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Multi Boxing for Unfair game play is bannable. Close Thread please

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Toshiro Hasegawa
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#21 - 2014-08-07 16:30:32 UTC
O2 jayjay wrote:
You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.

Copy and paste from EULA



might be getting into legalees .. but that doesnt say no multiboxing.

"patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items,... ... at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play"
and
"You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data" is not occuring when multiboxing.

Multiboxing is like running multiple accounts, which is legal. It just makes it easier to press, for example all the undock buttons at once. Now one could argue that speeds up ordinary game play .. but i do not think that was the intention of the part of text you copied, but rather a section on not fiddling with game code, or macros to dupe the game mechanics. Not even if that section is describing boting ... really seems more about hacking, duping or breaking existing code. The keys being "accelerated rate" and "not actually acquired or achieved in the Game".

History is the study of change.

Paranoid Loyd
#22 - 2014-08-07 16:31:02 UTC
O2 jayjay wrote:
LOL sorry bro but the rules are clear. NO third party or homemade software. So if you are multi boxing using a third party software or are botting that is breaking the rules. Black and white with no room for argument.


The evidence seems to dictate otherwise.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#23 - 2014-08-07 16:32:29 UTC
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
Get isboxer, get fleet of miners, mine all you like and only visit your computer every 15min or so to do stuff. Its sickening, but its the rules. Thankfully there is also the New Order of Hisec, and their own set of rules to bring balance to hisec mining.


Because bots are only mining and only in hisec Roll

Invalid signature format
Notorious Fellon
#24 - 2014-08-07 16:33:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Notorious Fellon
O2 jayjay wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
O2 jayjay wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
O2 jayjay wrote:
I guess i am the only one the Reads the EULA top to bottom


Nope you are the one taking it a face value.


Exactly! so you are agree that there is no consistency. If the rules cannot be taken to face value and CCP will decide that one player can do this and its fine while a different player did the same exact thing and gets ban that is called favoritism.


Nope, that is called understanding it is not a black and white situation and making a case by case decision based on the evidence.


LOL sorry bro but the rules are clear. NO third party or homemade software. So if you are multi boxing using a third party software or are botting that is breaking the rules. Black and white with no room for argument.


CCP has reserved the right to interpret the rules they wrote.

Your interpretation is not only irrelevant, it is pointless to discuss.

CCP could actually declare that rule #1 in the Eula means "You may not ride an albino alpaca while mining".

Crime, it is not a "career", it is a lifestyle.
Barzai Mekhar
True Confusion
#25 - 2014-08-07 16:33:03 UTC
O2 jayjay wrote:
You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.

Copy and paste from EULA


Copied, pasted, not understood, as usual.

It has been clarified that the "accelerated rate" phrase refers to a "per account" and not a "per player" comparison. When multi boxing each individual account will usually operate at slightly reduced efficiency.
O2 jayjay
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2014-08-07 16:34:05 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
O2 jayjay wrote:
You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.

Copy and paste from EULA





I decided to have this discussion earlier with Tippia, because I enjoy digging into semantics for no good reason whatsoever (and I suspect Tippia does too!). Anyway, this is her take on it, and maybe it should be stickied.


Quote:
When you accept the EULA (which you do when you establish an account or at the latest when you log in for the first time), you get a licensed copy -- merely by accepting, the bit at the very start of the License section now applies to you "Subject to the terms of the EULA, CCP grants you a limited, non-exclusive, revocable license to use the Software". Congratulations, clicking the button means you have “bought a license” for all the intents of the EULA… now you just have to cough up the cash for an account as well, which is a (very vaguely) separate requirement to play.

The rest about copies is just a left-over from when you got the game on DVDs and created accounts by entering the license number. For each DVD you bought, you could install the game twice and back up once. The other guy in the thread was right about one thing: CCP does not fully enforce their EULA, but he was wrong about which part wasn't enforced. Like you say, no-one cares about installed copies for an MMO since the code on the computer is useless without an account, so CCP does not give one whit about how many installs you have on how many computers from how many downloads. Since they don't care about installs, they also don't care about any shortcuts you take to save space — you are supposed to launch each client from its own separate install, but why bother?

