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Stormcrows: Killers of 2034 Slaves
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Kyllsa Siikanen
Tuonelan Virta
#201 - 2014-08-17 21:14:43 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Kyllsa Siikanen wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Kyllsa Siikanen wrote:

I agree with those who have said this was 2000 lives saved, not 2034 lost.


With all due respect... this is crap.

You don't save people by firing at them. And attack was to destroy the target, not save some slaves. All casualties are just collateral damage. And amount of them is random. They all 4034 could have died. Or survived. It is Maker's will it happened this way, but not another.



With no respect intended or implied whatsoever, you are slow-witted.

Who would say this, but not a woman, who believes that shooting at peoples is "saving" them.


Tell us more about Tibus Heth sometime.

“Crying is all right in its own way while it lasts. But you have to stop sooner or later, and then you still have to decide what to do.” 

― C.S. Lewis 
Soren Tyrhanos
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#202 - 2014-08-17 21:29:25 UTC
Kyllsa Siikanen wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Kyllsa Siikanen wrote:

I agree with those who have said this was 2000 lives saved, not 2034 lost.


With all due respect... this is crap.

You don't save people by firing at them. And attack was to destroy the target, not save some slaves. All casualties are just collateral damage. And amount of them is random. They all 4034 could have died. Or survived. It is Maker's will it happened this way, but not another.



With no respect intended or implied whatsoever, you are slow-witted.


While I hate to share and opinion with a dissident engaged in a pointless rebellion..... I must admit I find myself thanking God that those few slaves were not subject to Nauplius' abhorrent and depraved attentions.

I lament the loss of life as well and to brush off such loss as collateral damage is more than callous, I would like to believe that no more slaves will be killed in this conflict, as they are innocent in this war, but such is not likely to be the case.

God willing we can save them all from this heretic.
Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
#203 - 2014-08-17 21:53:01 UTC
So many people think my slaves are better off dead. What gives you the right to make that decision for them? My slaves would rather stay alive; if you could hear them, they would beg you not to shoot at them.

(Perhaps you consider this assertion improbable, but recall that I brainwash all my slaves with the Doctrine of Hell and the place of the Minmatar within it; my slaves fear nothing more than their future damnation in Hell and so despite the torment of their daily lives would not think of trying to end them; hardly any of my slaves ever commit suicide.)
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#204 - 2014-08-17 22:03:11 UTC
Nauplius wrote:
So many people think my slaves are better off dead. What gives you the right to make that decision for them? My slaves would rather stay alive; if you could hear them, they would beg you not to shoot at them.

(Perhaps you consider this assertion improbable, but recall that I brainwash all my slaves with the Doctrine of Hell and the place of the Minmatar within it; my slaves fear nothing more than their future damnation in Hell and so despite the torment of their daily lives would not think of trying to end them; hardly any of my slaves ever commit suicide.)

We have the same right to make that decision for them as you do. Alleged divine rights aside, what right do you have to brainwash abuse and sacrifice these people?

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#205 - 2014-08-17 22:26:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Diana Kim
Kyllsa Siikanen wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Kyllsa Siikanen wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Kyllsa Siikanen wrote:

I agree with those who have said this was 2000 lives saved, not 2034 lost.


With all due respect... this is crap.

You don't save people by firing at them. And attack was to destroy the target, not save some slaves. All casualties are just collateral damage. And amount of them is random. They all 4034 could have died. Or survived. It is Maker's will it happened this way, but not another.



With no respect intended or implied whatsoever, you are slow-witted.

Who would say this, but not a woman, who believes that shooting at peoples is "saving" them.


Tell us more about Tibus Heth sometime.

I think I'd prefer to come someday to Republic space to shoot at some minmatar militia fighters to "save" them.
You will LOVE it.
I might even send you numbers of saved survivors, whom I will transfer as POWs to Empire authorities.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#206 - 2014-08-17 23:05:03 UTC
It always hurts my brain when Kimmy gets close to making a good point. It's like I'm feeling the laws of physics torn asunder.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.
Soren Tyrhanos
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#207 - 2014-08-18 00:04:47 UTC
Nauplius wrote:
So many people think my slaves are better off dead. What gives you the right to make that decision for them? My slaves would rather stay alive; if you could hear them, they would beg you not to shoot at them.

