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Teams Useful?

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Clayton Forester
DEEP-13
#1 - 2014-08-06 13:49:22 UTC
Ok maybe I'm not yet understanding how to use Teams ---

Whenever I test- install one, the job cost goes up 10-20 K and maybe the time will go down by like 20 minutes or so.

A team I plugged in last night raised the install fee like 40 k and reduced the materials used by I think it was 21 K.

What's the point of using them if they actually raise the total job cost?

My related skills are at 5.

Am I doing it all wrong?
Rutger Janssen
Chanuur
The Initiative.
#2 - 2014-08-06 15:05:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Rutger Janssen
It depends on the install cost modifier for the system, team cost and the effectiviness of the ME reduction.

It's possible that ME reduction won't matter much if you don't do many runs and the required amount isn't very high. If something uses 10, 2% won't matter (9.8 is rounded to 10). If it actually uses 9.1, it will differ 10% as it will use 9 instead of 10. If you have this issue, more runs or more bonuses might help.

Remember team cost is based on the job value and system modifier(activity and stations). If you install in a system with high activity and/or crappy stations, it might not be cost effective to use a team. The same team for the same job in an unused system could be worth it.

I wrote out the deduction but I won't bore you with that. To calculate if it's worth it, divide the actual usage reduction by the team cost.

A 1% reduction and 10% team cost will not be cost effective if the system modifier is (1/10=)10%. According to CREST, even jita has lower multiplier than 10%.

So either you run into the ME reduction problem mentioned above, or you didn't look at the numbers correctly.
Team Bidders
Doomheim
#3 - 2014-08-06 15:44:58 UTC
Clayton Forester wrote:
Ok maybe I'm not yet understanding how to use Teams ---

Whenever I test- install one, the job cost goes up 10-20 K and maybe the time will go down by like 20 minutes or so.

A team I plugged in last night raised the install fee like 40 k and reduced the materials used by I think it was 21 K.

What's the point of using them if they actually raise the total job cost?

My related skills are at 5.

Am I doing it all wrong?



You need to give us more information.

What's the ME modifier of the team? it can range from 0.5% to 7+%. Needless to say, the higher the more valuable the team is.
PE midifier is only useful when your bottle is production speed AND you have a high margin.
What's the salary of the team? it can range from 4% to 13%. Of course, higher means worse.
What's the cost index of your system? It can range from 0% to 9+%. Also, if you're using an NPC station, extra 10% is multiplied to team salaries.

A good team is very valuable if you use it correctly in a correct system. People paid 500M or more (the current record is 1B) to win good teams. These people are not stupid.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#4 - 2014-08-06 16:21:53 UTC
Rutger Janssen wrote:
It depends on the install cost modifier for the system, team cost and the effectiviness of the ME reduction.

It's possible that ME reduction won't matter much if you don't do many runs and the required amount isn't very high. If something uses 10, 2% won't matter (9.8 is rounded to 10). If it actually uses 9.1, it will differ 10% as it will use 9 instead of 10. If you have this issue, more runs or more bonuses might help.

Remember team cost is based on the job value and system modifier(activity and stations). If you install in a system with high activity and/or crappy stations, it might not be cost effective to use a team. The same team for the same job in an unused system could be worth it.

I wrote out the deduction but I won't bore you with that. To calculate if it's worth it, divide the actual usage reduction by the team cost.

A 1% reduction and 10% team cost will not be cost effective if the system modifier is (1/10=)10%. According to CREST, even jita has lower multiplier than 10%.

So either you run into the ME reduction problem mentioned above, or you didn't look at the numbers correctly.



9.1 still becomes 10. Materials are rounded up.

However, this happens at the job level, so if you're making 10 runs, you'd only need 91.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#5 - 2014-08-06 16:39:39 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
9.1 still becomes 10. Materials are rounded up.

However, this happens at the job level, so if you're making 10 runs, you'd only need 91.

From my research, and a little T&E, teams are only worth it if:

A) You're installing a job that requires a large volume of materials.
B) You're installing a large volume of jobs.
C) The material/time savings justify the cost of the team.

