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Gallente has much better ships than others
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Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#21 - 2014-08-16 22:19:38 UTC
Ctrl+f "overheat"
0 results.


Drones can't be overheated. There's one drawback not mentioned yet in this thread.
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
#22 - 2014-08-16 23:52:43 UTC
Something something Winmatar 2009-2012 hurr durr gurrr

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2014-08-17 00:11:01 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Not been playing Eve long? You're asking to revert several balances.

IMHO Gallante ships aren't any better than anything else except being picked for tournament play.

In real Eve, if you are looking for a fair fight you are a silly billy.


Gallente has the best ship in the vast majority of ship classes, often to the point that there is literally no situation (other than lack of SP) in which you would ever want to fly any other ship in that class. There is no reason to ever use a non-Mega BS for shooting things, no reason to ever fly a non-Ishtar HAC, no reason to ever use any other dreadnaught than the Moros. The Proteus has near-complete superiority over the other three T3s for PvP as well.

Even when you go to cheap ships, Gallente has risen to be the best at everything. The Stabber and Rupture used to be amazing, now the Thorax kicks their asses at everything.
Samwise Everquest
Plus 10 NV
#24 - 2014-08-17 00:56:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Samwise Everquest
When I started playing EvE a couple of years ago:

Gallente, armor, drones, hybrids, and damps were all considered garbage.
only
I remember sticking to my guns about only flying Gallente hulls while in Gal FW and was almost laughed off the field when I showed up in a Celestis after I told the FW I was bringing EWAR (they assumed ECM.)

Minmatar/Caldari, shields, projectiles/missiles, and ecm were da shiz. Rifters and drakes were all over the damn place.

In summary, **** changes. Adapt or die.

Pras Phil.
Samwise Everquest
Plus 10 NV
#25 - 2014-08-17 01:16:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Samwise Everquest
David Koen wrote:

The Proof
I would like to make few comparisons.
Vexor and Arbitrator.
These two are both drone boats. They should have approximately same stats, but they are not. Vexor has 50% more tank, 50% more drones bandwidth, bonuses to turrets, 40% more powergrid, 5% targeting range, 5% more capacitor. Arbitrator has only 20% more drone bay, 7% more CPU, and useless bonus to tracking disruptor.


So basically you are trying to fly an arby like a Vexor since you consider the TD useless. Well DUH. Are you telling me there is not a single Arby fit that can counter a "standard" Vexor. If you aren't taking advantage of your ship's bonuses then you are doing something wrong my friend. TD's are a great counter to turrets, especially hulls without tracking/range turret bonuses like the Vexor.

I could be wrong though. Post your Vexor VS Arby fits. You cannot really compare two hulls without fitting them.

Pras Phil.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#26 - 2014-08-17 03:29:47 UTC
David Koen wrote:
Vexor has 3800 base hp, One ogre 2 has 1775 HP, 5 ogres 8880 HP, you need to do awesome amount of damage to kill all drones, so it is not a solution to kill all drones. Changing Vexor bandwith to 50mb and drone bay to 75 is the solution.


Base HP? Why are we even talking about that? Throw in resists and maybe you'd have an argument -- except that then the drones would appear ludicrously soft compared to the ship fielding them and the point would be moot.
David Koen
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2014-08-18 07:46:09 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
David Koen wrote:
Vexor has 3800 base hp, One ogre 2 has 1775 HP, 5 ogres 8880 HP, you need to do awesome amount of damage to kill all drones, so it is not a solution to kill all drones. Changing Vexor bandwith to 50mb and drone bay to 75 is the solution.


Base HP? Why are we even talking about that? Throw in resists and maybe you'd have an argument -- except that then the drones would appear ludicrously soft compared to the ship fielding them and the point would be moot.


Ishtar can carry 15 havy drones with total of 26675 HP which is much more than total Ishar hp, yes drones have resists too.
David Koen
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2014-08-18 07:57:11 UTC  |  Edited by: David Koen
Samwise Everquest wrote:


So basically you are trying to fly an arby like a Vexor since you consider the TD useless. Well DUH. Are you telling me there is not a single Arby fit that can counter a "standard" Vexor. If you aren't taking advantage of your ship's bonuses then you are doing something wrong my friend. TD's are a great counter to turrets, especially hulls without tracking/range turret bonuses like the Vexor.

I could be wrong though. Post your Vexor VS Arby fits. You cannot really compare two hulls without fitting them.


Sure Arbitrator has no counter fit to Vexor, if it was then people would use Arbitrator instead of vexor in Alliance tournament. Currently I see no Arbitrators in Alliance tournement and FW but plenty of Vexors. The standart fir for Vexor would be AB, WEB, SCRAM, Cap booster, Railguns, two REP, some resists, damage control, and drone damage amp. I posted fit for vexor now you need to post a counter fit for Arbitrator, can you?
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2014-08-18 08:24:04 UTC
How well will that vexor hold up to 366 DPS with no reps or guns running because it's been neuted out? The same vexor which cant hold tackle on the arby because it is too slow.

