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Crius-killing margins rapidly what can we do?

Author
Qmamoto Kansuke
Killing with pink power
Penguins with lasorz
#1 - 2014-08-13 17:30:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Qmamoto Kansuke
Yes ladies and gents anyone who follows recent trend would notice the amount of threads about dying margins, this has been in motion ever since crius hit.Ccp refuses to acknowledge this despite the large count of times this has been brought to them at current rate they stand to lose more subs because its inevitable when someone has no profit doing what he has done for ages he is most likely to quit than find another item to build, bu wait there's more!Some might say well yer lazy yada there's still a lot items you can build for profit and i say to you for how long?Eventually we will be left with few profitable items and its going to be like jita 0.001 isk fights all day long over those few good items.For casual players that's a game killer.

So there's only one solution me and few mates have already been doing this(one my friends has 35 accountsShocked ) we decided to show CCP what they refuse to see the margins on 90% of the ingame items will die until 2015 is over.What we do is pick an X item and we burn its margin and after that make just enough to keep the margin from ever raising back again.So join me in our quest to open CCPs eyes that they need to UP the production times again to their old values else this game goes in the trash bin.

Bring up MARGINGEDON!LolTwisted
DEATH TO ALL MARGINS!!!
Fango Mango
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2014-08-13 17:35:29 UTC
I don't know what you're building but my production lines are turning a daily profit of over 10 million per slot. Just added a 5th production char and am thinking about expanding even more.

-FM



Qmamoto Kansuke
Killing with pink power
Penguins with lasorz
#3 - 2014-08-13 17:36:43 UTC
Fango Mango wrote:
I don't know what you're building but my production lines are turning a daily profit of over 10 million per slot. Just added a 5th production char and am thinking about expanding even more.

-FM





Never said I'm not making profit but that profit is getting smaller everyday.
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#4 - 2014-08-13 18:15:16 UTC
Perhaps you should give the market more time to adjust. Let me give you an example...

I make T2 damage controls. Prepatch, it took 1.25 hours to invent in a POS, 18+ hours to make. Based on my sleep pattern, thst 18 hours meant it was actually a day. So basically, each day I could make 100 DC 2s, limited more by invention.

Now invention was always the bottle neck time wise. So to save my sanity and avoid trips to trade hubs, I would invent in large batches. once I had enough BPCs ready, i would make them. I had a stockpike right before patch. I knew material change were coming, so the wait was planned. The patch hit... Now, instead of 100 mods a day, it takes 4 hours to make 100 mods, and well... Work and sleep hinder Eve life, but still... I can make 300 mods a day now. What would have taken me 12 days is now 4 days.

Guess what, I, like many proceed to mass produce, thinking more mods equals more money. Well... The demand didn't change, but supply sure did. I, and many others, rapidly flood the market (especially since a lot if us held off, drying up the supply, this was why t2 280mm Howie prices rose a ton prepatch). Our flood lowers the market as we compete to sell and get some if thst higher profit. However supply is huge and the market drops.

Also, my bpcs went from -4 ME to much better, meaning more profit per unit if sold at old prices or i can take less profit per and still be good. So more reason for prices to drop.

But wait... Invention times changed. What use to be once every 1.25 hours in a pos is now 4 in a station. This slows me down actually. I could get 4+ invention cycles in a day. Now I get 3 or less. So, once I burn through my existing stock, I (like many others) will actually produce at a slower rate. Prices will bounce back as the demand matches the lower supply. Also, the New bpcs have a lower ME, meaning they cost more.

So basically, you are reacting too soon. We are still in the correction phases. Give it a few months, then see what's happening.
My guess, things will balance out and the profits will be about the same.
Notorious Fellon
#5 - 2014-08-13 18:25:57 UTC
Your margins are shrinking because the market is adjusting. It takes time.

Are you seriously so confused that you think market prices will remain steady forever and all industrialists will just accept a loss?

Or do you think once demand reduces current stock that prices will slowly rise to place margins right back where they were?

Seriously, think further into the future than your current production run. Then plan for that future.

Crime, it is not a "career", it is a lifestyle.

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#6 - 2014-08-13 18:55:11 UTC
Notorious Fellon wrote:
Your margins are shrinking because the market is adjusting. It takes time.

Haven't been manufacturing for at least two months now. Just sitting here dumping my ISK into my BPO now.

I'm still trying to sell my pre-Crius stockpiles. That will probably take me another month, and compared to some, my stockpiles were tiny.

Yup, gonna take a while.
Team Bidders
Doomheim
#7 - 2014-08-13 20:31:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Team Bidders
I don't care about margins; I care only about ISK per hour.

Before Crius, I set my minimal requried return to be 400,000 per hour and I have 11 manufacturing slots. I thougth that's good enough, because I could make 4.4 million per hour, which is equal to over 3.1 billion per month.

Now I have 20 manufacturing slots (21st is coming soon) and my minimal required return is 500,000 per hour. I am looking at 7-9 billions' profit this month (before fuels or BPO purchases).