(Perhaps you consider this assertion improbable, but recall that I brainwash all my slaves with the Doctrine of Hell and the place of the Minmatar within it; my slaves fear nothing more than their future damnation in Hell and so despite the torment of their daily lives would not think of trying to end them; hardly any of my slaves ever commit suicide.)


I remember my friend, Classiarii Ouryon, recounting to me about his operations against the Blood Raider scum and one particular addage he and his unit used to have.

"Better dead than bled."

I certainly agree with the sentiment.
Kyllsa Siikanen
Tuonelan Virta
#208 - 2014-08-18 10:46:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Kyllsa Siikanen
Whoops.

“Crying is all right in its own way while it lasts. But you have to stop sooner or later, and then you still have to decide what to do.” 

― C.S. Lewis 
TomHorn
Horn Brothers Holdings Inc.
#209 - 2014-08-18 14:28:53 UTC
Nauplius wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:


Because we live in a ******* disgusting universe.


We live in a universe created by God and run according to His hidden will. To call it disgusting is an error of faith.


I remember listening to some sermons, when i was living in the Empire working for the Sarum family. This was one i remember,

Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him

"...let all those rejoice, who put their trust in God;
Let them ever shout for joy, because You defend them;
Let those also who love Your name be joyful in You.
For You, O Lord, will bless the righteous;
With favor You will surround him as with a shield
Eden Deninard
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#210 - 2014-08-19 22:13:57 UTC
This is sickening.
DeadRow
Blue Canary
Watch This
#211 - 2014-08-19 23:12:48 UTC
Eden Deninard wrote:
This is sickening.



I know, right? 11 pages of nothing!

~Hikari
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#212 - 2014-08-20 16:01:41 UTC
I believe that both points of view:
1) that the slaves were killed intentionally;
and
2) that the slaves were saved by shooting at them,
are rather stupid and this discussion is meaningless (and that's why these are 11 pages of nothing, Ms. Sato).

The said slavers just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. The Stormcrows are neither "Killers of Slaves", nor "Saviors of Slaves", they are just good mercenaries who successfully completed their job and destroyed the target.

For Maker's sake, think about it logically, you are just like kids playing some sort of gallentean senseless drama. "Oh no, they killed slaves!" "Oh wow they saved slaves!"
This all is so insignificant, this is so stupid, this is so unprofessional, that I want to throw up just reading all that crap.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#213 - 2014-08-21 03:07:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Kim, you're doing that thing again where you veer dangerously close to expressing an opinion that's vaguely sensible, or at least not wholly objectionable. If you hadn't included that unnecessary lash-out at the Gallenteans I'd almost be worried.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Alexander Draegar
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#214 - 2014-08-21 04:24:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Alexander Draegar
Having taken a closer look at the situation, I've formed a rather comprehensive opinion over the matter.

1. Any waste of slaves -- especially in an instance like this -- is not only unfortunate, it is shameful. Two thousand souls were lost for no apparent reason at all, other than simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

2. To deliberately kill any slave without giving them a chance to repent of their sins and find salvation in God, is a sin. Any captured slave deserves to live at least long enough to experience the same spiritual salvation that their masters already enjoy -- else why would we hold anyone we capture as prisoner?

3. To kill any slave for such petty reasons is a sin. The slave must have done something to grievously sin against their masters after their servitude begins in order to receive such a harsh sentence -- otherwise they would need to be given ample opportunity to be spiritually saved and enlightened, so that they can rejoin society as a truly worthy individual... such should be the goal of any worthy, God-fearing Holder.

Naupilus, you steer a course of self-destruction because of your actions. I urge you to think on the souls that you hold. It is God's Will that all should be saved, save when those of His children are actively engaged in fighting against the true Faith (after we take charge of them). Only in that case do they deserve to find spiritual salvation and purification by the fires of God, rather than by the light of his mercy.

As for the Stormcrows who were present at the event, may God have mercy on their souls. If they committed these actions out of ignorance, may they seek God's absolution and receive it in peace. If they did so deliberately, I can only hope they know what sort of punishment God has for them in the afterlife for having committed such heinous actions against God's other children (misguided as they are).

"To kick ass harder, swing foot faster. To kick more ass, keep swinging foot!"

~Alexander Draegar
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#215 - 2014-08-21 11:27:08 UTC
The fact that Amarr defines something as a sin is not usually a factor in the decision-making process of us heathens.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Jace Sarice
#216 - 2014-08-21 12:56:48 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
The fact that Amarr defines something as a sin is not usually a factor in the decision-making process of us heathens.


