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War Dec'ing has become an abusive tool among other things.

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Author
Toridaal Sabezan
AB Fuel and Industry
#1 - 2014-08-09 04:18:09 UTC
War Declaration has become a tool for people to use to be able to legitimately attack anyone they want or they use it to extort players out of isk. I am aware that we are playing a game but even in reality Declaring War on someone is not a matter taking so carelessly as it is done in EvE. The use of War Declarations as the rules currently stand, make it possible for anyone with 50 million isk to declare war on anybody without regards as to why you want to declare war on someone. There needs to be a validation system that makes war declaration a decision that carries with it a much much greater penalty than 50 million isk for any corp under 51 players. Most of the smaller corporations out there are just players trying to play the game in a way that gives them joy and pleasure. For some pleasure derived from this game is playing the game for the sake of the industrial and economic aspects. For others they play this game for the shear destruction of someone else's fun, this is understandable and playing this game carries with it certain risks that make this game what it is. BUT I cannot stress that using the mechanics of this game to harass other people in this game is the heart of this post. There are certain people out there that only play this game because the only way they feel anything is to destroy other people's things and fun. I am not referring to ganking, ganking is a form of piracy and there are consequences for doing so. Excessive ganking of one particular person should be considered harassment especially if done repeatedly several times again and again for no gain on the attackers part. Kill mails are highly over-rated and mean nothing in the grand scheme of things except for determining W/L in large scale war/campaigns. There are a lot of people who have cancelled their accounts because they cannot have any fun no matter what they choose to do in this game because they do not want to fight in PVP ever, also because when they are harassed by another player that player literally follows them around the entire galaxy stalking them at every station you go to. So to say that this galaxy is big enough for everybody is a hollow fallacy that you should not hang on to. If try to If you try to pay them off or surrender they do not listen they just keep coming after you. Or they use th emoney you just paid them to keep war dec'ing you. You could close your entire corp down to avoid being war dec'd, but then a large part of the empire building aspect of this game is reduced to working only with NPC Faction Corps. Small business corps are the backbone of most of the items in which people take for granted. Industrialists do the work that the PVPer's don't want to do, so why attack the people doing the work you do not want to do. So the be-grieved player is either forced to quit the game altogether or buy a new character from the character bazaar which costs a lot of in game money, which you can earn because you are being grieved. You could always pay real money to get the new character that someone else built up, but what difference is that to any other game out there that you pay to win at everything you do, instead of earning it like the game was intended. This game has many aspects many of which do not revolve around combat, Combat is only one part. If all you care about is combat then why play a game that should take quite a while to build a up a good character for fighting. Why not play a game with a little more instant gratification?!? A list of following actions should be taken through out this game to make all aspects of this game to all people in this game that find all aspects of this game enjoyable in one way or another.

1. War Declarations should cost a lot more than 50 million isk. Change (250 mil isk per war dec {weekly} for any corp under 51 members) (500 mil isk per war dec for corps 52+ members up to 500 members) ( One Billion Isk for any corp up to 501-1000+ members) This will deter using war declarations as a means to harass other players for no reason than personal gratification.

2. All character purchases should end. Period. Earning is learning in this game you should not have the ability to buy a character you have no business using without having to have earned it. If you didn't earn it than you should not have it. Even if your a player who has 4 accounts with 40 million SP characters on it, it does not mean that you can skip the character building process of the fifth just because you have the isk, or any character for that matter.

3. All Concord response times in high sec should be decreased by 45 second in 0.5 and accordingly in higher sec systems to deter criminal elements from reentering space where they have burned their bridges (Negative Sec Status Players). Concord should respond to them entering the system just as much as Concord responds to ganker attacks in high sec. I am not suggesting that High Sec should be impregnable to those players but if they choose to commit criminal acts their security status should carry with it a more than a stiff warning from jump gate police. High Sec Guns should fire on any one with a negative sec status below a certain point even high sec station guns. Concord Customs should openly engage any criminal that comes into high sec with a negative sec rating. My rational comes from this ideology: If Miners / Industrialists / PVEer's have to get corporate guards to guard them while mining or freighting goods then criminals should have to get others to get things for them from high sec. If a player chooses to follow a given Empires rules and have a positive sec rating with them then they shall be able to enjoy the benefits of high sec. Just as in any real society the dregs of which are always pushed to the outside from within.