My advice: do more market research.
Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund
Goonswarm Federation
#8 - 2014-08-13 20:39:22 UTC
my margins are so obscenely high i can't even calculate them
Cyniac
Twilight Star Rangers
#9 - 2014-08-13 21:06:21 UTC
Hint:

You are doing it wrong. P
SJ Astralana
Syncore
#10 - 2014-08-13 21:49:53 UTC  |  Edited by: SJ Astralana
Other than responding as quickly as possible to cost changes, my model and portfolio are unchanged in Crius. Comparing my operation for the 22 days of Crius vs the 22 days prior, my GP% has risen by about 10%. Profits are down about 10%, due primarily to getting spanked by a team I can't for the moment match but also due to strongly sagging material costs across the board (which means the real value of my isk is higher), but that frees up a good chunk of capital and I'm starting just today to add to my portfolio.

Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager

Firvain
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2014-08-14 08:03:28 UTC
Retar Aveymone wrote:
my margins are so obscenely high i can't even calculate them


Mine are so high i dont even bother calculating them
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2014-08-14 10:19:23 UTC
i mine my own minerals, my margin is always 100%
Nalha Saldana
The Vomit Comets
#13 - 2014-08-14 11:38:29 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
i mine my own minerals, my margin is always 100%


You still have the difference between selling the ore / minerals and the product, there is no free production.
Maekchu
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2014-08-14 11:43:32 UTC
Qmamoto Kansuke wrote:
Yes ladies and gents anyone who follows recent trend would notice the amount of threads about dying margins, this has been in motion ever since crius hit.Ccp refuses to acknowledge this despite the large count of times this has been brought to them at current rate they stand to lose more subs because its inevitable when someone has no profit doing what he has done for ages he is most likely to quit than find another item to build, bu wait there's more!Some might say well yer lazy yada there's still a lot items you can build for profit and i say to you for how long?Eventually we will be left with few profitable items and its going to be like jita 0.001 isk fights all day long over those few good items.For casual players that's a game killer.

So there's only one solution me and few mates have already been doing this(one my friends has 35 accountsShocked ) we decided to show CCP what they refuse to see the margins on 90% of the ingame items will die until 2015 is over.What we do is pick an X item and we burn its margin and after that make just enough to keep the margin from ever raising back again.So join me in our quest to open CCPs eyes that they need to UP the production times again to their old values else this game goes in the trash bin.

Bring up MARGINGEDON!LolTwisted
DEATH TO ALL MARGINS!!!

Instead of manufacturing for a loss, how about you just send me the ISK?

I will totally make sure the ISK is spent in promoting, increased margins for industrialists.
MonkeyBusiness Thiesant
Pandemic Unicorns
#15 - 2014-08-14 12:23:28 UTC
Guess it depends what you're selling. If build cost went up in a market with large stockpiles.......

For me, margins are higher than ever. I won't pretend that's because of genius-level foresight, it was just luck.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#16 - 2014-08-14 13:47:32 UTC
I'm still netting about 2.5B/mo running a single POS. Don't know what you're doing. But clearly you're doing it wrong.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Korsiri
Defying Vision
Iron Associates
#17 - 2014-08-15 00:14:58 UTC
It is harder for some smaller industrialists* because the margins are so slight that changes in the market affect them much more rapidly and it's harder to sit out market corrections - or predict them accurately, I find. Mind you, I'm not saying manufacture at a loss - you should never do that. I'm speaking in terms of manufacturing things such as ammo and other basic first items industrialists tend to start with. So, now that you've recognized your margins are too low, or you can't/don't want to wait out the market correction: it's time to move to a more lucrative item to manufacture, something with better margins. I'll leave it to you to find said item(s).

Anyway just my two isk.



*smaller to me, is as regards number of production lines running, number of BPO/BPCs - not so much what you're making per se. Just a personal description I tend to use, I'm sure others most likely have their own.
brinelan
#18 - 2014-08-15 00:28:48 UTC
Why is it ccp's job to mess with profits and the market? it isnt. theres too many people doing industry and the markets are still not settled.

Go do something else and come back once the markets settle down to the new normal.
Lewis Ranieri
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#19 - 2014-08-15 01:31:21 UTC
Capitalism is all about creative destruction. Progress in one industry always destroys another, at the expense of the overall wealth increasing. You are BlockBuster. Meet Netflix.
Qmamoto Kansuke
Killing with pink power
Penguins with lasorz
#20 - 2014-08-15 10:58:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Qmamoto Kansuke
Lol like i said im not producing at loss, but I see more and more things that goes absurdly low since crius I will give you just one example that I used to build long time ago Adaptive invul t2s pre-crius these things were in the 2.2m range and were super profitable to build right now no matter how tight you squeeze that index you're going to be building them at loss unless you're t2 bpo owner i suppose.I will find those items you still build at profit and i will crush their margins.Twisted
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