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Infinite point = Infinite warp Stab
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Ms Forums
Doomheim
#21 - 2014-08-13 15:47:03 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
If I netted an elephant will I slow it down 60 percent or will the elephant speed me up 60 percent? (Hint: 2 plus 2 is not equal to 5).

Elephants Forever wrote:
Q: How fast can elephants run?
A: Elephants can only run short distances at a time because of their considerable size and weight. They reach a top running speed of approximately 40km (25 miles) an hour. This is a speed that rivals even the fastest humans.

Lesson here: NEVER throw a net on an elephant!

Eve Restored
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#22 - 2014-08-13 15:52:05 UTC
Tippia wrote:
For targeted infinipoints? No. There is no counter. That would kind of defeat the purpose.
For bubbles and the like, there are only specific ship abilities.


mjd and mmjd sort of counter it in those ships that can fit it.

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Valeria Ghost
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2014-08-13 15:52:26 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
I used to trespass all over nullsec in a Cyclone and did that with one ship for three years.

How?

Infinite WCS? No!

MWD? No!

Double my sub costs and get a scout? Hell No!

Join an alliance and use a JB network? No!


One simple rule: no gates, just wormholes.

Three years. The only time I saw a bubble or HIC was on D-scan.


This just goes to show that gates are the problem, not infinite point HICS or sebo'ed tacklers or OGB (a problem in it's own). However, since CCP addressed the imbalance of "tiny guns killing big ships in two seconds" and tanked up the indies, I hope to see a day when warp core strength becomes just as attached to the size of the hull as is warp speed. After all, if a large ship is sooooo heavy that it warps slower, then it's going to have one motherhumper of a warp core with lots of power, right? Meaning that a little frigate cannot muster the power to shut it down. The same goes for web. If I netted an elephant will I slow it down 60 percent or will the elephant speed me up 60 percent? (Hint: 2 plus 2 is not equal to 5).


These are simple things that would enrich the game. Also think of the ISK sink that battleships could become if people would use them.



or maybe the warp core of huge ships is so complex that it's very easy to disrupt with just minor imbalances in the warp field. whereas the warp core of a small ship is very simple and can easily be kept functional. Thus a big ship should easily be warpscrambled while small ships would need mutliple scrams to prevent them from warping.

Aah even better maybe big ships should need smaller ships that help them warp because alone its just to complex to establish a warpfield necessary for that kind fo mass.

It's easy to argue both ways. Tbh it's better to leave this stuff as it is right now, your suggestion would just overcomplicate stuff even more than it already is in eve.
GreenSeed
#24 - 2014-08-13 16:10:03 UTC
infipoint is more of a slang than a real thing, its just the effect the focus scripted HIC module applies. if you had 100 individual points on a titan it could still move away. what i mean is that the Warp strength calculations (where stabs add their +warp strength) simply are not a part of this, if you are a super pilot either you are under HIC point, or not.

if you are on a subcap, then you have to get out of the bubble, MJDs do the trick, and have pretty much obsoleted HICs, specially after the addition of the MMJDs... HICs used to have a small role on medium fleets, now any fleet fielding a CS doctrine or T1 equivalent will just /lol at the bubbles. and cruisers will just kill you and move on. (CCP really needs to buff HICs, every other ship got a boost to they damage output, HICs still have the same tank ...)

that said, hell no. the best counter to HIC tackle is subcaps on grid, a small group of ruptures/hurricanes can deal with any tackle even if the tackle has a support fleet on site, because HICs can't get outside assistance when activating their point (bubble or infi). so any fleet looking to tackle a super with support, already needs to field 2 or 3 HICs along with double that number of hulls as backup already pre fitted in nearby stations...

the point is, its already too complicated to tackle a capital.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#25 - 2014-08-13 16:48:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
Tippia wrote:
For targeted infinipoints? No. There is no counter. That would kind of defeat the purpose.
For bubbles and the like, there are only specific ship abilities.

mjd and mmjd sort of counter it in those ships that can fit it.