These changes need to happen or CCP will lose more accounts due to people not getting to play the game their way as much as other get to PVP. This game is only 1/8 PVP the 7/8th is not.
Lex Gabinia
Res Repetundae
#2 - 2014-08-09 04:22:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Lex Gabinia
Ouch, my eyes!!!!

Edit: I think you provided ample justification yourself

"...for no reason than personal gratification."

Do we not play games for fun?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#3 - 2014-08-09 04:24:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
No, they have not — they are the same as they ever were, only now they are prohibitively expensive and don't occur nearly as often as they used to.

Also, all your ideas are rubbish and ignorant of the actual game mechanics, and your conclusion has no basis in reality. Oh, and your thread title makes no sense.
Pheusia
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#4 - 2014-08-09 04:34:49 UTC
Toridaal Sabezan wrote:
War Declaration has become a tool for people to use to be able to legitimately attack anyone they want or they use it to extort players out of isk.


What else would they be?
Najenna
Caldari Deep Space Ventures
Brothers of Tangra
#5 - 2014-08-09 04:37:13 UTC
HOLY WALL OF TEXT BATMAN!!!What?
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2014-08-09 04:39:30 UTC
wall of text, didn't read

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~

Grog Aftermath
Doomheim
#7 - 2014-08-09 04:42:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Grog Aftermath
1. War-decs have been used to grief (or at least to appear to grief) corps/alliances in the past. But that's been like that as long as I can remember (not referring to Grog). As to your proposed price strategy, no it's not necessary.

If you don't want to be war-dec'd, then you need to consider an NPC corp.


2. Why should character purchases end, because you can't afford one? So, no to that one too.


3. Is more complex (especially at 05:40 a.m.), I've never really liked high-sec ganking, mainly because up until they actually make their attack they're protected by CONCORD just like everyone else, which of course gives them the advantage.
Arkady Romanov
Whole Squid
#8 - 2014-08-09 04:43:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Arkady Romanov
I didn't read it because its a wall of text.

I'm sure I didn't miss the gist of it, because the overall tone screamed for a war dec nerf (amongst other rubbish). Short answer; no. It's already too easy to avoid combat in hi sec.

Whole Squid: Get Inked.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#9 - 2014-08-09 04:49:02 UTC
Quote:
War Declaration has become a tool for people to use to be able to legitimately attack anyone they want or they use it to extort players out of isk.


That's what it's for. Literally, that's what it's for.

Quote:
1. War Declarations should cost a lot more than 50 million isk.


As soon as it can't be dodged, sure. Til then, you don't get to nerf it.

Quote:
2. All character purchases should end. Period.


Nope. You don't get to tear down a long existing institution in the game just to make yourself feel better. Cry more.

Quote:

3. All Concord response times in high sec should be decreased by 45 second in 0.5 and accordingly in higher sec systems to deter criminal elements


Nope. In fact, the opposite needs to happen, so that new players who want to be pirates actually have a chance to get into the game. There are too few paths available for new characters as it is.

Quote:

These changes need to happen or CCP will lose more accounts due to people not getting to play the game their way as much as other get to PVP. This game is only 1/8 PVP the 7/8th is not.


"Nerf the things I don't like or the game will die!" Nope, not buying it. Your specific niche doesn't get to hold other people's gameplay hostage.

Oh, and the entire game is PvP. All day, every day. If you don't realize that, you're a fool.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Derrick Miles
Death Rabbit Ky Oneida
#10 - 2014-08-09 04:50:44 UTC
I hate to break it to you, but most people in GD are going to call anything that results in more things blowing up in high sec as "emergent gameplay" and are also going to belittle you for the formatting of your post.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#11 - 2014-08-09 04:53:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Toridaal Sabezan wrote:
Initial wall of text I didn't bother reading, because the OP didn't bother formatting it
TL;DR or paragraphs required.

Quote:
1. War Declarations should cost a lot more than 50 million isk. Change (250 mil isk per war dec {weekly} for any corp under 51 members) (500 mil isk per war dec for corps 52+ members up to 500 members) ( One Billion Isk for any corp up to 501-1000+ members) This will deter using war declarations as a means to harass other players for no reason than personal gratification.

2. All character purchases should end. Period. Earning is learning in this game you should not have the ability to buy a character you have no business using without having to have earned it. If you didn't earn it than you should not have it. Even if your a player who has 4 accounts with 40 million SP characters on it, it does not mean that you can skip the character building process of the fifth just because you have the isk, or any character for that matter.
Nope and nope.
1: Wardecs are already more expensive than they used to be, and they already scale depending on the size of the corp being wardecced.

