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Wormhole changes POV / Vote
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Rob Cobb
Probe Patrol
#1 - 2014-08-11 19:59:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Rob Cobb
OnePilot's perspective on Hyperion's wormhole changes, as both a PVPer and a PVE'er.

Background:

I was in Polarized(dot), Awakened(dot), and am currently in Ixtab(dot).
I maintain my own seperate wormhole for "bearing", because capitals cost isk, and alts cost plex.

I will write my two seperate perspectives for each change going down the list, and will add straw polls for each wormhole change in post #2 for you to voice your opinions in a quantified way to CCP.


Wormhole changes

Wormhole effect rebalance:

PVP - More wormhole systems are now inhabitable, which means the potential for more targets and more systems for people to "try out" wormholes and see if they enjoy them. Generally I think this is a positive change and look forward to the new theory crafting.[

PVE - More wormhole systems to live in, new changes to adapt to, new challenges, ability to use more static connections for pve too, a positive change.

More randomly spawning w-space to w-space wormholes:

PVP - Larger chains to hunt in, however probably fewer targets to find due to the mass based spawn distance on jump changes listed below, mixed opinion.

PVE - More wormholes to collapse, more potential connections to large PVP entities, means more time rolling or more time sat in POS doing nothing, bad change.

C4's having dual statics:

PVP - Increases the connectivity of w-space within w-space, a good change, more hunting grounds, and makes C4's more habitable, increase w-space population and number of targets, good change, however this AND the increase in randomly spawning w-space to w-space connections seems a little too overpowered and may reduce the w-space population due to too much need for rolling, therefore mixed opinions.

PVE - Harder to roll 2 connections constantly, but allows you to take avdantage of those connections more. C4 space was becoming more populated anyways due to the isk an hour for a solo pve pilot being the highest in eve using marauders... 500m an hour doing frontier barracks in a magnetar anyone? With the increased random wormholes, this may prove to make PVE impossible. Mixed opinions

Frigate w-space to w-space wormholes with regenerating mass:

PVP - Only good as backdoors for scouts, don't want to risk T3/Capital pod's in assault frigates/ceptors vs T3's and HIC's, so a not a good or bad change, however if they went from w-space to null sec, it would be good to do hit and runs with interceptors.

PVE - Unable to close these, therefore a good reason to stay in pos, who wants a cloaky dic to come in with a scout, and then scan an entrance for their fleet to come up the chain and kill you?

Mass based spawn distances from wormholes:

PVP - Kills the ability to rage roll for targets, makes it nigh on impossible to field caps or use carriers for logistics, hurts PVP fleets and gives fewer capitals to kill. This will also mean resortign to more kitey ships, less brawling, and more "gate camping" of wormholes. We moved to wormhole space to avoid this meta, this is a huge mistake CCP. If we dont like low or null because of the meta, and you take our brawling meta away from us, why stay in wormholes? why not go to null or low? why not play another game?. Terrible change.

PVE - Coupled with the more w-space to w-space connections, the ability to remove defensive collapsing means more time in POS, or moving out of wormholes. Train your alts into carriers and join brothers of tangra! or unsubscribe. Turning POS spinning 80% of the time to 90% of the time is a terrible change. Kill it.

K126 appearance on first jump:

PVP - Gives a few extra seconds to catch prey when rolling (if rage rolling is still viable and we aren't "gate camping" wormholes) which is good, positive change. However, null sec/low sec/high sec players will no longer activate as many outbound connections, they will right click, see it goes to dangerous unknown and not jump.
Null sec just got a lot safer. So PVP is going to have to be primarily focussed on camping wormholes in w-space which are emptying of targets due to the earlier points. This is a case of taking a good idea and not thinking it through, then shooting yourself in the foot. Scrap this idea CPP.

PVE - Means less wormholes (incoming from low/null) to collapse, which is a good thing, however less exits to evac assets and bring in fuel/ammo/strontium, so mixed opinion on this one.

Loosening of bookmark restrictions:

PVP - Great for alliances sharing bookmarks between corps, thank you CCP!

PVE - Easier to share bookmarks with out of corp alts/alliances, thank you again CCP!

After thoughts:

These changes generally hurt the W-space meta we love, favouring Null sec, both making it safer for them, and giving them more pilots due the the pilots who wont be able to adapt to the new changes. This seems more like CCP changing some numbers in some code to make a "big" change with minimal effort. Gone are the days when we saw actual NEW content in the game, such as incursion, wormholes, etc.

