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Gate camping: maybe the game shouldn't encourage it

Author
Adobe Raide
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2014-08-18 08:31:10 UTC
All it takes to gate camp is a ship, no scruples and a lot of time. An astonishing number of people like to gate camp. Its almost impossible to avoid them, even a cloaked ship can easily be jammed by proximity to the crud gate campers deliberately throw out for just that purpose.

It serves no purpose but to give talentless people with too much time on their hands easy kills.

I suggest the game should not be designed to penalize people for moving through gates. I point out that perhaps the reason so many people in this game huddle up in whatever star system they've managed to feel secure in (frequently high sec) is because there are so many gate camping people in this game.

I suggest the game be designed so that nothing can attack anything near a gate or it will be vaporized by collateral warp energy. Even in lowsec or nullsec. Anywhere in regular space. Chalk it up to physics.
Anthar Thebess
#2 - 2014-08-18 08:36:48 UTC
This game should be all about gates.
Gates that you can hold, to win something , now it is just about bridges and jump drives , and this is bad.
Ahmed Ibn Rustah
Maxim 6
#3 - 2014-08-18 08:39:21 UTC
Sounds like someone wants risk free travel in LS and 0.0. -1
There has to be risk involved.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2014-08-18 08:40:42 UTC
What did you lose?
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#5 - 2014-08-18 08:45:36 UTC
Controlled gates where you could level toll fees would be entertaining.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2014-08-18 08:49:28 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Controlled gates where you could level toll fees would be entertaining.


A good camp is its own toll fee Blink
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#7 - 2014-08-18 08:50:40 UTC
I would like to see gate camping get harder, in direct response to how high the sec is.
Proposed mechanisms:

  1. Increase sentry gun damage so that perma-tanking gate guns becomes a moderate challenge again.
  2. slightly increase how far from the gate it spits you out, so someone on the gate in an unbonused ship can't land a scram, only a point
  3. Instant gate gun response in 1.0, and scale down to current times in 0.5 and below.
  4. slight increase in the number of connections between regions such that there are 2 or 3 major choke points one can chose between major hubs (looking at you niarja).

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#8 - 2014-08-18 09:05:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
First of all, they already have gate guns in half the sec areas of space.

Secondly, the game itself is basically a roguelike. The gate system is integral to how the core game functions.

Thirdly, gatecamps are easy to avoid under most circumstances. In most places they are trivial at best, only in null are they remotely worth a damn.

You want to talk about "no skill"? You're the one advocating that you yourself have to put in less work to avoid getting caught. Take that hypocritical crap to the WoW forums where it belongs.

Lastly, no one, CCP included, is going to take suggestions from a worthless NPC alt.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#9 - 2014-08-18 09:18:33 UTC
James Baboli wrote:
I would like to see gate camping get harder, in direct response to how high the sec is.
Proposed mechanisms:

  1. Increase sentry gun damage so that perma-tanking gate guns becomes a moderate challenge again.
  2. slightly increase how far from the gate it spits you out, so someone on the gate in an unbonused ship can't land a scram, only a point
  3. Instant gate gun response in 1.0, and scale down to current times in 0.5 and below.
  4. slight increase in the number of connections between regions such that there are 2 or 3 major choke points one can chose between major hubs (looking at you niarja).


I love it when people hwo have never actually performed an action have opinions on it:

1. People don't perma-tank them. They warp off-grid then back again to reset th agro.
2. No unbonused ships can't scram from a gate. And regional gates already spit you out VERY far from the gate. Being warp disrupted however is different.
3. ??????
4. Choke points create interaction. 0.0 was much more energetic before smugglers route gates where introduced. I'd argue that's why they haven't repeated this process since (With the exception of the gates around jita to avoid node crashes)
Mag's
Azn Empire
#10 - 2014-08-18 09:54:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
James Baboli wrote:
I would like to see gate camping get harder, in direct response to how high the sec is.
Proposed mechanisms:
While it may seem easy and as so many feel they can call it so, it's not. I personally did it because it suited my RL situation. I could log on at any time and still be able to join in on corp activities. There were times we were in different systems, but that's a far cry from my null sec days and their roams and major jumps.

You often need a specific fit, one that tends not to work well in other fights. You sit in the same spot, therefore painting a hotdrop target on yourself. Plus with changes made by CCP, there are long times of quiet. It's often like the old bus scenario, nothing for ages then three at the same time.

That aside, lets look at your suggestions from a low sec perspective:

  • Increase sentry gun damage so that perma-tanking gate guns becomes a moderate challenge again.
  • For a start it's as challenging as other players allow it to be. This is the backbone of Eve and it should remain that way. This backbone was only strengthened with crimewatch changes, so that now we can warp out and back removing gate gun aggro. Plus my requested no gate gun fire to drones.
    Also gate guns are meant as part of the punishment, not the total. They seem to fit that bill rather well atm.

  • slightly increase how far from the gate it spits you out, so someone on the gate in an unbonused ship can't land a scram, only a point
  • This is already the case and we tend to use bonused ships. Plus we also use Hics.
    But I do question this idea, seeing as it's already easy to avoid camps with tools provided.

  • Instant gate gun response in 1.0, and scale down to current times in 0.5 and below.
  • I'm starting to wonder if you have any knowledge on the subject at all.

  • slight increase in the number of connections between regions such that there are 2 or 3 major choke points one can chose between major hubs (looking at you niarja).
  • There are already enough connections. One could even argue there are too many and Eve needs more risk with travel. But that's for another thread and I tend to think it's about right.

    The OP is about a player not wishing to use the tools provided and wanting CCP to give him hand holding mechanics. I for one think this goes against the nature of the game and as such makes it a poor idea. Much like yours.

    Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

    Arya Regnar
    Darwins Right Hand
    #11 - 2014-08-18 10:41:22 UTC
    You want to make lowsec less dangerous?

    Let's make highsec more dangerous instead.

    EvE-Mail me if you need anything.

    afkalt
    Republic Military School
    Minmatar Republic
    #12 - 2014-08-18 10:48:07 UTC
    Arya Regnar wrote:
    You want to make lowsec less dangerous?

    Let's make highsec more dangerous instead.


    You know, in fairness, high sec isn't a kick in the arse off low/null in terms of violence.

    http://evemaps.dotlan.net/stats

    At least, at time of posting.


    Also somewhat amusingly certain null systems are almost rivalling high sec mission hubs for NPC kills Smile
    Debora Tsung
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #13 - 2014-08-18 11:56:25 UTC
    What I really want is the ability to drop bubbles in mid warp so I can catch any ship in the middle of nowhere.

    And it would be cool if bubbles could actually intercept something in mid-warp and not just some 100km before arrival.

    Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

    Fighting back is more fun than not.

    Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

    Kagura Nikon
    Native Freshfood
    Minmatar Republic
    #14 - 2014-08-18 13:33:00 UTC
    Debora Tsung wrote:
    What I really want is the ability to drop bubbles in mid warp so I can catch any ship in the middle of nowhere.

    And it would be cool if bubbles could actually intercept something in mid-warp and not just some 100km before arrival.



    Would increase the amount of positioning checking for bubble vs ship like 2 billion fold. Unlikely to happen.

    "If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

    NoLife NoFriends StillPosting
    Doomheim
    #15 - 2014-08-18 14:30:44 UTC
    Adobe Raide wrote:


    It serves no purpose but to give talentless people with too much time on their hands easy kills.



    unfortunately, that seems to be part of the intent. EVE has become the last bastion for angsty sociopaths who have gotten **** on in other more skill demanding games.
    Lan Wang
    Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
    Safety. Net
    #16 - 2014-08-18 14:49:28 UTC
    James Baboli wrote:
    I would like to see gate camping get harder, in direct response to how high the sec is.
    Proposed mechanisms:

    1. Increase sentry gun damage so that perma-tanking gate guns becomes a moderate challenge again.
    2. slightly increase how far from the gate it spits you out, so someone on the gate in an unbonused ship can't land a scram, only a point
    3. Instant gate gun response in 1.0, and scale down to current times in 0.5 and below.
    4. slight increase in the number of connections between regions such that there are 2 or 3 major choke points one can chose between major hubs (looking at you niarja).


    id like to see bubbles in highsec :D

    Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

    Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

    JAF Anders
    Adenosine Inhibition
    #17 - 2014-08-18 16:15:06 UTC
    Adobe Raide wrote:
    All it takes to gate camp is a ship, no scruples and a lot of time. An astonishing number of people like to gate camp. Its almost impossible to avoid them, even a cloaked ship can easily be jammed by proximity to the crud gate campers deliberately throw out for just that purpose.

    It serves no purpose but to give talentless people with too much time on their hands easy kills.

    I suggest the game should not be designed to penalize people for moving through gates. I point out that perhaps the reason so many people in this game huddle up in whatever star system they've managed to feel secure in (frequently high sec) is because there are so many gate camping people in this game.

    I suggest the game be designed so that nothing can attack anything near a gate or it will be vaporized by collateral warp energy. Even in lowsec or nullsec. Anywhere in regular space. Chalk it up to physics.


    It's got nothing to do with game mechanics, it has everything to do with players. If you want to control access to a stargate, you take it by whatever means you have at your disposal. If you fail, that's tough.

    The pursuit of excellence and stabbed plexing alts.

    Bullet Therapist
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #18 - 2014-08-18 16:24:34 UTC
    Gate camps are a difficult issue for newer and solo players. It can be hard when you haven't played long to identify places where they might be and you don't yet know what systems are almost perma-camped. Camps aren't, however, insurmountable, and with experience you'll find that they're not as difficult to avoid as you'd think.

    Moreover, gate camps are important and necessary to protect your systems. Running organized and frequently active gate camps keeps a large proportion of dangerous ships away from certain systems and regions. What tends to be left are things like interceptors, which can be annoying for your ratters and miners, but with a sufficient amount of players able to rapidly respond to such a threat they pose little danger.

    Much of the content in game occurs at gates and gate camps are the de-facto low and null-sec content generators. Why would you want to remove that?
    Nikk Narrel
    Moonlit Bonsai
    #19 - 2014-08-18 17:52:35 UTC
    I can't say I am aware of anyone suggesting this in the past, but why not add in NPC gate usage?

    Have it run the full range of activity, the NPC ships or convoy leaves a station, warps to a gate, jumps through to the other side, and attempts to continue to their destination.

    As a convoy, it could even follow a schedule, or be random.

    Players could try to use these as cover for their own actions, or try to ambush them.

    Gate camps would see more activity, and could draw in a more mixed grouping of PvE & PvP interests.
    Debora Tsung
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #20 - 2014-08-18 17:53:21 UTC
    Kagura Nikon wrote:
    Debora Tsung wrote:
    What I really want is the ability to drop bubbles in mid warp so I can catch any ship in the middle of nowhere.

    And it would be cool if bubbles could actually intercept something in mid-warp and not just some 100km before arrival.



    Would increase the amount of positioning checking for bubble vs ship like 2 billion fold. Unlikely to happen.


    Nah, only needs to happen once warp is initiated, same amount of checks involved as right now.

    Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

    Fighting back is more fun than not.

    Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

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