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High Sec War Dec Mechanics

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#21 - 2014-08-11 07:46:40 UTC
Orion Nex wrote:

Then why not be able to sit in tutorial missions and kill noobs?


Because CCP says so, duh.

Quote:

This isn't a 100% open sandbox, I shouldn't even have to mark that statement.


Nothing is, or people wouldn't be banned for exploits.

But neither of those sentences refute my point, that you don't actually love the sandbox as you claim. To me, it rather seems as though you hate it, what with all your cries about how something shouldn't be allowed unless it's measurable "content". Which, by the way, is a really silly thing to say when you're trying to defend dec dodging.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Orion Nex
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2014-08-11 07:50:38 UTC
Glathull wrote:
Just fyi, tears--in general--are a totally legit in-game goal.


I agree, but in my opinion the stuff that CODE does provides this in more of the way I perceive Eve.

The stuff high sec war dec corps do seems to dance around the idea of high sec and take advantage of the "safety" new players feel high sec provides.

Again, these guys are NOT doing this for the fights . These wars have NOTHING to do with PvP. I hope we can at least drop this notion from the conversation.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#23 - 2014-08-11 07:55:29 UTC
Orion Nex wrote:

Again, these guys are NOT doing this for the fights . These wars have NOTHING to do with PvP. I hope we can at least drop this notion from the conversation.


No, because both of those statements are wrong.

Especially since pretty much the entire game is PvP in some form or another, thanks to how the market works.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Orion Nex
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2014-08-11 07:55:58 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Orion Nex wrote:

Then why not be able to sit in tutorial missions and kill noobs?


Because CCP says so, duh.

Quote:

This isn't a 100% open sandbox, I shouldn't even have to mark that statement.


Nothing is, or people wouldn't be banned for exploits.

But neither of those sentences refute my point, that you don't actually love the sandbox as you claim. To me, it rather seems as though you hate it, what with all your cries about how something shouldn't be allowed unless it's measurable "content". Which, by the way, is a really silly thing to say when you're trying to defend dec dodging.


What is the alternative for a 1 mil SP new player that is set up for mining, but to dodge the war dec? Let's try to get specific here instead of speaking to me like I'm your three year old child.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#25 - 2014-08-11 08:00:33 UTC
Orion Nex wrote:

What is the alternative for a 1 mil SP new player that is set up for mining, but to dodge the war dec?


Well, you do realize that even new players have gunnery skills, yes? And that, and I know this might come as a shock, fights are fun even if you lose?

Or hell, just don't mine, that's a good start right there. I can't think of a better way to cripple new player retention than by making people mine as their first impression of EVE.


Quote:

Let's try to get specific here instead of speaking to me like I'm your three year old child.


I find this statement hilarious coming from someone who attempted to belittle me by asking if you needed to "get crayons out". My literal three year old has enough of a grasp of the concept of irony to laugh at this.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Orion Nex
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2014-08-11 08:02:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Orion Nex
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Orion Nex wrote:

Again, these guys are NOT doing this for the fights . These wars have NOTHING to do with PvP. I hope we can at least drop this notion from the conversation.


No, because both of those statements are wrong.

Especially since pretty much the entire game is PvP in some form or another, thanks to how the market works.


So, you are saying that you are delusional?

I just told you that in 10 war decs ZERO ships were killed. Do you have an understanding of what zero means?

You honestly believe these high sec war dec corps want fights? My main is in a low sec PvP alliance and one of the big named Merc corps dec'd us. We fleeted up to go kick their teeth in and they run and hide. There is nothing about PvP in the sense your smart ass knows I'm talking about.

But I'm not telling you anything you don't know.
Orion Nex
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2014-08-11 08:07:04 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Orion Nex wrote:

What is the alternative for a 1 mil SP new player that is set up for mining, but to dodge the war dec?


Well, you do realize that even new players have gunnery skills, yes? And that, and I know this might come as a shock, fights are fun even if you lose?

Or hell, just don't mine, that's a good start right there. I can't think of a better way to cripple new player retention than by making people mine as their first impression of EVE.


Quote:

Let's try to get specific here instead of speaking to me like I'm your three year old child.


I find this statement hilarious coming from someone who attempted to belittle me by asking if you needed to "get crayons out". My literal three year old has enough of a grasp of the concept of irony to laugh at this.


You are the one who steered the conversation this way.

Now, go make me a sandwich.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#28 - 2014-08-11 08:11:36 UTC
Orion Nex wrote:

You honestly believe these high sec war dec corps want fights?


Yep. I'm a part of all of that, as well as a suicide ganker.



Quote:

My main is in a low sec PvP alliance


Well, then this next part should be interesting.

Post with your main.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2014-08-11 08:14:41 UTC
Orion Nex wrote:


I just told you that in 10 war decs ZERO ships were killed. Do you have an understanding of what zero means?


Don't be condescending. First off, your population sample is terrible. The alliance I'm usually part of would wardec frequently, and fight every time. We were getting kills through the roof. As the top killer of that alliance OVERALL, I can tell you we were getting plenty of fights with wardecs.

Orion Nex wrote:
You honestly believe these high sec war dec corps want fights? My main is in a low sec PvP alliance and one of the big named Merc corps dec'd us. We fleeted up to go kick their teeth in and they run and hide. There is nothing about PvP in the sense your smart ass knows I'm talking about.