Of course, it isn't a fair comparison as you should be comparing the vexor to an actual combat cruisers or the arby to a celestis.

Hell and that is a badly fit, "baby curse" and it'd still stomp it.
Valkin Mordirc
#30 - 2014-08-18 08:44:44 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=362313&p=1



Quote:
"On no!" Said David, "People in F&I didn't agree with me, I maybe if I wait a bit and post IN A DIFFERENT SUB THREAD, people will be on the same page as me!"





Yeah guess what? Everything I said, and everyone else said there still stands. Stop bringing this topic up, you are just bad.


In short,

Amarr: Armor Buffer more than Gal
Caldari: Better range and damage application
Minmatar: Better speed and active shield tanks.


Now shut up about how you 'think', how OP Gallente is and learn to play the game, instead of whining about it and demanding change over the forums.

#DeleteTheWeak
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2014-08-18 08:53:18 UTC
Also, CVA kicked all kinds of ass yesterday with a pure amarr fleet.
David Koen
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2014-08-18 09:14:03 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Also, CVA kicked all kinds of ass yesterday with a pure amarr fleet.


That is good victory.
You know that they changed in rules of tournament, instead of nerfing Ishtar and Dominix they stated that Dominix costs more points than any other T1 battleship, the same for ishtar.
Denuo Secus
#33 - 2014-08-18 09:24:24 UTC
David Koen wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Also, CVA kicked all kinds of ass yesterday with a pure amarr fleet.


That is good victory.
You know that they changed in rules of tournament, instead of nerfing Ishtar and Dominix they stated that Dominix costs more points than any other T1 battleship, the same for ishtar.


AT != TQ
David Koen
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2014-08-18 09:25:35 UTC
afkalt wrote:
How well will that vexor hold up to 366 DPS with no reps or guns running because it's been neuted out? The same vexor which cant hold tackle on the arby because it is too slow.

Of course, it isn't a fair comparison as you should be comparing the vexor to an actual combat cruisers or the arby to a celestis.

Hell and that is a badly fit, "baby curse" and it'd still stomp it.


With cap booster Vexor will run reasonably fine against Arbitrator with only two neuts. If you put 4 neuts on arbitrator, than no missile launchers but only drones. This was checked many times, still Arbitrator no matter how you fit (4 neuts, or two neuts + 2 launchers) cannot win Vexor with same skills. If arbitrator had bonuses to neuts and energy vampires instead of TD, than it could challenge Vexor.
Denuo Secus
#35 - 2014-08-18 09:28:13 UTC
David Koen wrote:
afkalt wrote:
How well will that vexor hold up to 366 DPS with no reps or guns running because it's been neuted out? The same vexor which cant hold tackle on the arby because it is too slow.

Of course, it isn't a fair comparison as you should be comparing the vexor to an actual combat cruisers or the arby to a celestis.

Hell and that is a badly fit, "baby curse" and it'd still stomp it.


With cap booster Vexor will run reasonably fine against Arbitrator with only two neuts. If you put 4 neuts on arbitrator, than no missile launchers but only drones. This was checked many times, still Arbitrator no matter how you fit (4 neuts, or two neuts + 2 launchers) cannot win Vexor with same skills. If arbitrator had bonuses to neuts and energy vampires instead of TD, than it could challenge Vexor.




Stop comparing apples (combat cruisers) and oranges (ewar cruisers).
David Koen
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2014-08-18 09:35:22 UTC
Denuo Secus wrote:
David Koen wrote:
afkalt wrote:
How well will that vexor hold up to 366 DPS with no reps or guns running because it's been neuted out? The same vexor which cant hold tackle on the arby because it is too slow.

Of course, it isn't a fair comparison as you should be comparing the vexor to an actual combat cruisers or the arby to a celestis.

Hell and that is a badly fit, "baby curse" and it'd still stomp it.


With cap booster Vexor will run reasonably fine against Arbitrator with only two neuts. If you put 4 neuts on arbitrator, than no missile launchers but only drones. This was checked many times, still Arbitrator no matter how you fit (4 neuts, or two neuts + 2 launchers) cannot win Vexor with same skills. If arbitrator had bonuses to neuts and energy vampires instead of TD, than it could challenge Vexor.




Stop comparing apples (combat cruisers) and oranges (ewar cruisers).


You want to compare griffin with maulus, or Vexor with caracal? It is same here both gallente ships are much better than Caldari.
Denuo Secus
#37 - 2014-08-18 09:53:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Denuo Secus
David Koen wrote:
Denuo Secus wrote:
David Koen wrote:
afkalt wrote:
How well will that vexor hold up to 366 DPS with no reps or guns running because it's been neuted out? The same vexor which cant hold tackle on the arby because it is too slow.

