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[Hyperion] Nestor Tweaks

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Author
Momiji Sakora
Omni Galactic
Central Omni Galactic Group
#361 - 2014-08-20 11:12:52 UTC
I'm certainly not complaining about the changes you've made etc, some of them I really do welcome, and I'm very glad you're taking a look at it again.

I find the cargospace of the Nestor a bit lackluster when compared to the huge bay space of the Stratios. (I'd love to have a rig or module that converted drone space to cargo space...)

I would also like to add that I've heard of lots of cases of the current Nestor being used as a remote shield repair ship in Wormholes. A lot of people are wanting a combat ship to replace their Tengus etc, but so many seem to forget it's a support/exploration ship at heart. And I love using it in those roles :)

Good work Fozzie!
Lugh Crow-Slave
#362 - 2014-08-20 11:14:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Conjaq wrote:





And high-sec wars, why even balance around that? .. Seriously.



Because there are a lot of people involved in HS wars and slowcatting Nestors siting on the undock would be broken if you can't bump them off
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#363 - 2014-08-20 11:15:23 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey guys, after some more feedback from you guys we have a couple more additions to the changes to announce.

We're going to increase the sensor strength of the Nestor a bit to better reflect its role as a high-tech support vessel.

We're also going to be decreasing the mass of the ship quite a bit, down to 20m kg. This will help keep the Nestor balanced for use in highsec wars as it will be easier to bump away from the safety of stations, and has the added benefit of making the Nestor the first battleship that can jump into C1 wormholes. We'll be decreasing the base speed and inertia modifier at the same time, but the end result is that the Nestor will be a bit more agile and will be a bit faster than before with its prop mod running.

The new changes are:

Mass: 20,000,000 (-36,000,000)
Inertia: 0.5 (+0.32)
Velocity: 65 (-27)
Magnetometric Sensor Strength: 30 (+6)


this is just ridiculous.....

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#364 - 2014-08-20 11:17:18 UTC
Still doesn't really make me want to use the ship, and I think a lot of people would probably agree with me.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#365 - 2014-08-20 11:18:48 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey guys, after some more feedback from you guys we have a couple more additions to the changes to announce.

We're going to increase the sensor strength of the Nestor a bit to better reflect its role as a high-tech support vessel.

We're also going to be decreasing the mass of the ship quite a bit, down to 20m kg. This will help keep the Nestor balanced for use in highsec wars as it will be easier to bump away from the safety of stations, and has the added benefit of making the Nestor the first battleship that can jump into C1 wormholes. We'll be decreasing the base speed and inertia modifier at the same time, but the end result is that the Nestor will be a bit more agile and will be a bit faster than before with its prop mod running.

The new changes are:

Mass: 20,000,000 (-36,000,000)
Inertia: 0.5 (+0.32)
Velocity: 65 (-27)
Magnetometric Sensor Strength: 30 (+6)



i mean come on ..... talk about breaking things .. square pegs round holes .... its mass was already very low ... its now basically a triple plated harbinger ... you can't possibly tell me this makes sense???

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#366 - 2014-08-20 11:26:06 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey guys, after some more feedback from you guys we have a couple more additions to the changes to announce.

We're going to increase the sensor strength of the Nestor a bit to better reflect its role as a high-tech support vessel.

We're also going to be decreasing the mass of the ship quite a bit, down to 20m kg. This will help keep the Nestor balanced for use in highsec wars as it will be easier to bump away from the safety of stations, and has the added benefit of making the Nestor the first battleship that can jump into C1 wormholes. We'll be decreasing the base speed and inertia modifier at the same time, but the end result is that the Nestor will be a bit more agile and will be a bit faster than before with its prop mod running.

The new changes are:

Mass: 20,000,000 (-36,000,000)
Inertia: 0.5 (+0.32)
Velocity: 65 (-27)
Magnetometric Sensor Strength: 30 (+6)



This isn't enough to make the ship appealing overall (it needs more damage output, or just *something* else).

