.


This amounts to "wahh, CCP play the game for me, it's too hard".

The game gives players 100s of ways to avoid gate camps. MWD+cloak trick, nullified ships (to avoid bubbles), ships that can warp cloaked. wormholes that let you bypass gates, jump capable ships that let you bypass gates, friends (not included with your download, you gotta make those yourself, but very useful in breaking gate camps) and other things. Asking CCP to fix something that you giving 5 seconds of thought could fix for yourself is just lazy.
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#30 - 2014-08-19 14:56:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Fer'isam K'ahn
Well, not if gate campers get their wish ...

Warp disruptor bubble (got that)
Web bubble (suggested)
Scram bubble (coming?)
AoE damage bubble (you bet its coming)

... just look at the first page suggestions and people supporting it and you might faint for shock of other ppls ignorance °°

Make yourself heard. Not giving this thread vilidity but saying some things should be looked at that support the lazies on the oither side too.
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#31 - 2014-08-19 15:15:01 UTC
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:
Well, not if gate campers get their wish ...

Warp disruptor bubble (got that)
Web bubble (suggested)

But unlikely to be added due to severe balance issues
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:
Scram bubble (coming?)

Doubtful, again for balance issues.
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:
AoE damage bubble (you bet its coming)

Is it? Could you post where you read this please? It would seem to me pretty unlikely that this would be added to the game.

Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:
... just look at the first page suggestions and people supporting it and you might faint for shock of other ppls ignorance °°

Make yourself heard. Not giving this thread vilidity but saying some things should be looked at that support the lazies on the oither side too.

The problem with making changes so lazy people don't have to think is that we'll end up with WOW. That game requires almost no thought and is entirely designed for the mentally lazy. Personally, I play EVE *because* it requires thought. Dumbing it down for the lazies is pretty much utterly against what a lot of players want for the game.

As Jen said, there are already plenty of ways around gate camps. I've lost a 500mill isk ship to a gate camp recently and you know what? It was my own damned fault and I learned something from it. Perhaps people should see it as a learning exercise rather than just seeing it as annoying and/or unfair.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#32 - 2014-08-19 15:36:02 UTC
Tchulen wrote:
The problem with making changes so lazy people don't have to think is that we'll end up with WOW. That game requires almost no thought and is entirely designed for the mentally lazy. Personally, I play EVE *because* it requires thought. Dumbing it down for the lazies is pretty much utterly against what a lot of players want for the game.

As Jen said, there are already plenty of ways around gate camps. I've lost a 500mill isk ship to a gate camp recently and you know what? It was my own damned fault and I learned something from it. Perhaps people should see it as a learning exercise rather than just seeing it as annoying and/or unfair.


THIS is something I agree with.

I have played my share of MMO, MMORPG, etc... and one common theme has proven true in each:

When the developers start catering to players, making things easier, it begins to go downhill.

Oh, sure, at first it makes the game easier to play, and that does BRIEFLY increase activity.
But, the only reason this happens is that the memory of the previous effort is still fresh in the minds of the players, and they have still attached this past effort to the results they now get.

Once that novelty wears off, they realize the game is no longer challenging, and as a result, no longer interesting to play.

We may sometimes think we want shortcuts, but the truth is you get out of a game what you put into it, and a game that asks nothing gives exactly that in return for playing it.
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#33 - 2014-08-19 15:49:04 UTC
Tchulen wrote:
.... As Jen said, there are already plenty of ways around gate camps. I've lost a 500mill isk ship to a gate camp recently and you know what? It was my own damned fault and I learned something from it. Perhaps people should see it as a learning exercise rather than just seeing it as annoying and/or unfair.

I wasn't advertising for making things easier for gate runners, nor gate campers, I was pointing out that this is not a one sided issues and that there are incredibly lazy and ignorant people on both sides.

And those were suggestions I reffered to with a hint of sarcasm taking it a step further. Nerfing gate camps for the lazy is a as bad as nerfing running them in favor of the campers (which can be seen in the stupid web bubble suggestion).

Someone putting in the effort of either side should have a clear advantage over those who don't in the opposition. So no afk avoidance for anyone, campers and runners.

Hope I got my opinion across this time.


Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#34 - 2014-08-19 18:47:04 UTC
Remove gate camps? No way

Gate camping is emergent game play, it works as intended. Therefore it should stay
You really didnt provide any reason for it NOT TO Stay just kinda got mad about the whole concept and ranted about it a bit.

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Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#35 - 2014-08-19 18:49:00 UTC
Elisiist Aldent wrote:
Here's a trick to surviving many gate camps. (Not all, but probably most)

Learn to Travel Fit! Or Scout!

I used to run a lot of escalations in low sec with a drake. Ran into a few gate camps along the way. But with a full rack of stabs and no scripted HICs. . I warped right out. Mobile depot has made this too easy.


I actually trained into a hic specifically because I missed a stabbed navy drake on a camp once. Havent missed one since
Twisted

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

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Airto TLA
Acorn's Wonder Bars
#36 - 2014-08-19 19:40:26 UTC
Gate camping should be removed from the game ... as soon as anyone can figure out how to replace as one of the few pvp situations that happen more than every great once in a while and give low sec/null sec residents a way to hold enemies out of their territory.
Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2014-08-19 20:42:06 UTC
You know what would be cool? To build off another suggestion. But as for convoys, I think we should introduce a stronger NPC presence in the market.

Now now, cool your jets, it will not involve much of anything that players truely need. But what if NPCs had demands, Food, waters, colonies, some additional made up mineral types that players don't use in productions at all. And that A, either other players can trade with them for a starting cash sum, but at the same time, other npc traders will attempt to supply what ever demand is required... So what if those convoy ships, loaded with that supply traveled the universe, using the gates, and adding activity? They can travel around in both high sec, low sec, and null sec on where they are demanded. Players in turn can target them and attempt to gank them (mainly focused on low and null sec, but hey, if you don't fear the rather of concord, do the same in high sec as well!) and see what they drop! Maybe use to trade for starting cash.

I do say though, is don't make this too profitable, make it so that they break even/lose a little/gain a little. If they play the markets correctly, and this can be used as a tool to help players ease into the markets. :)

Also.... If you scream that this is a bad idea. You are most likely will be correct, as I literally just pulled this idea out of my ass, without putting to much thought into it XD

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."

Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#38 - 2014-08-20 01:23:41 UTC
Airto TLA wrote:
Gate camping should be removed from the game ... as soon as anyone can figure out how to replace as one of the few pvp situations that happen more than every great once in a while and give low sec/null sec residents a way to hold enemies out of their territory.


there has been the (bad) idea of give sov holders guns on the gate. Like I said though, bad idea lol.


game has the great feature called map, even gives stats. Obviously if a system has a fair number of ship kills with a decent amount of poddings the past hour....something is up in that system. gate camp should be top of list of possibilities. Solution....find a cleaner route. Second solution: bring a ship that can burn camps decent. Third solution, camp breaking fleet if you have intel on it
Katerin Archer
Total.
#39 - 2014-08-20 21:55:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Katerin Archer
Gate camping brings some really good fights sometimes, when people having mind similar to OP, but combined with some balls, come and attempt to kill campers.

To OP: seriously, train a Loki alt w/ cov cyno and a Panther. And grow up some balls, this is not "Hello Kitty in Space".
Kieron Krodmandouin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2014-08-21 00:01:32 UTC
I think a lot of players are unaware how to use the map to know in advance that a system is camped, how to use those free seconds of cloak if caught by surprise, and how to use inattentive drake pilots to slip by safely if you don't think you can make it. All the tools to fly safely are there.
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