2: Character transfers are fine, if somebody wants to buy a character that's their business. Whether or not they can actually use the character effectively is beside the point, and often produces hilarious results.

Quote:
3: All Concord response times in high sec should be decreased by 45 second in 0.5 ... I am not suggesting that High Sec should be impregnable to those players but if they choose to commit criminal acts their security status should carry with it a more than a stiff warning from jump gate police. High Sec Guns should fire on any one with a negative sec status below a certain point even high sec station guns. Concord Customs should openly engage any criminal that comes into high sec with a negative sec rating ...
Concord response time in a 0.5 is currently 19-26 seconds, a further 45 second reduction would mean that Concord would Concordokken people around 20-30 seconds before they actually do anything that requires them to be Concordokkened. Concord do not have a "pre-crime unit", this is not Minority Report.

You should really get to know the mechanics already in place before spouting off with crap like this.

Despite your protest to the contrary, what you're suggesting is that highsec should be virtually impossible for people with low sec status to enter.

Quote:
These changes need to happen or CCP will lose more accounts due to people not getting to play the game their way as much as other get to PVP. This game is only 1/8 PVP the 7/8th is not.
I don't know what game you're playing but everything in Eve is a form of PvP, even the PvE. The new player FAQ repeatedly points out that that PvP is the core concept of Eve, that should tell you something about the nature of the game.

New Player FAQ wrote:
This is because EVE Online is essentially a PvP (Player versus Player) game at its core. (page 15 section 5.3)

Furthermore, as we mentioned previously, once you enter New Eden you must consider every action you take as a form of PvP since this is the core game concept. (page 21 Introduction)

The essential core concept of EVE Online is that it is full time PvP in a sandbox environment. (page 22 section 7, the very first sentence)

there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. (page 22 section 7.2)


Edit ~ Post with your main so that we can wardec you for shiggles, instead of using a brand new alt to post a tripe filled wall of text

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

S'Way
Country House
Goonswarm Federation
#12 - 2014-08-09 04:54:06 UTC
There's already been a war-dec nerf, this is the happy carebear land of high-sec EvE we ended up with after it.
They should make the fees cheaper again, was always fun undocking to see red everywhere in the days of privateers.
Omar Alharazaad
Praetorian Cannibals
Cannibal Empire
#13 - 2014-08-09 05:22:03 UTC
If you use paragraphs more people will actually read what you're trying to say. Doesn't mean they'll agree with you, because you're wrong, but more will actually read it.

War is a business, a form of industry unto itself in hisec, and your ideas would wreak havoc upon the many corps and alliances that rely on it for their income. There's nothing wrong with war for profit, war for revenge, war to drive out competition, or war because someone had a spare 50 mil they felt like contributing towards someone else's bad week.

Take yer pants off your head and siddown.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

Paranoid Loyd
#14 - 2014-08-09 05:38:23 UTC
TL;DR

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Shederov Blood
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
#15 - 2014-08-09 06:14:08 UTC
First, I went to the kitchen to get myself a snack. Never climb walls of text on an empty stomach I always say.
Then I sat down at my desk, and got stuck into it. I was sadly disappointed before I had even finished the first line at how wrong it was. My favourite part was where he asked for CONCORD response time to be reduced by 45 seconds.

Who put the goat in there?

Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc.
LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
#16 - 2014-08-09 07:07:37 UTC
Wall of text WRECKS for TLDR status and moved on to another thread with something interesting to say.Roll

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.

Graabeerd Khagah
MoonFyre BattleGroup Holdings
#17 - 2014-08-09 07:15:58 UTC
TL;DR, OP, before you even even think about spouting off again, study, study, STUDY how this community operates. Your opening wall of text made ABSOLUTELY no sense in the way you presented and I hate to tell you, but you deserve an "F" for even posting in the first place.
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
#18 - 2014-08-09 07:26:38 UTC
For OP

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Don Purple
Snuggle Society
#19 - 2014-08-09 07:29:20 UTC
Im not going to troll you or tell you that your opinion is wrong. Let me ask, have you been in our shoes? Ganking war dec'ing. Can you argue with knowledge from both sides?

I am just here to snuggle and do spy stuff.

Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
#20 - 2014-08-09 07:29:35 UTC
Toridaal Sabezan wrote:
There are a lot of people who have cancelled their accounts because .... they do not want to fight in PVP ever...


Good. This game was never intended for them anyway.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

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