If all you're doing is jobs with low volumes of materials, teams aren't really worth it.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Rutger Janssen
Chanuur
The Initiative.
#6 - 2014-08-06 16:55:57 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Rutger Janssen wrote:
It depends on the install cost modifier for the system, team cost and the effectiviness of the ME reduction.

It's possible that ME reduction won't matter much if you don't do many runs and the required amount isn't very high. If something uses 10, 2% won't matter (9.8 is rounded to 10). If it actually uses 9.1, it will differ 10% as it will use 9 instead of 10. If you have this issue, more runs or more bonuses might help.

Remember team cost is based on the job value and system modifier(activity and stations). If you install in a system with high activity and/or crappy stations, it might not be cost effective to use a team. The same team for the same job in an unused system could be worth it.

I wrote out the deduction but I won't bore you with that. To calculate if it's worth it, divide the actual usage reduction by the team cost.

A 1% reduction and 10% team cost will not be cost effective if the system modifier is (1/10=)10%. According to CREST, even jita has lower multiplier than 10%.

So either you run into the ME reduction problem mentioned above, or you didn't look at the numbers correctly.



9.1 still becomes 10. Materials are rounded up.

However, this happens at the job level, so if you're making 10 runs, you'd only need 91.


I should have clarified that. If due to other bonuses it is using 9.1, and thus rounded up to 10, a 2% reduction will lower that to 8.89 and thus 9.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#7 - 2014-08-06 17:53:24 UTC
Rutger Janssen wrote:
I should have clarified that. If due to other bonuses it is using 9.1, and thus rounded up to 10, a 2% reduction will lower that to 8.89 and thus 9.



Ahh, cool Smile

Just wanted to make sure everyone was on the same page.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Ginger Barbarella
#8 - 2014-08-06 19:00:31 UTC
Just posted this on my recent experiences...

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Clayton Forester
DEEP-13
#9 - 2014-08-06 19:08:17 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
9.1 still becomes 10. Materials are rounded up.

However, this happens at the job level, so if you're making 10 runs, you'd only need 91.

From my research, and a little T&E, teams are only worth it if:

A) You're installing a job that requires a large volume of materials.
B) You're installing a large volume of jobs.
C) The material/time savings justify the cost of the team.

If all you're doing is jobs with low volumes of materials, teams aren't really worth it.



ahh that helps! I'll think of it this way: If the jobs are small enough, my "personal employees" (ie the imaginary dudes inhabiting all our ships and stations Blink ) can handle them -- employing a crack team to come in would be just overkill.
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#10 - 2014-08-07 20:21:14 UTC
Rutger Janssen wrote:
Remember team cost is based on the job value and system modifier(activity and stations). If you install in a system with high activity and/or crappy stations, it might not be cost effective to use a team. The same team for the same job in an unused system could be worth it.


What's a crappy station? Is there something I don't know?
Rutger Janssen
Chanuur
The Initiative.
#11 - 2014-08-07 22:51:59 UTC
Some stations provide a lower multiplier than others: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/eve-industry-all-you-want-to-know/

And it combines the multipliers of all stations in system. A system with 1 factory is better than one with 2 research station, but one with 3 is better for example.

Or just pull the system multipliers from CREST to track the multiplier including activity and don't care about it :)
George Gouillot
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2014-08-07 23:02:11 UTC  |  Edited by: George Gouillot
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
9.1 still becomes 10. Materials are rounded up.

However, this happens at the job level, so if you're making 10 runs, you'd only need 91.

From my research, and a little T&E, teams are only worth it if:

A) You're installing a job that requires a large volume of materials.
B) You're installing a large volume of jobs.
C) The material/time savings justify the cost of the team.

If all you're doing is jobs with low volumes of materials, teams aren't really worth it.


Only C) matters - if you are building light T2 combat drones for example, even a 5% team for 1 ISK would be a loss independent of the volume (unless you build the required T1 drone by yourself). With teams nothing saves you from doing your calculations and planning the next 28 days of your production,