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Community Concerns Regarding SOMERblink

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Beta Maoye
#921 - 2014-08-20 11:06:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Beta Maoye
I haven't used Somer Blink. The first time I heard of them was their donating 4,000 PLEX to help typhoon victims last year. I think they are not bad guys. Perhaps the reason they get hammered is that they are too successful in their business.
Rob Kashuken
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#922 - 2014-08-20 11:08:47 UTC
Question to CCP Falcon:

Given CCP's usual punitive actions when RMT accounts and their clients are discovered, will the clients of Somer that partook of this offer also face the usual actions for being a party to RMT transactions?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#923 - 2014-08-20 11:09:50 UTC
"This medic has saved hundreds of lives. We should definitely overlook the fact that he beats his wife."

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#924 - 2014-08-20 11:10:21 UTC
Cryo Kool wrote:
I'd say SOMER had a fairly good idea to try and circumvent the RMT rule. There really is no way to determine if they were actually doing it on CCP's end though. It is a 2 step process: 1) create demand for GTC's by offering highest isk for the PLEX redeemed from GTC's. 2) negotiate a kickback with a GTC seller and advertise that seller. The SOMER proposal clearly states they will buy the PLEX resulting from GTC sales with ANY affiliate but we can safely assume that the bulk of those sales will be from the linked GTC seller as it would take the least effort to locate. Everything on CCP's side of the table will look above board and they could never know different. SOMERS side of the table and the deals they negotiate with the GTC affiliate are where the info we need is located to determine if it was RMT and we will never see that.


Doesn't even need to be a third seller Somer could had put up a shop by him self for selling GTC's, advertising it as someone else's company and raked in the cash and none the wiser.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#925 - 2014-08-20 11:13:42 UTC
Beta Maoye wrote:
I haven't used Somer Blink. The fist time I heard of them was their donating 4,000 PLEX to help typhoon victims last year. I think they are not bad guys. Perhaps the reason they get hammered is that they are too successful in their business.
He's getting hammered because he attempted to circumvent the rules regarding the monetisation of CCPs intellectual property.

His charitable donations do not excuse that, just as they didn't excuse Bernie Madhoff when he got clobbered for running a huge Ponzi and ripping people off for their pensions.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Ynef
Skill Extraction Slavery
#926 - 2014-08-20 11:14:30 UTC
So after Somer Blink done with the reinbursment, they shall get the well deserved permanent ban for RMT and the reputation damage they done to CCP right?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#927 - 2014-08-20 11:16:40 UTC
Ynef wrote:
So after Somer Blink done with the reinbursment, they shall get the well deserved permanent ban for RMT and the reputation damage they done to CCP right?

Or some limited edition ships....

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Arrendis
TK Corp
#928 - 2014-08-20 11:17:19 UTC
Ynef wrote:
So after Somer Blink done with the reinbursment, they shall get the well deserved permanent ban for RMT and the reputation damage they done to CCP right?


Last I checked, reputation damaging isn't a bannable offense. But let's hope the first bit holds, hey?
Derrick Miles
Death Rabbit Ky Oneida
#929 - 2014-08-20 11:17:43 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
"This medic has saved hundreds of lives. We should definitely overlook the fact that he beats his wife."

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
He's getting hammered because he attempted to circumvent the rules regarding the monetisation of CCPs intellectual property.

His charitable donations do not excuse that, just as they didn't excuse Bernie Madhoff when he got clobbered for running a huge Ponzi and ripping people off for their pensions.

While RMT is bad, I'm not sure it rates on the scale of wife-beating and stealing pensions.
cpu939
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#930 - 2014-08-20 11:18:21 UTC
Ynef wrote:
So after Somer Blink done with the reinbursment, they shall get the well deserved permanent ban for RMT and the reputation damage they done to CCP right?



they should ban before the reimbursement, like they do to all rmt'er, that way its less work to go over. like i said ban the buyer and the sellers
Enaris Kerle
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#931 - 2014-08-20 11:23:00 UTC
Beta Maoye wrote:
I haven't used Somer Blink. The first time I heard of them was their donating 4,000 PLEX to help typhoon victims last year. I think they are not bad guys. Perhaps the reason they get hammered is that they are too successful in their business.

