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Community Concerns Regarding SOMERblink

First post First post
Author
Grainsalt
Independent'R'Us
#41 - 2014-08-19 01:54:22 UTC
The only question that needs an immediate answer is, did CCP give SOMER permission to run this promo as SOMER advertised? I think we will find Jimmy Hoffa's body before we get an answer.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2014-08-19 01:55:57 UTC
Tam Arai wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Except for Chribba's brief remarks, I see that most web hosts are strangely quiet on this. And for good reason.

If the more mouth frothing anger management deficient among you get your way and CCP decides you are right that any income is RMT, say goodbye to your kill boards, news sites, blogs, market sites and character sheets. Anything that relies on click-throughs and affiliates to cover hosting costs. Be careful what you wish for, people. You might just get it.

Mr Epeen Cool


which kill boards, news sites, blogs, market sites and character sheets will give me isk in game in exchange for buying a plex through them?


I'm not seeing the problem, or the 'RMT' in this aside from the 'RMT' that takes place daily every time someone buys PLEX for real money and sells it for isk, regardless of the vendor.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

TheMercenaryKing
Ultimatum.
#43 - 2014-08-19 01:57:19 UTC  |  Edited by: TheMercenaryKing
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Xander Phoena wrote:
Major JSilva wrote:
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
I think CCP needs to be completely transparent with this investigation. The old ideology of Player-CCP only should be removed when involving RMT, Exploiting, Cheating, and severe cases of harassment.

Investigations in progress should never be transparent until they're finished and all the facts known. It can corrupt the information being looked at and affect its credibility.


I just want to back Silva up here. I am very angry that this situation has arisen but until we know all the facts it is imperative that calm is maintained. Lashing out at the wrong person will only make this ten times worse so let's give CCP some time to figure it out. I can confirm though that they couldn't have been more up-front and open with CSM9 about it so far.


This. I don't care one way or the other about Somer Blink, and if they are found to be in breach of the EULA on something, anything, be it RMT or otherwise, then I stand firmly behind the appropriate measures of dealing with that breach. What I am not behind is a verdict without a 'trial'. People jumping on the "Grr Somer" bandwagon are not helping the process. Because if they are not found to be in breach of the EULA then the "Grr Somer" crowd, already emotionally invested in seeing Somer taken down, regardless of whether or not they've done anything wrong, are going to be disappointed.



So I just want to make my position clear:
If the investigation is on-going, it's fine and understandable. Action against people will result in problems, like the media releasing the name of the Sandy Hook shooter's brother and blaming him.

What I refer to is that after investigations like this is over, CCP ends up stating "Actions have been taken". I want to know what actions have been taken, what will be change, and who was the player who is being involved due to his/her actions going against the EULA.

I don't know, maybe I just like having and am use to having access to this type of data publicly in real life.
Ohkewl
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#44 - 2014-08-19 02:00:36 UTC
Sugar Kyle wrote:
CCP Falcon and CCP Leeloo have been very open to our questions and the questions that we have brought forward from the community starting from last night.

I've recently been asked about accounts used for businesses and what account usage qualifies as a business reference this part of the EULA:

Quote:
"Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. Business entities and anyone who is acting for or on behalf of a business or for business purposes may not establish an Account, access the System or play EVE. Accessing the System or using the Game for commercial, business or income-seeking purposes is strictly prohibited."



Does this mean guys like TheMittani are in trouble too? That guy pays his freelance writers in isk and pretty much lives of the money generated by the site he places the articles on. If that's not a business idk what is.
Xeleonn
Hull Pen
Pen Is Out
#45 - 2014-08-19 02:27:38 UTC
Grainsalt wrote:
The only question that needs an immediate answer is, did CCP give SOMER permission to run this promo as SOMER advertised? I think we will find Jimmy Hoffa's body before we get an answer.


The blink GTC page has been updated with a link to text file of emails between Somer and CCP http://cogdev.net/blink/lisa.txt Which seems to show that approval was given by at least someone at CCP.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#46 - 2014-08-19 02:28:50 UTC
Ohkewl wrote:
That guy pays his freelance writers in isk

Which is allowed

Ohkewl wrote:
and pretty much lives of the money generated by the site he places the articles on. If that's not a business idk what is.

