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Bonus Room, Rd 2

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Lady Areola Fappington
#41 - 2014-08-04 06:48:16 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:

Did a 6 mile run today, in the heat, and then some time to think in the shade, with a jug of water.

I decided this morning that I can no longer tell other people who are into online games that I play Eve. Thing is, every time I did, I got my balls busted for it.

It's also starting to appear obvious at this point that no matter what they do to improve the game (and what CCP is doing is actually very good, IMO they are innovative and responsive to the community and I have not seen better anywhere else) the reputation of the game precedes it. I find myself hemming and hawing on that, saying "well, they are improving it, um... ". I'm also starting to want to see the actual statistic of "individuals" versus number of accounts to get the real number of actual subscribers instead of how many individual accounts there are. Just wondering.


Then this.


We need to have limits. Or we won't have a game. Or maybe we will have a game, but nobody will play it, and then we have good people working hard on improving the game, and anybody coming in to try it will leave in an hour with that "I don't feel like paying to babysit" feeling.




We will have this problem as long as there are people willing to abuse other people's misfortunes as a way to "attack" the "other guys".

In my book, the "Hey guys look what those dude's said about (person's misfortune)" are just as disgusting as the people who actually use a person's misfortune as a weapon, and the people who fake a misfortune like family death as a ploy to "trap" people.

It's all screwed up emotional manipulation no matter the context.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Prince Kobol
#42 - 2014-08-04 07:01:23 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:


We will have this problem as long as there are people willing to abuse other people's misfortunes as a way to "attack" the "other guys".

In my book, the "Hey guys look what those dude's said about (person's misfortune)" are just as disgusting as the people who actually use a person's misfortune as a weapon, and the people who fake a misfortune like family death as a ploy to "trap" people.

It's all screwed up emotional manipulation no matter the context.


Completely agree, however the only to put a stop to this is for CCP to come down very hard on people who do use the misfortunes of others to attack people.

If CCP do this and importantly are consistent, then less people will do this as they know they will be punished.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#43 - 2014-08-04 07:02:21 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Derrick Miles wrote:

Normally I have no problem with CODE. and it's roleplaying as gankers of the "New Order". However, they have recently begun what I consider a campaign that borders on new player harassment. That is not something I find acceptable in any way and the attitudes shown by their recent victims may have something to do with the fact that they have only been playing for less than a week and aren't even aware of what's expected of them.


The incredible amount of verbal abuse and real life threats being slung at gankers did not start, nor will it end, with the venture killing contest. (which, by the way, is pretty fun)

*leafs through hatemail*

Ah, here we are. I have one from nearly a year ago, in which the individual says that he wishes that I, and I quote: "get ass cancer and die in a gutter somewhere where the homeless will **** (my) corpse". There were a bunch of exclamation points and it was cleaned up some, but that's a pretty close paraphrase. His character was three years old at the time of the evemail.

This is not about new players. It's about entitlement, and the ugly mindset that accompanies it.




Um... as a moderator for 14 years for some websites with rather huge egos, I have to remind you that someone saying they hope you die of cancer (though not nice) and someone saying they will or are planning to kill/harm/give you such a pinch are two entirely different things.

Yes I know it might be a crowning achievement to make someone so mad they make a threat and get them banned, but ninnying about something that is not directly a threat is just as bad as being the one making the threat. It's bad enough we have entire countries run by and for "oooooh I feel threatened" resulting in cops killing people and walking away all the way up to countries going to war on false pretense.

So please don't be a part of that. Know what a threat is, and know what simple hate mail is. As one who has had to provide logs because someone made a threat, and look over the evidence, I think I'm most qualified to know the difference.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#44 - 2014-08-04 07:11:10 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
The problem with banning code members is the vast majority of them are throwaway alts.

Really? Where's your evidence for that?


Evi-what now?

To the OP and others of his ilk, if you have an issue with a member of the New Order contact one of our diplos (Capt Starfox and DJentropy Ovaert). If you see an actual EULA / ToS violation file a support ticket, but please don't waste GM time with stuff that is allowed but that you wish wasn't.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Lady Areola Fappington
#45 - 2014-08-04 07:19:34 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:


We will have this problem as long as there are people willing to abuse other people's misfortunes as a way to "attack" the "other guys".

In my book, the "Hey guys look what those dude's said about (person's misfortune)" are just as disgusting as the people who actually use a person's misfortune as a weapon, and the people who fake a misfortune like family death as a ploy to "trap" people.

It's all screwed up emotional manipulation no matter the context.


Completely agree, however the only to put a stop to this is for CCP to come down very hard on people who do use the misfortunes of others to attack people.

If CCP do this and importantly are consistent, then less people will do this as they know they will be punished.



I fully agree, with the caveat that all three "types" should get nailed with the banhammer for this sort of stupidity.

Fake a tragedy to farm sympathy/trap others=ban
Use someone else's tragedy as a means to attack=ban
Publicize someone using the above with the intent to "draw attention to how awful deeze peeps are"=ban

I man, just for the case in point. we all know these "OMGOMGOMG Look at what the turribl CODE person said!" posts have jack-all to do with seeking justice and righting a wrong. It's all crap-slinging just to make gankers look like bad people. It doesn't help much that some....creative editing of logs were required to get the intended effect, too.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#46 - 2014-08-04 07:26:39 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:

Um... as a moderator for 14 years for some websites with rather huge egos, I have to remind you that someone saying they hope you die of cancer (though not nice) and someone saying they will or are planning to kill/harm/give you such a pinch are two entirely different things.