Small gangs and corps are going to be hit the hardest in wormholes, so don't expect them to stay around, time for power blocks and gate camping.

Considering the previous updates were to the scanner (not broke don't fix it), high sec POCO's (pay for nullsec SRP), ships skins (barbies), ghost sites (named because you never see them), loot spew (didn't want that anyways) and nothing really major for the average pilot, this seems like another half assed-attempt at providing updates with minimal effort. The one thing wormholers wanted more than anything was POS changes, guess that was too hard... these new updates are not a valid compromise.

Regards,
Rob
Rob Cobb
Probe Patrol
#2 - 2014-08-11 19:59:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Rob Cobb
Saar Ynier
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-08-11 20:36:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Saar Ynier
I already started a poll which got trolled to hell. But worth seeing the current statistics on it. (I am somewhat suprised)
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-08-11 23:25:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Down with the small guy I say. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the C5/C6 kitchen!

I think the changes are for the best Rob, and the affect on your ability to farm isn't a reason not to implement them... Blink

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Winthorp
#5 - 2014-08-11 23:49:55 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Down with the small guy I say. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the C5/C6 kitchen!

I think the changes are for the best Rob, and the affect on your ability to farm isn't a reason not to implement them... Blink


So much this. The days of everyone with an alt escalation corp or safe C4 Marauder all the time need to end, if you want that much risk free ISK you gotta risk a little too.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-08-11 23:55:06 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Down with the small guy I say. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the C5/C6 kitchen!

I literally felt my IQ drop when I read this...

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

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Electric M0nk
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-08-12 00:22:53 UTC
Hyperion = CFC occupation of Wormhole space. Congrats on electing a GOON positive CSM.

I believe for you.
Peter Moonlight
Suddenly Carebears
Verlate
#8 - 2014-08-12 00:31:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Peter Moonlight
Idea #1:
It would be awesome to have some kind of random connections that connect people that are actually doing some kind of activity or possibly 2 groups having a lot of activity, for example randomly connecting 2 wormholes where there in both holes 2 separate fleets are doing sites and I'm not talking only about C5/C6 here, I'm talking for example, 2 C4's getting randomly connected when they are in sites, and they both have several pilots online, or c2 and a c3, I could bet that would make such awesome situations and fights sometimes. This could be done maybe via, connecting 2 wormholes with a lot of NPC kills at similar time and that could be pulled from NPC kill API that we don't have acess to anymore, or 2 holes with a lot of gas sites cleared, 2 holes with many statics rolled in a short amount of time, that way CCP could make much more content, at the same time connecting random classes of wormholes where they share the similar or different activity, but anything is better then scanning empty chains for hours. The trigger for the random active wormholes could be a lot of NPC kills, and for example you get such active random connection every 1-2-3 days, or based on how much NPC's you kill you are in bigger danger.
That is also one more way to slow down ragerolling if that is CCP's concern so much, so people will focus much more on defense fleets, and wormhole closing crews.

Ex:
(FC talk before starting anomalies in a C4 where they are a mid-sized pvp group and doing pve in C4 wormholes.)

FC: Okay guys, we are about to start anomalies soon, we have been doing sites 2 days in a row and we cleared a lot of NPC's today is a 3rd day and we may have a random k162 where we can get attacked in sites or we may have a chance to attack someone else doing some activity with decent amount of pilots. Prepare your pvp ships, so you can quickly re-ship incase we connect to them.

(in this case if you are lucky and you are on the right side of the random hole you can know that someone is on the other side possibly doing something or they were doing recently, you can prepare your fleet in pvp ships, since you are having the time to do that because of the new sig spawn on first jump mechanic.)

Idea #2: All the group that were recently (last few months), having a lot of NPC activity in C4 space in their given holes, they could have their new 2nd static being a high class or anything that makes their lifes more interesting/dangerous rather then giving some active groups 2nd static C1 for example, because that could kill some active corporations. Also another way to make C4s more alive is to make them have more/most random connections, when they are doing something actively in their hole.
Axloth Okiah
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2014-08-12 06:57:11 UTC
Electric M0nk wrote:
Hyperion = CFC occupation of Wormhole space.
uhm... how?

