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WIS - What was wrong with just using Unreal or any other engine???

Author
Beaches
#21 - 2011-12-08 23:26:14 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Also, all of you who think it's performing badly, have you tried turning it down from maximum quality? For me the difference is 30 vs 60 fps. As to how **** the graphics look, I pretty much don't care, I'm still happily playing games like KOTOR 1 every now and again and I'm still content. Graphical glitz matters little past the initial few minutes of "whoa", I'd much rather they spent their time making mechanics that make sense, and makes the gaming experience itself more fun and more immersive. vOv



I think that CCP's thought process was a little bit like

"Hmm, the better this looks, the more they'll probably pay for the NEX items. Let's hire some design consultants who can make clothes which will live up to these graphics. Oh yeah, beautiful graphics, designer clothes they will be blown away by this stunning glitz, they'll pay top dollar. Gah, I am so excited."
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2011-12-08 23:31:14 UTC
To be fair, everyone is focusing way too much on graphics these days. Back in the doom/quake days, it had merit, because great strides were being made all the time. These days, improvements are incremental at best, yet people are still actually ragging on eachother because "your game has worse graphics than my game, therefore my game is better than your game", even though both games, gameplay-wise, is **** and has 5 hours of SP gameplay. All the while games budgets spiral out of control due to all the art etc that has to be created.

vOv

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

GeoffWICE
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2011-12-08 23:33:42 UTC
dont get me wrong, im not saying that ccp should use unreal, just saying it would be posible with the excetion being number of players in any given system.
its not like eve in its current form doesnt have that issue anyway its just that the numbers will be diferent.
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#24 - 2011-12-08 23:36:44 UTC
Dusty Meg wrote:
Dust uses a modified version of the unreal engine so dont think the licensing issues are there.


A number of PS3 games use the Unreal engine, but whether license fees apply is dependent on how 'modified' the engine actually is. If it's still substantially the Unreal engine in terms of programming, the fees are still valid, but if it's been modified to the point where it's no longer recognizable as 'the Unreal Engine', I think separate regulations apply.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....

Ottersmacker
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#25 - 2011-12-08 23:38:15 UTC
the now-cancelled Stargate Worlds was planned to be a persistent MMO that would use some variety of UE3, so at least in theory it should be relatively possible.

i just locked an open door.. strange, yet symbolically compelling.

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#26 - 2011-12-09 00:30:22 UTC
Something about warp targets and character creativity at reduced memory costs.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#27 - 2011-12-09 00:48:34 UTC
Dusty Meg wrote:
Dust uses a modified version of the unreal engine so dont think the licensing issues are there.

…except for it being a smaller team; the engine them instant-access middleware for a completely different platform; the engine being used for what it does best (and at a scale that it's known to handle well); and except that they're building that game from scratch rather than trying to squeeze an existing game into it.

So licensing for that purpose and that team is cheaper than trying to roll it alone, unlike EVE/WoD.
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#28 - 2011-12-09 01:42:08 UTC
Because they wanted to do their own engine for WoD, as they did for EVE.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment

Bane Loppknow
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2011-12-09 01:42:12 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
You know the performance issue in CQ is interesting anyway.

I was mildly disappointed when I found that even at lower settings my Nvidia GeForce 8800 GTS (a fairly outdated card now) slowed down to 5 fps when in the CQ.

Finally I decided it was time to clean the guts of my computer, and discovered that the fan had gotten a bit clogged on the video card.

After I cleaned it and popped it back in I was pleasantly surprised to find that not only could I now turn the graphics up to maximum, I was getting 15-20 fps at that level.

Point being, people getting really poor frame rates or over heating their cards really, really should bite the bullet and actually give that card a good cleaning. I know it's a crap job that nobody wants to do, but it very well could improve your entire EVE experience and is well worth the trouble.


You expect people to conduct basic maintenance on their computers?!
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#30 - 2011-12-09 02:31:48 UTC  |  Edited by: non judgement
Ranger 1 wrote:
You know the performance issue in CQ is interesting anyway.

I was mildly disappointed when I found that even at lower settings my Nvidia GeForce 8800 GTS (a fairly outdated card now) slowed down to 5 fps when in the CQ.

Finally I decided it was time to clean the guts of my computer, and discovered that the fan had gotten a bit clogged on the video card.

After I cleaned it and popped it back in I was pleasantly surprised to find that not only could I now turn the graphics up to maximum, I was getting 15-20 fps at that level.

Point being, people getting really poor frame rates or over heating their cards really, really should bite the bullet and actually give that card a good cleaning. I know it's a crap job that nobody wants to do, but it very well could improve your entire EVE experience and is well worth the trouble.

I have a geforce 9800 GT and I can run 4 clients okay with medium settings. Even in CQ which is meant to be worse. I really didn't know what all the fuss was about. Of course it does get a bit hot, I haven't checked the temp of it but my computer has it only crashed once or twice and that was mainly due to really hot days. The days that it gets over 33°C outside and my room gets a bit too hot for running 4 EVE clients. But on those days I'm mostly trying to keep cool and don't really want to sit next to my hot computer. I thought about getting a new video card but it seems to be doing okay for the moment.

On the note of WiS. When I was watching the fanfest videos of some of it. I got the feeling like they were saying that it would scale well and have nice graphics whether you had lots of avatars in a room or not. Did people start thinking CCPs technology couldn't handle many avatars in the one room when the CQ first came out and it was "melting" video cards? I haven't seen much information from CCP recently about how well WiS can handle lots of people in the one room since CQ came out. Wouldn't want to make assumptions about it and then start saying why not use other engines. We haven't really seen what this one can do.