However, it does make it significantly harder to scan down - it's harder to scan down now than a Myrmidon, which is an overall improvement to its usefulness at some tasks.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#367 - 2014-08-20 11:26:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Spugg Galdon
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey guys, after some more feedback from you guys we have a couple more additions to the changes to announce.

We're going to increase the sensor strength of the Nestor a bit to better reflect its role as a high-tech support vessel.

We're also going to be decreasing the mass of the ship quite a bit, down to 20m kg. This will help keep the Nestor balanced for use in highsec wars as it will be easier to bump away from the safety of stations, and has the added benefit of making the Nestor the first battleship that can jump into C1 wormholes. We'll be decreasing the base speed and inertia modifier at the same time, but the end result is that the Nestor will be a bit more agile and will be a bit faster than before with its prop mod running.

The new changes are:

Mass: 20,000,000 (-36,000,000)
Inertia: 0.5 (+0.32)
Velocity: 65 (-27)
Magnetometric Sensor Strength: 30 (+6)



I appreciate all of your work Fozzie, I really do. I just feel that with the Nestor you're still just dancing around the issue with your eyes closed.

I am getting the impression that your hands might be a little tied when it comes to this ship as it appears you want to keep this role or you're being told to keep it. Most of the community are asking for a rethink of the ships role and to move away from the "jack of all trades" design. I am in that group myself.

I do believe that this ship should be the T1 BLOPs ship and should lose the RR abilities. What this ship is trying to do is too much in one hull and it shows. I think it would be amazing if the ship retained it's SMA though as that could be it's "quirk" in the BLOPs set.

You could create a BC that could be the RR support ship within this line up and even toy with the idea of it being covert. It wouldn't have more offensive capabilites than a Stratios, it would simply just have more tank, capacitor and sensor strength and be slower. So a covert BC with RR abilities wouldn't be a big deal. A BC also has the better lock time and has enough mobility to do the job.

I would also like you to consider doubling the range of ALL remote rep/cap transfer modules and halving the bonuses on the ships that have range bonuses. Currently using RR mods on anything without a range bonus is painful. This way you could at least drop one of the bonuses of the Nestor
Conjaq
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#368 - 2014-08-20 11:28:41 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Conjaq wrote:





And high-sec wars, why even balance around that? .. Seriously.



Because there are a lot of people involved in HS wars and slowcatting Nestors siting on the undock would be broken if you can't bump them off



Still high-sec "wars" should never be a balance point.

Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#369 - 2014-08-20 11:30:56 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey guys, after some more feedback from you guys we have a couple more additions to the changes to announce.

We're going to increase the sensor strength of the Nestor a bit to better reflect its role as a high-tech support vessel.

We're also going to be decreasing the mass of the ship quite a bit, down to 20m kg. This will help keep the Nestor balanced for use in highsec wars as it will be easier to bump away from the safety of stations, and has the added benefit of making the Nestor the first battleship that can jump into C1 wormholes. We'll be decreasing the base speed and inertia modifier at the same time, but the end result is that the Nestor will be a bit more agile and will be a bit faster than before with its prop mod running.

The new changes are:

Mass: 20,000,000 (-36,000,000)
Inertia: 0.5 (+0.32)
Velocity: 65 (-27)
Magnetometric Sensor Strength: 30 (+6)



Shocked That is crazy! ... but i like it Big smile

If i haven't got bored with the lack of new things to do in wormhole space in a month or so, I might buy one.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#370 - 2014-08-20 11:32:48 UTC
Conjaq wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Conjaq wrote:


And high-sec wars, why even balance around that? .. Seriously.



Because there are a lot of people involved in HS wars and slowcatting Nestors siting on the undock would be broken if you can't bump them off



Still high-sec "wars" should never be a balance point.






And why exactly is that? Part of what makes balancing so hard is that things need to be balanced in all places they are used.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#371 - 2014-08-20 11:37:45 UTC
Conjaq wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Conjaq wrote:





And high-sec wars, why even balance around that? .. Seriously.



Because there are a lot of people involved in HS wars and slowcatting Nestors siting on the undock would be broken if you can't bump them off



Still high-sec "wars" should never be a balance point.