SSC Brokering Service
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2014-08-12 07:43:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Jack Miton wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Down with the small guy I say. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the C5/C6 kitchen!

I literally felt my IQ drop when I read this...


That's probably your balls finally dropping kid. Congrats! Smile


Btw, I was only being half serious but if you think it's good that small groups can farm c5/6 space in relative safety, I'd love to hear why...

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Rob Cobb
Probe Patrol
#11 - 2014-08-12 16:13:00 UTC
because they actually give targets, if they arent there, and only the large pvp corps alliances remained... there would only be like 10 occupied wormholes
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2014-08-12 18:15:11 UTC
With the proposed update, CCP aren't really stopping people from doing anything they currently do, they are just making it riskier and more time consuming.

C5/C6 space shouldn't be easy mode. IMO if a corp isn't strong enough to live in a high class wormhole and accept the new riskier mechanics, then they should move to a lower class system.

Once the risk averse farmers move out, hopefully the site values will rise and attract braver pilots/corps.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Rob Cobb
Probe Patrol
#13 - 2014-08-12 23:23:19 UTC
site value is predominantly blue loot, it wont change, the mnr is a higher percentage of the site value in low class wormholes
Adriana Nolen
Sama Guild
#14 - 2014-08-13 01:45:50 UTC
What's gonna happen is consolidation. Same **** happened in null.

Does it mean more or less content {PVP}? I don't know. I'll just be the pleb running cap escalations with insured caps & call it day.
AssassinationsdoneWrong
Deep Core Mining Inc.
#15 - 2014-08-15 07:34:22 UTC
Rob Cobb wrote:
Wormhole effects poll

Random w-space to w-space connections poll

Dual static C4's poll

Frigate only w-space to w-space regenerating connection's poll

Mass based spawn distances's poll

K126 appearance on first jump poll

Bookmark restrictions poll

Please only vote once (vote duplication checking is on) and only if you are affected by these changes.

I'm so not worried about the K126 changes that it's mention didn't even register with me.
Those K162 changes need looking at though .....

The Nexus 7's

What we fall short of in numbers we more than make up for in stupidity
Pavel Sohaj
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2014-08-15 08:05:11 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
With the proposed update, CCP aren't really stopping people from doing anything they currently do, they are just making it riskier and more time consuming.

C5/C6 space shouldn't be easy mode. IMO if a corp isn't strong enough to live in a high class wormhole and accept the new riskier mechanics, then they should move to a lower class system.

Once the risk averse farmers move out, hopefully the site values will rise and attract braver pilots/corps.


More risk if there is mroe rewards. What I get now is more risk aimed to kicking small groups out of all kinds of WH classes so big guys can eventually reap bigger rewards. Seems legit. Goonish too.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2014-08-15 08:10:43 UTC
I agree that there should be more rewards... New T3 stuff would be a nice addition.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Pavel Sohaj
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2014-08-15 08:16:58 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
I agree that there should be more rewards... New T3 stuff would be a nice addition.


What I mostly dont get is why the lower classes are thsoe to suffer. Yes, in C5/C6 there should not be many groups of 10 ppl capable of farming, but those are not getting changed much.

On other hand, already empty C4s are getting more doors so those who live there can be killed even more now. I fail to see how that helps.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2014-08-15 08:34:25 UTC
No way dude, C4's are going to be awesome! I would happily live in one if i didn't like in a C5 red giant Smile

How are low class guys suffering?

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Pavel Sohaj
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2014-08-15 08:48:05 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
No way dude, C4's are going to be awesome! I would happily live in one if i didn't like in a C5 red giant Smile

How are low class guys suffering?


2 statics. Double the needed guard. More incoming WHs thatll be visible only when hunter is through. Not more isk payout. The increased traffic is not what is C4 problem. Its the lack of any content and access to high space for logistics, which makes living there hell.
now adding C5 to C4s as new static is hardly of any help. And believe it or not, alot of lower class WH residents want isk that holes provide. Few want to shoot stuff in blobs. Occasionally, you die, but then you farm more. If you just add more to the pvp side, soon there is nobody in low class WHs to shoot. It becomes null style again. Aint no fun in that. If theres so much cry for content for WHs, add 2nd static to C5 and C6. Can be fun and more pvp.

The whole argument that C4s are most unused, ofc - C1 to C3 have kspace access, C5 and C6 too. C4s got nuffin. Adding 2nd nuffin aint helping.
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