Edit: We all know Jita can reach well over 1000 in station. I like to think that CCP would work towards having something that can handle Jita before releasing WiS.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#31 - 2011-12-09 02:39:48 UTC
I have a Core 2 duo trying to run with a 550ti GTX and still only get 15fps but I am also running my art software eating up 2gb at a given time. A second Client and a few dozen other things here and there.

I am surprised my computer hasnt turned in its burn notice yet.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#32 - 2011-12-09 02:46:08 UTC
Did no one ever read the devblogs about incarna, WoD and the incarna engine?

This is not just CCP's engine. If you read the history of it, CCP in assoc with Nvidia and the american fashion industry developed the incarna engine. Your character creator is the incarna engine. Same with CQ. And IIRC CCP is now renting out this engine to fashion designers to make money.

besides.

Serious 3 engine > unreal

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.

Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2011-12-09 02:51:35 UTC
Because the Unreal Engine cannot do what the CARBON engine can.

This engine is gorgeous and is quite frankly the best looking one I've seen. After being in Captain's Quarters, then going to play other games like Skyrim to compare, It's easy to see where CCP's development money has gone.

It is well invested, it just needs a LOT of work before it's up to scratch. When WiS is at a point where we're in establishments, I believe people asking questions like this will eat their words.

CCP needs to start licensing this engine out to others. Start with the law enforcement community.

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement

Flamespar
WarRavens
#34 - 2011-12-09 04:41:15 UTC
Morganta wrote:

can you actually use unreal for a persistent mmog?


Oh yes, Mortal online uses the unreal engine, and it is a beautifully rendered piece of ****. Roll
Sri Nova
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2011-12-09 04:59:50 UTC
The unreal engine would not be able to handle what eve does on a daily basis.

Carbon was meant to work seamless with eve

and i believe CCP came pretty close to accomplishing that feat. as cap'n quarters prove.

where carbon failed was not the technology but what was developed for it . and it may have been the content creation for carbon that was its undoing . since it renders such beautiful graphics it demands much more than some silly models you can crunch out in a week. creating that kind of content has proved to be challenging . i would not doubt there is other hurdles also such as interactivity and hooking things up to eve its self.

besides as CCP has said before the reason eve is special is because there is nothing else like it on the planet.

eve and carbon is the only engine capable of doing this . (take one of the most recent gaming engines for example... swtor while it may be a highly polished ground based mmo its space content is nothing more than a shooter on rails. )

its easy not to appreciate the complexity of what eve is, only thing coming close would have been earth and beyond and at its best it still was only a 3rd maybe even a 5th of what eve is .

even if eve's code base is 10+ years old what it manages to accomplish is still pretty cutting edge. and i dare say there is no engine out there that could outperform it .

im not writing this as a fanboi, i have played many a mmo and none have come close to what eve accomplishes.
Nyio
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2011-12-09 05:17:56 UTC
The character creator and the CQ is indeed amazing looking, but it ends there. It's only amazing looking and nothing else to be honest. That kind of graphic level is probably ahead of it's time and that's very neat when you think of the small (compared to other) company that achieved making it..

But we live now in the present and most people won't get a new computer and OS just to be able to login to a room where you slowly can walk around infront of a mirror and nothing more. Sure they made us that's left in-game get new graphics cards..

I think that CCP should have first focused on the fashion market (for realz) with all that, to get profit and time to make it better before putting it into EVE.

This has probably been said already somewhere alot of times, but there you go, my 5ISK.


(I'm not raging nor bitter over anything, just telling it as I see it.)
Flamespar
WarRavens
#37 - 2011-12-09 05:21:05 UTC
Sri Nova wrote:

where carbon failed was not the technology but what was developed for it . and it may have been the content creation for carbon that was its undoing . since it renders such beautiful graphics it demands much more than some silly models you can crunch out in a week. creating that kind of content has proved to be challenging . i would not doubt there is other hurdles also such as interactivity and hooking things up to eve its self.


Well I spose in 18 months time when CCP gets back to Incarna computing power will have increased to the point where it can handle it.

I wonder if CCP was a little too forward thinking in regards to incarna. Technology creep is what they call it isn't it?
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#38 - 2011-12-09 07:23:27 UTC
Wait Wait!!! I know this one!!!!

nVidia sold CCP some snake oil, I've seen this in real life!! Got them to bet all their vampires on a new unproven engine and rendering pipeline that would have sold a lot of their high end hardware, even added space madness induced craziness like server based rendering farms in a real time MMORPG!!!

I might has well sold them on finding all the gnomes and little people in Iceland to draw the images on the server in real time!

CCP bet of Pi yellow on a roulette wheel when the number and color doesn't exist. We all suffer as a result.

So they sold their cow for magic beans and got a burrito!

Issler

Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2011-12-09 08:18:31 UTC
NIH

also probably some stuff about dynamic lighting and floating clothes.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#40 - 2011-12-09 08:43:44 UTC
Taking a mod friendly engine built for a single player game and putting it in an MMO is a recipe for disaster.

Have a look at the problems that are happening with many of the F2P games that have tried it. Bots and hacks are more common than regular players.

No... a proprietary engine is the way to go. No licensing fees and no script kiddies jumping in on day one with hacks proven to work with whatever engine CCP happens to rent.

They're doing it right. Just taking way to long to do it.

Mr Epeen Cool