It's more likely that the reason they get hammered is that THEY ARE BLATANTLY IMPLEMENTING A SCHEME WHERE THEY OFFER INCENTIVES LINKED TO BUYING GTCS AFTER GETTING TOLD LESS THAN A YEAR AGO THAT THEY CAN'T OFFER INCENTIVES LINKED TO BUYING GTCS

Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm.
Cryo Kool
Tax Holiday
#932 - 2014-08-20 11:23:31 UTC
Baneken wrote:
Cryo Kool wrote:
I'd say SOMER had a fairly good idea to try and circumvent the RMT rule. There really is no way to determine if they were actually doing it on CCP's end though. It is a 2 step process: 1) create demand for GTC's by offering highest isk for the PLEX redeemed from GTC's. 2) negotiate a kickback with a GTC seller and advertise that seller. The SOMER proposal clearly states they will buy the PLEX resulting from GTC sales with ANY affiliate but we can safely assume that the bulk of those sales will be from the linked GTC seller as it would take the least effort to locate. Everything on CCP's side of the table will look above board and they could never know different. SOMERS side of the table and the deals they negotiate with the GTC affiliate are where the info we need is located to determine if it was RMT and we will never see that.


Doesn't even need to be a third seller Somer could had put up a shop by him self for selling GTC's, advertising it as someone else's company and raked in the cash and none the wiser.


Indeed; that would be the most profitable method. Creating your own affiliate company and pocketing 100% of the sales. Also better for ensuring that there are less people who could expose the actual RMT intent of the two companies relationship.
CCP Falcon
#933 - 2014-08-20 11:24:29 UTC
Good morning everyone Smile

A few more comments and answers... hopefully we'll have closure on this within the next 48 hours.

Rroff wrote:
Given the lengths some have gone to to stir up anti-blink sentiment to say there has been no witch hunt at all is hardly accurate.


There's no witch hunt here on our part. If people stay within the game rules, then we have no problem. If they don't, they get into trouble.

Andski wrote:
If you're trying to figure out the "motive" you'll only be sorely disappointed. EVE players don't like it when another player presumes to be above the rules. The outrage was entirely justified IMO.


I agree completely, and I can clearly see why the community is angry.

Andski wrote:
Ohkewl wrote:
huh, and The Mittani isnt?? Didnt he quit his RL job so he could focus more on his RMT empire? He lives from his RMT, while paying his employees with ISK.


Submit your evidence to security@ccpgames.com


This.

KaRa DaVuT wrote:


isnt there any mechanism in CCP to check their dealings and third party service providers to see that If they are keeping their part of the promise? Because What somer did like you said did not meet the original proposition. THen why CCP ever check them ?



Right now, we work on a case by case basis with each partner and make sure they're sticking to what's agreed.

Chribba wrote:
So I hope this means that just because Somer decided to shut down themselves, the investigation is not over? If they are found "guilty" I still expect actions to be taken. Just because someone decides to cease on their own free will doesn't make it a get out of jail free card for the things done...

I understand that it's a delicate situation and that CCP also do not wish to see players of Somer getting punished (where not needed) because they played a game where the operator did wrong things - but still allowing the bad guys to offload everything to alts and what not is also kinda of a slap on the wrist. Like said, I know it's delicate and hard. But I really don't want to see you drop the ball on this.

/c


I think you know me better than to assume that this won't be thoroughly investigated and closed out properly. It just takes time because of the sheer size and scope of the transactions that have taken place.

Andski wrote:
It'd be pretty stupid for CCP to punish people who played on that site, given CCP's past tacit endorsements of SOMERblink. But if they conclude that Somerset Mahm and his staff were clearly looking to engage in ISK selling, I do hope they are given the same punishment as any other player who engages in such activity.


We have no intention of pursuing players who've legitimately used SOMER Blink's services in good faith. I would never advocate that.

Fracoix wrote:
Enjoy the hit to PLEX sales......


Sorry to disappoint you, but I value my own integrity, the trust of the community and the rebuilding of bridges and trust between CCP and our players more than I value the bottom line at the end of the month.

Our community is the blood that courses through the veins of EVE, without it we'd be screwed. I'll take a healthy, trusting community over a fatter bottom line at the end of the month any time.

Andski wrote:
CCP loves making an example out of highly visible players to demonstrate that nobody is above the rules.