Every legitimate player-controlled use of a ship is a balance point. Highsec use is just as valid as any other use.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#372 - 2014-08-20 11:44:56 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Every legitimate player-controlled use of a ship is a balance point. Highsec use is just as valid as any other use.



Wooooft, now you've gone and done it Lol
Darren Fox
Overload This
TURBOFEED OR GLORY
#373 - 2014-08-20 11:47:29 UTC
I definately see potential
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#374 - 2014-08-20 11:48:57 UTC
please just give up and redesign SOE as something good
Gosti Kahanid
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#375 - 2014-08-20 11:53:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Gosti Kahanid
Looking back at the logistic-capabilities oft the Nestor: How about changing the Bonus from Remot Armor Repair to remote Armor and Shield repair? Also a bonus to reduce the Cap-Usage of said Repair Modules so you donĀ“t get so much problems with cap while using it, while still having a Cap-Problem when using other Modules (like Lasers or eWar).
With this the Nestor could be a viable BS-Logistic Ship with a Drone-Damage-Support
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#376 - 2014-08-20 12:42:31 UTC
Fozzie The Great Tears Collector, can you describe in one sentence the purpose of this hull? How you see it in line of others SoE hulls? It would be a great start to discuss.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Divi Filus
New Xenocracy
#377 - 2014-08-20 14:28:27 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Mass: 20,000,000 (-36,000,000)
Inertia: 0.5 (+0.32)
Velocity: 65 (-27)
Magnetometric Sensor Strength: 30 (+6)


With inertia that high, aren't we looking at align times of upwards of 32.75s with MWD running (and that with all skills V, and before you start adding plates)? I like that the mass is being driven way down to (at least in theory) narrow the T3 mass advantage, but I'm a bit concerned that the high inertia cripples combat maneuverability.
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#378 - 2014-08-20 14:49:14 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey guys, after some more feedback from you guys we have a couple more additions to the changes to announce.

We're going to increase the sensor strength of the Nestor a bit to better reflect its role as a high-tech support vessel.

We're also going to be decreasing the mass of the ship quite a bit, down to 20m kg. This will help keep the Nestor balanced for use in highsec wars as it will be easier to bump away from the safety of stations, and has the added benefit of making the Nestor the first battleship that can jump into C1 wormholes. We'll be decreasing the base speed and inertia modifier at the same time, but the end result is that the Nestor will be a bit more agile and will be a bit faster than before with its prop mod running.

The new changes are:

Mass: 20,000,000 (-36,000,000)
Inertia: 0.5 (+0.32)
Velocity: 65 (-27)
Magnetometric Sensor Strength: 30 (+6)

I'm not going to say this is a bad change, because I really can't evaluate it, but I think everything that's being done with the Nestor makes it clear that nobody has any idea what to do with it. You're just sort of throwing random bonuses at it that don't really work together in any coherent way. I think you might do better to just scrap the idea of minor tweaks to it in favor of just brainstorming for an overall vision for the ship, and then go from there. Because otherwise you're just going to wind up with it being a useless ship because for any one task it's not all that good, until there's some combination of its many random bonuses that does something gamebreaking, it gets popular for the first time ever, and then you have to jump in and nerf it. Because there's no way you get to a good balance through this sort of picking out random bonuses procedure.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#379 - 2014-08-20 15:39:00 UTC
Removed a double post.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#380 - 2014-08-20 16:48:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Saisin
Retar Aveymone wrote:

I'm not going to say this is a bad change, because I really can't evaluate it, but I think everything that's being done with the Nestor makes it clear that nobody has any idea what to do with it. You're just sort of throwing random bonuses at it that don't really work together in any coherent way. .

Funny how some players seem to display a total lack of imagination and are asking for any ship to fit into their mental patterns, totally ignoring that other players may find a use for it...
It is a good thing for the game to create ships that do not fit into any current patterns, let the community find out a way to use them.

the current approach on the Nestor is a great one... Keep it up CCP.

Edit: I did not notice before it was posted by a goon... How am I not surprised?!

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