The restriction he claims — one account only per computer — is a misreading of that install limit. It says “you may install a copy of the Software on, and access the System from, a single computer […]. You must purchase a separate license to the Software for each additional Account you register […]. You may not use more than one Account with a single licensed copy of the Software.” He's essentially reading it backwards: the EULA dictates computers per copy, not copies per computer.

It does not say “you may only install a single copy on, and access the system from, a single computer [for each account]”. Since they've given me the right to download and install, they would have to explicitly exclude the right to do it multiple times under certain circumstances, and they simply don't. The closest thing is the bit at the end, where each install is only really meant to be used with one account, but again, that just means you can use multiple installs (and you will have all the licenses required because otherwise you won't have enough accounts to use them all) on the same computer.



you completely went away from my point. i dont care if you have 1000 toons. The point is you cannot have 1000 toons logged in at the same time and assist in ganking a player ect. That is against the rules.
O2 jayjay
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2014-08-07 16:36:19 UTC
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
While I sympathize and happen to think that tools like isboxer should be banned, CCP does not feel the same way and draw a clear distinction between multiboxing and botting. Your friend was botting, which is a no-no. Get isboxer, get fleet of miners, mine all you like and only visit your computer every 15min or so to do stuff. Its sickening, but its the rules. Thankfully there is also the New Order of Hisec, and their own set of rules to bring balance to hisec mining.


You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.

written clear as day. this was copied and past from eve website http://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/eve-eula/
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2014-08-07 16:36:45 UTC
O2 jayjay wrote:
you completely went away from my point. i dont care if you have 1000 toons. The point is you cannot have 1000 toons logged in at the same time and assist in ganking a player ect. That is against the rules.

Oh I see, you didn't read the quote.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#29 - 2014-08-07 16:36:55 UTC
O2 jayjay wrote:
The point is you cannot have 1000 toons logged in at the same time and assist in ganking a player ect.


Why not?

O2 jayjay wrote:
That is against the rules.


Maybe yours but definitely not CCP's. Not currently at least.

Invalid signature format
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#30 - 2014-08-07 16:37:28 UTC
O2 jayjay wrote:
You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.

Copy and paste from EULA

This statement is based entirely on the definition of "ordinary Game play", which is inherently arbitrary. If CCP considers players running multiple clients at once "ordinary Game play", then multi-boxing, in and of itself, is not a bannable offense.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Notorious Fellon
#31 - 2014-08-07 16:38:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Notorious Fellon
O2 jayjay wrote:
...

you completely went away from my point. i dont care if you have 1000 toons. The point is you cannot have 1000 toons logged in at the same time and assist in ganking a player ect. That is against the rules.


No, it is not against the rules. You are more wrong than a pedophile in a barney costume.

Crime, it is not a "career", it is a lifestyle.
O2 jayjay
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2014-08-07 16:40:10 UTC  |  Edited by: O2 jayjay
Toshiro Hasegawa wrote:
O2 jayjay wrote:
You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.

Copy and paste from EULA



might be getting into legalees .. but that doesnt say no multiboxing.

"patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items,... ... at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play"
and
"You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data" is not occuring when multiboxing.

Multiboxing is like running multiple accounts, which is legal. It just makes it easier to press, for example all the undock buttons at once. Now one could argue that speeds up ordinary game play .. but i do not think that was the intention of the part of text you copied, but rather a section on not fiddling with game code, or macros to dupe the game mechanics. Not even if that section is describing boting ... really seems more about hacking, duping or breaking existing code. The keys being "accelerated rate" and "not actually acquired or achieved in the Game".



Geez really! let me put this together for you.

You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.


Edit: BTW the other player was nice enough to post that only one account is suppose to be played per computer at the same time. Hint why you cannot log into two players under the same account. Anyway i have all my supporting documents and they are all posted.
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2014-08-07 16:41:15 UTC
O2 jayjay wrote:
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
While I sympathize and happen to think that tools like isboxer should be banned, CCP does not feel the same way and draw a clear distinction between multiboxing and botting. Your friend was botting, which is a no-no. Get isboxer, get fleet of miners, mine all you like and only visit your computer every 15min or so to do stuff. Its sickening, but its the rules. Thankfully there is also the New Order of Hisec, and their own set of rules to bring balance to hisec mining.