Who were you fighting? Because it depends. Forsaken Asylum, Marmite, etc, yeah, if you bring them a fight they probably will run and hide. Pursuit of Happiness or Devil's Warrior on the other hand, or us... come at us, bro. Additionally, due to posting as an NPC, I'm calling you out on this. Post with your main if you expect us to believe it, otherwise, you're lying, and we have no reason to believe otherwise.

Orion Nex wrote:
But I'm not telling you anything you don't know.


Actually, you're not telling him anything at all. It is, in fact, you who lacks a great deal of the information you need to have a viable discussion on the topic of wardeccing. So please, be a doll and leave the grown-up stuff to the grown-ups. At least until you're older.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#30 - 2014-08-11 08:14:54 UTC
Dodging wardec is active reaction to other players' initiative, same as warping out when hostiles land on your grid. We may not like it but denial of fights is in fact way of interacting with universe. You want my moon so I will take it down and replace with one of my alt corp. You want to break my chain of logistics - I will use 3rd party for it. You want to "legally" gank my skiffs crunching ice - I drop corp and roll a new one.

You do one thing - I do another to counter yours. As I said, we might not like this all dodging and skulking around but at least one player made other do sth in response. Worst thing that happens is in fact "no undock until war is over" or even worse "no log in until war is over". Those 2 things are just plain wrong because you cut yourself out of your play time instead finding relatively easy way out of your situation.

There's always counter to in-game events, not always "e-honorable", not always nice, not always resulting in full victory but there's always a way. Kind of like flying cloaky in hostile areas - you have to choose your fights and GTFO when sh!t hits the fan even if it results in loss (of drones for example, or fat loot in container or whatever).

Wardecs are far from perfect but nobody should let them to become griefing tools that rob you out of play time you pay for. Look what James315 did at very beginning when people actually were wardeccing him. He rolled his corp ad nauseam and announced himself (and his stabber) invincible. He didn't let others to prevent him from getting max value out of his play time.

RL is full of bullies and sh!t you sometimes cannot prevent and you fail and bad things happen - but that's a RL. Here we have pixel spaceships and pixel villains and pixel consequences - you are free to do whatever you like and you don't have to worry about anything but pixels. What worst can happen, you will fly under another logo for a while? Pffft...

Invalid signature format
Orion Nex
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2014-08-11 08:15:34 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Orion Nex wrote:

You honestly believe these high sec war dec corps want fights?


Yep. I'm a part of all of that, as well as a suicide ganker.



Quote:

My main is in a low sec PvP alliance


Well, then this next part should be interesting.

Post with your main.


Lol, those aren't fights.

You recognized that you weren't good at PvP at some point and thought it a better idea to camp noobs.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2014-08-11 08:19:39 UTC
Orion Nex wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Orion Nex wrote:

You honestly believe these high sec war dec corps want fights?


Yep. I'm a part of all of that, as well as a suicide ganker.



Quote:

My main is in a low sec PvP alliance


Well, then this next part should be interesting.

Post with your main.


Lol, those aren't fights.

You recognized that you weren't good at PvP at some point and thought it a better idea to camp noobs.



The toon you're posting with doesn't have a PVP record, so your argument is invalid due to you knowing nothing about PVP.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Pheusia
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#33 - 2014-08-11 08:19:48 UTC
Orion Nex wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Orion Nex wrote:

You honestly believe these high sec war dec corps want fights?


Yep. I'm a part of all of that, as well as a suicide ganker.



Quote:

My main is in a low sec PvP alliance


Well, then this next part should be interesting.

Post with your main.


Lol, those aren't fights.

You recognized that you weren't good at PvP at some point and thought it a better idea to camp noobs.



So let's cut the poo-flinging and get to the point.

Do you think wardecs should be removed?

If not, then presumably you want them radically hanged: what should wardecs be?
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#34 - 2014-08-11 08:20:03 UTC
Noobs are those who post about wardecs from safety of NPC alts.

Invalid signature format
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#35 - 2014-08-11 08:20:38 UTC
Orion Nex wrote:

Lol, those aren't fights.

You recognized that you weren't good at PvP at some point and thought it a better idea to camp noobs.



Those are fights, and PvP, by definition.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Orion Nex
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2014-08-11 08:30:38 UTC
Pheusia wrote:
Orion Nex wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Orion Nex wrote:

You honestly believe these high sec war dec corps want fights?


Yep. I'm a part of all of that, as well as a suicide ganker.



Quote:

My main is in a low sec PvP alliance


Well, then this next part should be interesting.

Post with your main.


Lol, those aren't fights.

You recognized that you weren't good at PvP at some point and thought it a better idea to camp noobs.



So let's cut the poo-flinging and get to the point.

Do you think wardecs should be removed?

If not, then presumably you want them radically hanged: what should wardecs be?


I think war decs should be a war like scenario.

Not let's war dec 27 corps and sit at this station and wait for some of their dudes to undock. This shouldn't be called war.

I think it should have to come at a cost to war dec so that there is an actual decision to be made. "We want X and it will potentially cost X to make that happen." This is what happens everywhere but high sec. In high sec it's "lulz, let's make those noobs quit the game".

The funny thing is I know for a fact that this is something these dudes laugh about. They know they are running off players and so does every single person in this thread.
ISD Cyberdyne
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#37 - 2014-08-11 08:35:25 UTC
This thread is riddled with rule violations and is not a constructive conversation in keeping with the intended environment of these forums. As the rules are being constantly violated, this thread is closed.

Quote:
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