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WIS - What was wrong with just using Unreal or any other engine???
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Dusty Meg
Echelon Research
Goonswarm Federation
#41 - 2011-12-09 08:44:55 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Dusty Meg wrote:
Dust uses a modified version of the unreal engine so dont think the licensing issues are there.

…except for it being a smaller team; the engine them instant-access middleware for a completely different platform; the engine being used for what it does best (and at a scale that it's known to handle well); and except that they're building that game from scratch rather than trying to squeeze an existing game into it.

So licensing for that purpose and that team is cheaper than trying to roll it alone, unlike EVE/WoD.


Its not known to run on a scale that its known to handle well for Dust. The unreal engine is designed for small maps with lots going on. Not the massive maps with lots going on that Dust will be. Thats the reason they need to edit the engine to make it handle massive maps with masses of different things going on.
Got this info from a few different places the latest was the interview of CCP Dropbear and CCP Headfirst on voices of the void.

But as many have said the carbon engine is where its at, its simply like the original Crysis. Too advanced for the time of release.

Creater of the EVE animated influence map http://www.youtube.com/user/DustMityEVE
Adamonus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2011-12-09 10:29:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Adamonus
good question . Why nobody at CCP thought about incarna running before 2020 on actual pc-systems as expected...?? Smells a bit like cind of a hoax...and food for investors...

I think humans would rather be able to populate Mars in RL, than CCP manages to find suitable solutions this way for WIS and their player-community right now;


1. create a working, USEABLE basic engine for WIS
2. You can improve the "look" every 2 years a bit - like you already did it in the past.

This would have been much more ecconomic than creating an engine that nobody can use today (and nobody can benefit today: not community, not company) - It does not re-calculate, unless you invent cind of a "shop"-system to refinance the developement costs....which hopefully does not happen and take place anymore, now. Not as "that" intended.

Ridiculous, that a software company does not spend enough attention to such basics...

PS: Has anybody seen captain C.A.R.B.O.N. ?
mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
#43 - 2011-12-09 10:48:44 UTC
Adamonus wrote:
good question . Why nobody at CCP thought about incarna running before 2020 on actual pc-systems as expected...?? Smells a bit like cind of a hoax...and food for investors...

I think humans would rather be able to populate Mars in RL, than CCP manages to find suitable solutions this way for WIS and their player-community right now;


1. create a working, USEABLE basic engine for WIS
2. You can improve the "look" every 2 years a bit - like you already did it in the past.

This would have been much more ecconomic than creating an engine that nobody can use today (and nobody can benefit today: not community, not company) - It does not re-calculate, unless you invent cind of a "shop"-system to refinance the developement costs....which hopefully does not happen and take place anymore, now. Not as "that" intended.

Ridiculous, that a software company does not spend enough attention to such basics...

PS: Has anybody seen captain C.A.R.B.O.N. ?


The Incarna engine runs fine on anything even remotely modern. Hell, it doesn't even use a DX10/DX11 codepath, so in a sense Incarna is a somewhat outdated engine! Also, the main focus of Incarna is the character engine, and Incarna's character animations and design features are light-years ahead of anything UE3 or MMO engines currently offer.

As for the OP, the entire point of CARBON is to create in-house tech as a long-term asset. Licensing UE3 (and other tech for that matter) is the exact scenario that CARBON is designed to avoid.
DarkAegix
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2011-12-09 10:57:13 UTC
This is a terrible thread an the OP should be ashamed.
Unreal can only handle 400 shades of brown and grey, anyway.
Adamonus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2011-12-09 11:00:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Adamonus
mechtech wrote:


As for the OP, the entire point of CARBON is to create in-house tech as a long-term asset. Licensing UE3 (and other tech for that matter) is the exact scenario that CARBON is designed to avoid.


nice to read that...but Iam afraid, as we all do know now: It does not work.

If it would work - and if it actually would have been solved - we would have WIS already in Crucible. The fact that it is NOT there is, that tehy obviously have technical problems with their engine ...as you can read in the forums it sadly is not possible to "WIS" with more than 2 people at the same time, which is absolutely inacceptable concerning the developement progress (and of yourse its resulting stagnation)

And that leads us to the question: IF we cannot use it in the near future - WHY, oh why should we buy good looking items and dresses for our avatars? Just to refinance teh developing costs? Big lol here.

That "plan" was a pure fail from its very beginning. The question is now how to reduce the "damage" and how to make WIS still usefull and avilable for community;

The "cheapest" and fastest answer would be to use alternative 3d engines to keep progress alive, to avoid a Duke nukem forever scenario (the message is: "eat the bread, when its hot....") and do not set on time....which CCP actually does not have in this case...
RaTTuS
BIG
#46 - 2011-12-09 11:05:00 UTC
I take it the OP has not used the Unreal engine to do anything with ....

http://eveboard.com/ub/419190933-134.png http://i.imgur.com/kYLoKrM.png

Adamonus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2011-12-09 11:17:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Adamonus
RaTTuS wrote:
I take it the OP has not used the Unreal engine to do anything with ....



to be honest, I think it does not matter WHAT alternative engine it would be exactly, since it fulfills the whole wanted function - in a usable way of course.