Of course, it isn't a fair comparison as you should be comparing the vexor to an actual combat cruisers or the arby to a celestis.

Hell and that is a badly fit, "baby curse" and it'd still stomp it.


With cap booster Vexor will run reasonably fine against Arbitrator with only two neuts. If you put 4 neuts on arbitrator, than no missile launchers but only drones. This was checked many times, still Arbitrator no matter how you fit (4 neuts, or two neuts + 2 launchers) cannot win Vexor with same skills. If arbitrator had bonuses to neuts and energy vampires instead of TD, than it could challenge Vexor.




Stop comparing apples (combat cruisers) and oranges (ewar cruisers).


You want to compare griffin with maulus, or Vexor with caracal? It is same here both gallente ships are much better than Caldari.


Griffon is much better in brawling fights where damps are not that useful. It can remove a lock independent from distance. Caracal is a very nice skirmisher, way more useful for kiting style pvp. Did you try to kite in a Vexor? It's slow (compared to attack cruisers), blaster range is low, rail tracking is bad, drones get killed at distance. What a Vexor can do better is brawling. By comparing just the plain stats of Vexor and Caracal you're simply ignoring that PvP can happen in different scenarios.

Your whole rant is lacking some sense for the situation how fights actually happen. Sure, Gallente blaster ships are fast and deal brutal damage. But this is a must since the damage is applied at <10km only.

You're staring at DPS numbers while ignoring how it can be applied in an actual fight. You're considering rep bonus and dual cap boosters as OP while ignoring that buffer tanking is a thing too...where Caldari and Amarr perform way better.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2014-08-18 09:53:39 UTC
Chris Winter wrote:
David Koen wrote:
I would even say sentry and heavy drones do more dps than large weapons like large projectiles turrets or cruise missiles.

I stopped reading here. You could say that if you want, but you'd be wrong. Sentry drones cap out at ~800 dps on a 50% bonused hull. Other large weapon systems can easily exceed that.



Well there is a reason why there is a massssive thread on features and discussion forum complainign that sentries are overpowered and that all sub battleships ships shoudl not be able to deploy them. A rage so massive that rise acknowledge that they might need to review the subject.

Since the introduction of drone damage mods.. and tiercide changes drones boats are leaps and bounds ahead of opposition. WHiel the most nerfed race was minmatar (CCP has this nasty practice of when nerfign somethign nerfign it doznes of places at same time, instead of making 1 nerf, eveluations, doign other...e tc)


"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2014-08-18 10:33:32 UTC
A vexor isnt stable enough running everything to suck up neuts, it'll cap out quickly and die quicker still.

A caracal will dunk a vexor in your pseudo-arena. It can dictate range and RLML will splash the drones quickly. Then you'll just die slowly.

Pretty sure a moa would spank it too.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#40 - 2014-08-18 10:48:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Maeltstome
David Koen wrote:
Valleria Darkmoon wrote:


Vexor compared to Arbitrator is also not a fair comparison, one is a straight combat cruiser with double damage bonuses, the other is an e-war ship. The tank and damage differences in that case are by design. The fact that both use drones as their primary weapon is incidental. Tracking disruptors aren't useless in theory either, they are out of favor atm because of the emphasis on Ishtars where you need 5 disruptors to deal with a single Ishtar but they can still be quite effective against other things. This is also why damps are effective, because Ishtars often kite around their sentries and so damping them can cause them to lose locks and hence also control over their drones. Damps do work well in some situations but if a ship has locks on what it needs to lock while you are dampening it then nothing you do with your damp will ever matter. The proper Amarrian ship to compare to a Vexor is the Maller and while the Vexor will out damage a Maller it certainly will not out tank it.



Arbitrator and Vexor are correct comparison both are drone ships the difference is only Vexor is much better , concerning the fact tracking disruptor is useless against drones, also arbitrator does not have enough middle slots for fitting TD. TD disruptor bonus for Arbitrator is a joke you have TD bonus but cannot fit it.

If you compare Vexor with Maller when Vexor has about 60% more dps than maller, also Vexor has much better tank. You can put cap booster and two armor repairs on Vexor. But you do not have a place for capacitor booster on maller cause it does not have enought middle slots. Vexor with double rep active tank tank way more than maller with passive tank and resists bonuses. Vexor beats maller in all aspects DPS, Tank, speed and capacitor management.


Vexor is a combat ship, the Arbitrator is an E-War ship. But please, feel free to compare the Celestis to the Arby for combat ability...

On a side note though: Drone damage bonuses should be size limited similar to normal weapons. It's cool that you can have bonused heavy drones in an Ishtar, but It basically gets bonuses to 4 weapons types S/M/L/Sentry. That's an issue. Every other ship in the game has to pick one.