Sure, but so are any other propulsion mods. Hell, in some cases you don't even need mods to do any of that — just fly away and with some luck, the HIC won't be able to follow.

I mean, in a sense, “stop being around” is the ultimate counter to everything the enemy might throw at you. Blink
Elusive Panda
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#26 - 2014-08-13 16:53:14 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
This is a brilliant idea.. too bad having an infinite WCS will do nothing.

Why? Because all ships have a warp strength of 1, it just takes a single warp scram/dist to make your warp strength 0, thus no warp.

So and infinite WCS vs and Infinite point... infinity - infinity = 0. You are still scrambled. You would need 2, and then the counter... two infinite points. So nothing really changes.


Actually no: (Infinity - Infinity) = Undefined

Much like a division by zero, you could argue that by using limits it TENDS that way, but the correct operation itself does not have a result.
Black Widovv
Ars ex Discordia
#27 - 2014-08-13 17:52:53 UTC
ECM is your counter.
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2014-08-13 18:02:05 UTC
All these guys are wrong ofcourse. The only solution is not to undock. Trust me on this one.

Sugar Von MurdererTits : Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#29 - 2014-08-13 18:12:02 UTC
RegardIess wrote:
I was just noticing that in game there are a few options for what someone calls an "infinite point" where as it has strength of up to 99 and basically makes it impossible to warp off. I think this is pretty dang awesome bonus, ship, and module.

My question is, is there a counter tactic? A ship or module that allows to be impossibly warp jammed? Maybe it has penalties too like zero targeting range or something to make it just an exploration ship.

If you have one tactic should there always be a counter? IS there one already you would like to share?

thank you for your time.


The counter is explosions.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2014-08-13 18:24:56 UTC
Val'Dore wrote:
RegardIess wrote:
I was just noticing that in game there are a few options for what someone calls an "infinite point" where as it has strength of up to 99 and basically makes it impossible to warp off. I think this is pretty dang awesome bonus, ship, and module.

My question is, is there a counter tactic? A ship or module that allows to be impossibly warp jammed? Maybe it has penalties too like zero targeting range or something to make it just an exploration ship.

If you have one tactic should there always be a counter? IS there one already you would like to share?

thank you for your time.


The counter is explosions.

and they need to be TORGE-LIKE EXPLOSIONS. With lots of FIRE, heat and CAPSLOCK, for extra EXPLOSION RAGE AND AIR GUITAR SOLO.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#31 - 2014-08-13 18:27:47 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:
RegardIess wrote:
I was just noticing that in game there are a few options for what someone calls an "infinite point" where as it has strength of up to 99 and basically makes it impossible to warp off. I think this is pretty dang awesome bonus, ship, and module.

My question is, is there a counter tactic? A ship or module that allows to be impossibly warp jammed? Maybe it has penalties too like zero targeting range or something to make it just an exploration ship.

If you have one tactic should there always be a counter? IS there one already you would like to share?

thank you for your time.


The counter is explosions.

and they need to be TORGE-LIKE EXPLOSIONS. With lots of FIRE, heat and CAPSLOCK, for extra EXPLOSION RAGE AND AIR GUITAR SOLO.


And midgets with MOAR EXPLOSIONS CANNONS.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2014-08-13 18:30:39 UTC
Val'Dore wrote:
Grimpak wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:
RegardIess wrote:
I was just noticing that in game there are a few options for what someone calls an "infinite point" where as it has strength of up to 99 and basically makes it impossible to warp off. I think this is pretty dang awesome bonus, ship, and module.

My question is, is there a counter tactic? A ship or module that allows to be impossibly warp jammed? Maybe it has penalties too like zero targeting range or something to make it just an exploration ship.

If you have one tactic should there always be a counter? IS there one already you would like to share?

thank you for your time.


The counter is explosions.

and they need to be TORGE-LIKE EXPLOSIONS. With lots of FIRE, heat and CAPSLOCK, for extra EXPLOSION RAGE AND AIR GUITAR SOLO.


And midgets with MOAR EXPLOSIONS CANNONS.

WHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2014-08-13 18:59:23 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
This is a brilliant idea.. too bad having an infinite WCS will do nothing.

Why? Because all ships have a warp strength of 1, it just takes a single warp scram/dist to make your warp strength 0, thus no warp.

So and infinite WCS vs and Infinite point... infinity - infinity = 0. You are still scrambled. You would need 2, and then the counter... two infinite points. So nothing really changes.

I guess we can pretend that this kind of math works outside of calculating limits in calculus.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
Jarod Garamonde
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2014-08-13 19:08:50 UTC
RegardIess wrote:
I was just noticing that in game there are a few options for what someone calls an "infinite point" where as it has strength of up to 99 and basically makes it impossible to warp off. I think this is pretty dang awesome bonus, ship, and module.

My question is, is there a counter tactic? A ship or module that allows to be impossibly warp jammed? Maybe it has penalties too like zero targeting range or something to make it just an exploration ship.

If you have one tactic should there always be a counter? IS there one already you would like to share?

thank you for your time.


For bubbles: Interdiction Nullifier Subsystem. Interceptor immunity. Not warping gate-to-gate.

For targeted "infinipoint": Having a support fleet to kill the HIC. Proper scouting. A cyno pilot that knows WTF they're doing. Target breakers. Not travelling alone.


There's all sorts of counters. Think outside the box instead of asking CCP for another module that makes you not have to put forth effort.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
RegardIess
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2014-08-13 19:20:29 UTC
Some interesting thoughts and ideas here. I thank you all for putting effort into your reasoning.

I did not ask CCP to make me a module, I posed a simple question.

Most things in EVE have a solid counter measure, this module doesn't seem to have that.

I have a good amount of information here to digest and think about, I think myself it's tough to change something without throwing other things into chaos.. but it would be nice to have a exploration ship that had an ability.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#36 - 2014-08-13 19:23:58 UTC  |  Edited by: DaReaper
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
This is a brilliant idea.. too bad having an infinite WCS will do nothing.

Why? Because all ships have a warp strength of 1, it just takes a single warp scram/dist to make your warp strength 0, thus no warp.

So and infinite WCS vs and Infinite point... infinity - infinity = 0. You are still scrambled. You would need 2, and then the counter... two infinite points. So nothing really changes.

I guess we can pretend that this kind of math works outside of calculating limits in calculus.



right, because as in game it would work that way, I'm fairly sure its not an infinity point just some super high number. the point being, they would cancel eachother out and you'd be scrambled.

dumb idea is still dumb regardless how real world math n physics would work. And hey, i'm not a math major, had to take algebra 4 times cause it never stuck for placement test =)

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#37 - 2014-08-13 21:07:55 UTC
How about...

1. Target Spectrum Breakers.

2. (Burst) ECM.

3. 20 friends waiting on the other side of the gate. Pirate
JOSAL EXAN
Obertura
#38 - 2014-08-13 21:23:34 UTC
There is. Check http://www.eveiverse.com/items/cockroach

But I doubt you can find one. If you do, please can I buy it from you.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#39 - 2014-08-13 21:35:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Heh, you want an infinite warp stab? Nevermind that you're ignoring that infinipoint is in fact a counter to capital ships, I have a counter proposal for you.

No ship anywhere should be allowed to have more than one warp stab, since as a concept they are hilariously overpowered in any area of space where you can't put up drag bubbles.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
General Nusense
Doomheim
#40 - 2014-08-13 21:57:56 UTC
RegardIess wrote:
I was just noticing that in game there are a few options for what someone calls an "infinite point" where as it has strength of up to 99 and basically makes it impossible to warp off. I think this is pretty dang awesome bonus, ship, and module.

My question is, is there a counter tactic? A ship or module that allows to be impossibly warp jammed? Maybe it has penalties too like zero targeting range or something to make it just an exploration ship.

If you have one tactic should there always be a counter? IS there one already you would like to share?

thank you for your time.


ECM, Cloak, not being a bad.

3 good choices to avoid your issue.

Made a signature so I am taken seriously on the forums, since thats the only thing they are good for.