That money comes from ad revenue. Are you seriously suggesting that EVE websites not be allowed to run ads? Because that's absurd.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#47 - 2014-08-19 02:31:46 UTC
csm are great, appreciations
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#48 - 2014-08-19 02:35:52 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Xander Phoena wrote:
Major JSilva wrote:
Investigations in progress should never be transparent until they're finished and all the facts known. It can corrupt the information being looked at and affect its credibility.


I just want to back Silva up here. I am very angry that this situation has arisen but until we know all the facts it is imperative that calm is maintained. Lashing out at the wrong person will only make this ten times worse so let's give CCP some time to figure it out. I can confirm though that they couldn't have been more up-front and open with CSM9 about it so far.


This. I don't care one way or the other about Somer Blink, and if they are found to be in breach of the EULA on something, anything, be it RMT or otherwise, then I stand firmly behind the appropriate measures of dealing with that breach. What I am not behind is a verdict without a 'trial'. People jumping on the "Grr Somer" bandwagon are not helping the process. Because if they are not found to be in breach of the EULA then the "Grr Somer" crowd, already emotionally invested in seeing Somer taken down, regardless of whether or not they've done anything wrong, are going to be disappointed.

Those.

Very nice to see that something is underway. It'll be interesting to see how this unfolds over the coming days.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#49 - 2014-08-19 02:49:24 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Mr Epeen wrote:
Except for Chribba's brief remarks, I see that most web hosts are strangely quiet on this. And for good reason.

And here come the posts of the critical thought deficient.
TMC has run two articles on the Somer Blink scandal, both written by Goons, one of whom is a director and also a sitting member of the CSM. Mittens himself made reference to it in his latest Mitten's Mailbox piece.

Mr Epeen wrote:
If the more mouth frothing anger management deficient among you get your way and CCP decides you are right that any income is RMT

Nobody is arguing that any income is RMT. They're arguing that this specific scheme is RMT because it boils down to the same thing - they get money, in exchange for giving you isk.

Mr Epeen wrote:
say goodbye to your kill boards, news sites, blogs, market sites and character sheets. Anything that relies on click-throughs and affiliates to cover hosting costs.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with this.

Mr Epeen wrote:
Mr Epeen Cool

I'm beginning to wonder if you're too dumb to find your own posts unless you sign them.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Ohkewl
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#50 - 2014-08-19 02:56:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Ohkewl
somehow my original post got eaten, meh.

Mr Epeen wrote:
If the more mouth frothing anger management deficient among you get your way and CCP decides you are right that any income is RMT

[quote=James Amril-Kesh]Nobody is arguing that any income is RMT. They're arguing that this specific scheme is RMT because it boils down to the same thing - they get money, in exchange for giving you isk.

And TMC does the exactt same thing, they give isk, they get rl money from adds.
Keep this in mind, no plexbuyer gives rl money away, they buy plex at a normal price.
TMC gets its money from adds, Somer gets it from Markeedragon, and both give isk away to achieve that.
If what Somer does is considered RMT, then TMC,Evenews24 are also RMT'ers.

CCP opened a can of worms with third party resellers, maybe its time to get rid of them, and the problem is solved.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2014-08-19 03:00:01 UTC
And to all of you saying that "if CCP says it's okay, then it's fine with me" I don't think you realize just how badly this can be gamed.

Luckily the CFC will be more than happy to show you, if it comes to that.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#52 - 2014-08-19 03:00:19 UTC
Sugar Kyle wrote:
When we contacted CCP it was about 2am their time and we got immediate responses from CCP Falcon and CCP Leeloo. CCP Falcon is now going to bed 22 hours later. I toss that out there for the people who will wonder why questions will not be answered until tomorrow.

This is why, of all games I have ever played, I continue to play EVE Online. Greatest community support on the planet.
Sitting on the edge of my seat to see what happens!
Killdeer Okel
Doomheim
#53 - 2014-08-19 03:06:57 UTC
He has currently suspended the program due to contact with CCP.

https://cogdev.net/blink/?act=gtc

He linked his proposal as well: https://cogdev.net/blink/affiliate.rtf

Interesting to not the following statements from it:

"Blink will buy the PLEX from you at a published rate that is the same for all ETC buyers"

"Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link."