It is funny how that works.
Alexander Draegar
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#217 - 2014-08-22 05:04:29 UTC
Is it not at least morally wrong to you? Do you not have a conscience?

If neither of those things are true, you're not even human.

"To kick ass harder, swing foot faster. To kick more ass, keep swinging foot!"

~Alexander Draegar
Ollie Rundle
#218 - 2014-08-22 12:42:37 UTC
Alexander Draegar wrote:
Two thousand souls were lost for no apparent reason at all, other than simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

This quote adequately defines the human condition.

Alexander Draegar wrote:
Is it not at least morally wrong to you? Do you not have a conscience?

If neither of those things are true, you're not even human.

We've all died at least once and yet we live.

We're thought given artificial form. We exist only because our memories persist in shells made from plant waste and other forms of recycled biomass, shells that are faintly reminiscent of the humans we once might have been.

We make sport and entertainment of the mass death and destruction of both our own kind and their human crews.

You may be appealing to the wrong crowd if you came here selling morality and the idea that we're still even remotely human.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#219 - 2014-08-22 13:57:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
I think Pilot Rundle's expressed opinion reveals more about what he thinks of himself than it does of any objective truth about the human condition.

Humanity as a whole, and Capsuleers like any other subfaction of humanity, run the gamut from the too-callous to the too-sensitive, from the morally unimpeachable to the depths of irredeemable turpitude. (And all of that is a gross oversimplification treating morality as a simple linear spectrum of wrong shading to right, rather than the vast and convoluted hyperpoly of possible positions with every person fltting around inside like the atoms of some ideal gas that it really is.)

Alexander Draegar wrote:
Is it not at least morally wrong to you?


Slavery? Yes. Slavery is absolutely morally wrong, in my eyes.

"Wasting" slaves - in the sense of their dying during a rescue attempt? That's a little more situational. I accept and acknowledge that a slave's life can be a long, full, happy and fulfilling one in the right circumstances, which is why I wouldn't personally open fire on a slave transport just because it's a slave transport.

It would depend, in fact, on who was flying that transport. If the pilot was, for example, a known mass-murdering psychotic who thinks that God is the kind of axe-crazy sadist who created an entire ethnic group for the sole purpose of commanding that their lives be sacrificed to his glory in a variety of inventively cruel ways beginning with a regime of brainwashing, indoctrination and hellish subjugation? I would consider it morally indefensible NOT to open fire and rescue the survivors whenever the opportunity arose. The moral accountability for the deaths of those who were killed in the rescue attempt lies with the slaver, not with the would-be rescuer.

Being a nonbeliever, I don't believe in the existence of God, nor Sin, nor Salvation from it, nor that slavery is a means to accomplish said Salvation. Is it surprising that the conclusions I draw in the absence of those four assumptions are going to be wildly different from your own, pilot Draegar?

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Ollie Rundle
#220 - 2014-08-23 03:03:32 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
I think Pilot Rundle's expressed opinion reveals more about what he thinks of himself than it does of any objective truth about the human condition.

The first part of your statement is undoubtedly true - each of us filters our motives, judgements, words and actions through the limitations of our own perspective. I'm not so sure about the second part: just because this is my view does not exclude it from being 'objective' or 'true' - although I admit it does not necessarily make it so either.

The larger point was that a great deal of human death and misery occurs without rhyme or reason and that wrong place/wrong time is a common enough occurence to be considered de rigueur for humanity rather than anything particularly unique to the topic du jour.

Stitcher wrote:
Slavery? Yes. Slavery is absolutely morally wrong, in my eyes.

Quote:
I accept and acknowledge that a slave's life can be a long, full, happy and fulfilling one in the right circumstances...

Can you clarify this philosophy, Stitcher? It seems an interesting juxtaposition to claim that the concept of slavery is wrong in an absolute sense only to then acknowledge that it might be justified based on a sample of worthwhile outcomes obtained under specific conditions and I'm interested to try and understand your process in reaching that position.

I suspect you might be talking about foundations as compared with results - keeping a certain clinical distance between cause and effect, so to speak - but I'd rather hear it in your own words than speculate wildly.

If you'd prefer to discuss it privately I'm happy to oblige.