To be fair, we don't enjoy reprimanding anyone for breach of the rules, but it has to be done to protect the integrity of the game when our policies are breached. That's just how it is.

For what it's worth, I personally LOVE the concept of SOMER Blink. I played for a while before I came to CCP and made a healthy profit out of it. However, if it's not operating within the rules we lay out, then something has to be done.

KaRa DaVuT wrote:
This is not mob justice.

This is a COMMUNITY that tries to solve the problem with free thinking. If you cant deal with other people's opinions then I suggest you to read somewhere else.



I agree completely.

Andski wrote:
Also, it's not mob justice. CCP leaves a thread open for angry posters to be angry in and reduce moderator workload while the grownups at CCP talk. I doubt a single post in this thread was even considered in those discussions.


To be fair, I've been paying a lot of attention to what's been said in this thread, but it can be difficult at times to filter the genuine concern and comments from the angry pitchfork waving. That's my job, though Big smile

Rob Kashuken wrote:
Question to CCP Falcon:

Given CCP's usual punitive actions when RMT accounts and their clients are discovered, will the clients of Somer that partook of this offer also face the usual actions for being a party to RMT transactions?


Once our investigation is complete, if there is evidence of any rule breaking activity, SOMER Blink will be treat the same as any other individual or organization in game.


I'm meeting again today within CCP, and will be in touch with the CSM again once we have further developments.

Thanks for the patience guys Smile

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
Derrick Miles
Death Rabbit Ky Oneida
#934 - 2014-08-20 11:27:19 UTC
Thanks for the update.
111010110
The Darwin Initiative
#935 - 2014-08-20 11:27:32 UTC
Cryo Kool wrote:
I'd say SOMER had a fairly good idea to try and circumvent the RMT rule. There really is no way to determine if they were actually doing it on CCP's end though. It is a 2 step process: 1) create demand for GTC's by offering highest isk for the PLEX redeemed from GTC's. 2) negotiate a kickback with a GTC seller and advertise that seller. The SOMER proposal clearly states they will buy the PLEX resulting from GTC sales with ANY affiliate but we can safely assume that the bulk of those sales will be from the linked GTC seller as it would take the least effort to locate. Everything on CCP's side of the table will look above board and they could never know different. SOMERS side of the table and the deals they negotiate with the GTC affiliate are where the info we need is located to determine if it was RMT and we will never see that.

PS. This is how pachinko parlors in Japan circumvent the gambling laws. You gamble for these "prizes" and then walk around the corner to a shop that buys said prizes. The connection between that shop and the gambling establishment is where the related info can be found.


And that connection is Marcus Eikenberry's business activities in de current form of Markee Dragon. Focusing on Somer isn't even half the story. Keep in mind that Somer switched to Markee Dragon following the previous upheavals which revolved around margin wars between Shattered Crystal and Markee Dragon with the latter winning the race primarily because CCP had already granted an air of legitimate / preferred status. 30D trials? Markee Dragon. Then Markee got Somer, both got Community Spotlights, heralded as awesome, the rest is history.

In return Markee figured out quite well that if you want a market such as EVE, you need to leave the dark side (unlike what Darius was ranting on about, it's a choice) but you can't really do that so you must have a stamp of "legit". That's what Markee was buying with Somer and massaging CCP's perception of things.

CCP got gamed, by someone with the clear and long established intent to game those who make games.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#936 - 2014-08-20 11:29:52 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
An excellent post
Thank you for doing your job so well, sir.

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Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#937 - 2014-08-20 11:35:17 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
An excellent post

Time taken to thoroughly read and address player concern noted and appreciate, o7 falcon.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#938 - 2014-08-20 11:35:45 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
I'm meeting again today within CCP, and will be in touch with the CSM again once we have further developments.

Thanks for the patience guys Smile



Oh god, more meetings... Blink

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#939 - 2014-08-20 11:36:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
CCP Falcon wrote:
An excellent post

Time taken to thoroughly read and address player concern noted and appreciate, o7 falcon.

Edit: double post but I'm leaving it here, he worked for it.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
casperlolz
MinersOfTheWhiteflame
#940 - 2014-08-20 11:36:19 UTC
I know alot of people are upset with both sides but I will say Even though i'm sided with Blink i'm also sided with CCP, I brag all the time to my friends on how CCP listens to players, so for the people rageing about Blink, please sit down and talk like normal people.