You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.

written clear as day. this was copied and past from eve website http://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/eve-eula/


Since isboxer on its own isn't using macros or stored rapid keystrokes, CCP has said it is a-ok. Isboxer does send your input to multiple windows at a time, but since it is you doing it, they don't have a problem with it. Since it is their rules governing your behavior, they are free to make exceptions whenever they like.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Notorious Fellon
#34 - 2014-08-07 16:42:14 UTC
It's like having a conversation with a flashing neon sign. It just says the same thing over and over and over without listening to the hobo trying to tell it that it is flashing the wrong words.

Crime, it is not a "career", it is a lifestyle.
O2 jayjay
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2014-08-07 16:43:46 UTC  |  Edited by: O2 jayjay
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
O2 jayjay wrote:
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
While I sympathize and happen to think that tools like isboxer should be banned, CCP does not feel the same way and draw a clear distinction between multiboxing and botting. Your friend was botting, which is a no-no. Get isboxer, get fleet of miners, mine all you like and only visit your computer every 15min or so to do stuff. Its sickening, but its the rules. Thankfully there is also the New Order of Hisec, and their own set of rules to bring balance to hisec mining.


You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.

written clear as day. this was copied and past from eve website http://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/eve-eula/


Since isboxer on its own isn't using macros or stored rapid keystrokes, CCP has said it is a-ok. Isboxer does send your input to multiple windows at a time, but since it is you doing it, they don't have a problem with it. Since it is their rules governing your behavior, they are free to make exceptions whenever they like.


LOL i sure CCP said it was okay......Wait no they didnt since its still in their rules. but maybe they forgot to change it. what source do you have? or am i suppose to just take you word which is wroth as much as an isk multiplier in jita
Notorious Fellon
#36 - 2014-08-07 16:44:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Notorious Fellon
For the sake of full disclosure, I think allowing isboxer is terrible and ruins the integrity of the game and CCP, but that does not change the fact that the interpretation of the Eula by CCP (the only one that matters) allows for it, and thus isboxer multi-boxing clowns are operating legit all over the place.

Crime, it is not a "career", it is a lifestyle.
Barzai Mekhar
True Confusion
#37 - 2014-08-07 16:45:16 UTC
Notorious Fellon wrote:
It's like having a conversation with a flashing neon sign. It just says the same thing over and over and over without listening to the hobo trying to tell it that it is flashing the wrong words.


Relevant
O2 jayjay
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2014-08-07 16:47:04 UTC
Notorious Fellon wrote:
For the sake of full disclosure, I think allowing isboxer is terrible and ruins the integrity of the game and CCP, but that does not change the fact that the interpretation of the Eula by CCP (the only one that matters) allows for it, and thus isboxer multi-boxing clowns are operating legally all over the place.




Have you not read anything? They don't allow it but they look the other way since so many players are doing it. Its still rule breaking. As stated in the OP rule breaking is rule breaking. Either re write the rules, Un-ban my friend, or ban all that are breaking the rules.
Notorious Fellon
#39 - 2014-08-07 16:49:47 UTC
O2 jayjay wrote:
Notorious Fellon wrote:
For the sake of full disclosure, I think allowing isboxer is terrible and ruins the integrity of the game and CCP, but that does not change the fact that the interpretation of the Eula by CCP (the only one that matters) allows for it, and thus isboxer multi-boxing clowns are operating legally all over the place.




Have you not read anything? They don't allow it but they look the other way since so many players are doing it. Its still rule breaking. As stated in the OP rule breaking is rule breaking. Either re write the rules, Un-ban my friend, or ban all that are breaking the rules.



You have failed so hard it has clouded your vision. Go read the thread, not just your own posts.

Crime, it is not a "career", it is a lifestyle.
O2 jayjay
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2014-08-07 16:49:50 UTC
Notorious Fellon wrote:
O2 jayjay wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
O2 jayjay wrote:
I guess i am the only one the Reads the EULA top to bottom


Nope you are the one taking it a face value.


Exactly! so you are agree that there is no consistency. If the rules cannot be taken to face value and CCP will decide that one player can do this and its fine while a different player did the same exact thing and gets ban that is called favoritism.



Consistency is not the top priority in a for-profit company otherwise it would be labeled "for-consistency".

CCP has made it quite clear that not only is multi-boxing fine, users can even use key-sharing apps that fork commands into multiple windows of the game.

Consistency and logic are not considered important on this topic.



So banning player is good for profit? That makes alot of sense.