"We publish a price available to anyone: "Blink will buy your PLEX for ____ ISK!" "

A legal department should have caught the obfuscation with the wording. Obviously whoever approved it did not.
TheMasterSenor
Synthetic Reality LLC
#54 - 2014-08-19 03:13:22 UTC
Nadine Jones wrote:
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/74632
Quote:
Any involvement in RMT is a permanent ban on first offense


With this already being the second I'd think there is little to discuss in terms of consequences? Roll



+1
Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund
Goonswarm Federation
#55 - 2014-08-19 03:15:29 UTC
Killdeer Okel wrote:
He has currently suspended the program due to contact with CCP.

https://cogdev.net/blink/?act=gtc

He linked his proposal as well: https://cogdev.net/blink/affiliate.rtf

Interesting to not the following statements from it:

"Blink will buy the PLEX from you at a published rate that is the same for all ETC buyers"

"Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link."

"We publish a price available to anyone: "Blink will buy your PLEX for ____ ISK!" "

A legal department should have caught the obfuscation with the wording. Obviously whoever approved it did not.

man how did they not catch that
Marsan
#56 - 2014-08-19 03:21:10 UTC
Xander Phoena wrote:
Major JSilva wrote:
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
I think CCP needs to be completely transparent with this investigation. The old ideology of Player-CCP only should be removed when involving RMT, Exploiting, Cheating, and severe cases of harassment.

Investigations in progress should never be transparent until they're finished and all the facts known. It can corrupt the information being looked at and affect its credibility.


I just want to back Silva up here. I am very angry that this situation has arisen but until we know all the facts it is imperative that calm is maintained. Lashing out at the wrong person will only make this ten times worse so let's give CCP some time to figure it out. I can confirm though that they couldn't have been more up-front and open with CSM9 about it so far.



Yea I'm gonna call B$ on the idea of CCP and any sort of transparency. They are are in CYA mode. Sure they are "investigating the issue", but also they are hoping to do the following:

1) Tell us don't worry we are doing a through investigation.

2) Look into it.

3) Figure out how to spin this in the best light.

We aren't ever going to get significant details just a spoon-fed sanitized version of events.

PS- Also "they couldn't have been more up-front and open with CSM9 about it". How is that transparent? You guys are under an NDA which by NDA I'm not ever allowed to see.


PPS- That said I'm still not entirely sure why people are surprised, and so upset. Personally I'd rather have Somer doing RMT than the average isk for $$$ site. As long as there are people with a lot isk there are going to be people who will want to convert it to cash....

Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.

Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund
Goonswarm Federation
#57 - 2014-08-19 03:23:05 UTC
the last line of the proposal gives away what hes planning too, that he'll overpay

the no bonus clause is intended to snooker the reader into not noticing its limited to only not paying directly for the buy, so you wont notice you agreed to let him overpay for the plex itself

clever but obviously intended to deceive whoever signed off on it
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#58 - 2014-08-19 03:25:19 UTC
Retar Aveymone wrote:
the last line of the proposal gives away what hes planning too, that he'll overpay

the no bonus clause is intended to snooker the reader into not noticing its limited to only not paying directly for the buy, so you wont notice you agreed to let him overpay for the plex itself

clever but obviously intended to deceive whoever signed off on it

This is looking even more sinister by the minute.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Xeleonn
Hull Pen
Pen Is Out
#59 - 2014-08-19 03:27:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Xeleonn
I don't think there's any deception here, The first step of the Workflow contains the message that they intended to use on the service, stating that they intend to give 'the best' price.

'1. Blink messaging: "Buy your Eve Time Codes through SOMER Blink and we'll buy your PLEX from you! No need to spend time flying to Jita to sell-- we guarantee we'll give you the best price!"'

Edit: After thinking about it, there is enough ambiguity there to cause confusion as to whether they intend to provide 'the best price' inline with current Buy Orders, or Sell orders, or something more.
Killdeer Okel
Doomheim
#60 - 2014-08-19 03:30:02 UTC
In the end, If this "Lisa" from CCP approved it, which looks possible, then the program will go away, but there will be a slap on the wrist as CCP will need to take the fall for the deception. I guess CCP is no better than a Newbie in Jita. They need more practice watching the scams that are run in the game.