This would be a good first basic step....contrary to all the CCP "magic", that actually does not take place before 2020...lol

...would you wait another 5 years for WIS together? I dont think so.
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#48 - 2011-12-09 11:57:00 UTC
Doesn't the last version of Unreal cost around $1m for full licensing for 1 title(Granted there are other options). Which means they already got it for Dust but then they would need to get it for Eve/WoD which would be ~$3m total. Not only that Carbon can be used as a fail safe if CCP start going **** up and they can start selling licensing for Carbon. Granted atm Carbon is a over polished turd that need A LOT more work, but it at least has some potential.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Shahirahh Orgasana
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2011-12-09 11:58:00 UTC
mechtech wrote:
Incarna's character animations and design features are light-years ahead of anything UE3 or MMO engines currently offer.


I dunno. I've always thought the walking animations in CQ looked kind of stiff and unnatural.
DarkXale
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2011-12-09 12:26:10 UTC
Dusty Meg wrote:
Not the massive maps with lots going on that Dust will be.

Its not perfect - but I don't expect it to be anything out of league of what Global Agenda has already done.
MidnightWyvern
Fukamichi Corporation
SAYR Galactic
#51 - 2011-12-09 14:05:54 UTC
GeoffWICE wrote:
DarkAegix wrote:
Because CCP don't want a separate .exe for each time you're docked, maybe?

dont need a seperate exe, use unreal for the whole of eve


Congratulations are in order for coming up with the worst idea I have ever heard. Bar none.

Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!

Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)
Khamelea
Bricks in the Sky
#52 - 2011-12-09 14:13:33 UTC
Totally agree with the OP, they should have just used an existing engine, like the quake 1 engine. It's even open source now, no licensing costs at all!!!

On second thoughts, that's a stupid idea.
Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#53 - 2011-12-09 14:25:31 UTC
GeoffWICE wrote:
DarkAegix wrote:
Because CCP don't want a separate .exe for each time you're docked, maybe?

dont need a seperate exe, use unreal for the whole of eve


Shocked

By the way, since we're already talking, do you want to buy a rifter? I've got the cheapest rifters in Metropolis. If you can find a cheaper rifter, buy it!
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#54 - 2011-12-09 14:26:52 UTC
Reinventing things is fun, yo.

Just the other day I had an idea for a round disc that one could attach to things to make them easier to move.

And I'm seriously toying with the idea of cutting loaves of bread into thin sheets and throwing some meat and cheese on them to see what happens.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Tepir
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2011-12-09 14:48:20 UTC
Zagdul wrote:
Because the Unreal Engine cannot do what the CARBON engine can.

This engine is gorgeous and is quite frankly the best looking one I've seen. After being in Captain's Quarters, then going to play other games like Skyrim to compare, It's easy to see where CCP's development money has gone.

It is well invested, it just needs a LOT of work before it's up to scratch. When WiS is at a point where we're in establishments, I believe people asking questions like this will eat their words.

CCP needs to start licensing this engine out to others. Start with the law enforcement community.




Skyrim is like 5 years behind carbon > somehow i have feeling that even ES IV graphic was better ..... I agree with you . it might be costy but money was well invested and will payout in near future.

I also think that CCP is not money milking machine in style of bethesda or EA games who release unfinished games on the market with 5 years old engines .

All you have to do is to check how much money bethesda invested in skyrim and check the human Face there
Check the money CCP invested in Carbon. Check out our Human faces. What looks more realistic ??

Unreal engine if you ask me is more for fast games , shooting games etc.
Taiwanistan
#56 - 2011-12-09 15:23:39 UTC
Zagdul wrote:
Because the Unreal Engine cannot do what the CARBON engine can.

This engine is gorgeous and is quite frankly the best looking one I've seen. After being in Captain's Quarters, then going to play other games like Skyrim to compare, It's easy to see where CCP's development money has gone.

It is well invested, it just needs a LOT of work before it's up to scratch. When WiS is at a point where we're in establishments, I believe people asking questions like this will eat their words.

CCP needs to start licensing this engine out to others. Start with the law enforcement community.



oh yeaaaah let's /doggy at an establishment with our avatars in establishments

TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
Kimiko Tojima
Daughters of Hada
#57 - 2011-12-09 16:10:28 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
Reinventing things is fun, yo.

Just the other day I had an idea for a round disc that one could attach to things to make them easier to move.

And I'm seriously toying with the idea of cutting loaves of bread into thin sheets and throwing some meat and cheese on them to see what happens.


I'm sure you're also driving a licenced Ford Model T. :P
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#58 - 2011-12-09 16:28:04 UTC
Kimiko Tojima wrote:

I'm sure you're also driving a licenced Ford Model T. :P



You can have it painted any color you want....

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2011-12-09 17:05:31 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Doesn't the last version of Unreal cost around $1m for full licensing for 1 title(Granted there are other options). Which means they already got it for Dust but then they would need to get it for Eve/WoD which would be ~$3m total. Not only that Carbon can be used as a fail safe if CCP start going **** up and they can start selling licensing for Carbon. Granted atm Carbon is a over polished turd that need A LOT more work, but it at least has some potential.


This is pretty much the M.O. for CCP though. Everything they release has potential. Quite literally the best potential in the industry.

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement
Zakuak
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#60 - 2011-12-09 17:20:39 UTC
I just want the pony with WINGS from the video!!!! Did you see the dread sized goldfish flying off in the horizon....Pink pants and saddles, hey sailor light me one!!!

Typoss