They're both EULA violations. Violations that, so long as you level them at the "bad guys" in EVE, remain largely unpunished. They're described in great detail on Minerbumping pretty much every week. We know for a fact that CCP can and has drawn on out of game sources for material with which to ban someone(they've done this a bunch of times), so why are any of these people allowed to play the game anymore?


Quote:

So please don't be a part of that. Know what a threat is, and know what simple hate mail is. As one who has had to provide logs because someone made a threat, and look over the evidence, I think I'm most qualified to know the difference.


And as someone who has been doxxed rather severely, I think I am qualified to know the difference myself. It's why I post on an alt after all. (as an aside, they weren't punished)

The salient point is that I simply don't care. I got fed up with this "sperg out death threats about a video game" childishness long ago. If people are so emotionally unstable as to say stuff like that because of pixels, they are on the **** list.

I don't care what the trailer says. EVE is not real. People need to stop acting like getting their pixels taken away is equivalent to real life harm. That cheapens real victims of real crimes, and the kind of people who keep on making comparisons like that need to be chased away from EVE en masse.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#47 - 2014-08-04 07:27:30 UTC
If all of this drama happened outside of EVE than what has it to do with CCP?

They police the game not the internet.
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
When Fleets Collide
#48 - 2014-08-04 07:28:41 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Fake a tragedy to farm sympathy/trap others=ban


Why?
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#49 - 2014-08-04 07:32:04 UTC
just ban all CODE, and the OP.

no tears will be shed.
Lady Areola Fappington
#50 - 2014-08-04 07:46:43 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Fake a tragedy to farm sympathy/trap others=ban


Why?



I'd think it's pretty obvious, but here goes...

Pulling crap like "Mwaahaa, I'll tell everyone I have cancer, and when those awful (group X) people make fun of it, I'll get them banned/harassed/looked down on!" is quite frankly, disgusting. It's a pretty huge breach of the RL/game divide, only done to manipulate others, and ends up generating even more drama and ill-will than needed.

It never fails, one of two things happens. The person faking tragedy gets found out (moar drama), or the person faking tragedy doesn't get the kind of attention they were seeking, which prompts even more outlandish behaviour. It's best to nip all that in the bud, before it has a chance to fester.

I got no problem with "Hey guys, going through a rough patch" style posts. It happens, we're a community, and we should band together to help each other out in those times. Abusing that sense of community for "points" one way or the other is pretty damn low.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2014-08-04 07:48:36 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
We know for a fact that CCP can and has drawn on out of game sources for material with which to ban someone(they've done this a bunch of times), so why are any of these people allowed to play the game anymore?

Because they don't get reported?
CCP will punish EULA violations, but they can only do that if they're aware of it in the first place.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#52 - 2014-08-04 07:55:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
We know for a fact that CCP can and has drawn on out of game sources for material with which to ban someone(they've done this a bunch of times), so why are any of these people allowed to play the game anymore?

Because they don't get reported?
CCP will punish EULA violations, but they can only do that if they're aware of it in the first place.


I personally know several people besides myself who reported Fallen Seal after I found out about it. There is zero chance CCP was not aware of it.

He still plays the game.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
When Fleets Collide
#53 - 2014-08-04 08:01:49 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Fake a tragedy to farm sympathy/trap others=ban


Why?
Pulling crap like "Mwaahaa, I'll tell everyone I have cancer, and when those awful (group X) people make fun of it, I'll get them banned/harassed/looked down on!" is quite frankly, disgusting. It's a pretty huge breach of the RL/game divide, only done to manipulate others, and ends up generating even more drama and ill-will than needed.


Oh, I agree on that part.

I thought you meant that I should get banned if I told people my husband died and I'm 7 months pregnant so I need isk to plex my account.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#54 - 2014-08-04 08:11:09 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Fake a tragedy to farm sympathy/trap others=ban


Why?
Pulling crap like "Mwaahaa, I'll tell everyone I have cancer, and when those awful (group X) people make fun of it, I'll get them banned/harassed/looked down on!" is quite frankly, disgusting. It's a pretty huge breach of the RL/game divide, only done to manipulate others, and ends up generating even more drama and ill-will than needed.


Oh, I agree on that part.

I thought you meant that I should get banned if I told people my husband died and I'm 7 months pregnant so I need isk to plex my account.


Heh heh, there was a reddit thread a while back where someone was willing to pay isk for somebody to do his math homework for him.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
When Fleets Collide
#55 - 2014-08-04 08:43:58 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Fake a tragedy to farm sympathy/trap others=ban


Why?
Pulling crap like "Mwaahaa, I'll tell everyone I have cancer, and when those awful (group X) people make fun of it, I'll get them banned/harassed/looked down on!" is quite frankly, disgusting. It's a pretty huge breach of the RL/game divide, only done to manipulate others, and ends up generating even more drama and ill-will than needed.


Oh, I agree on that part.

I thought you meant that I should get banned if I told people my husband died and I'm 7 months pregnant so I need isk to plex my account.


Heh heh, there was a reddit thread a while back where someone was willing to pay isk for somebody to do his math homework for him.


Isn't that RMT tho?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#56 - 2014-08-04 08:50:45 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:

Isn't that RMT tho?


There is no war in Ba Sing Se.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2014-08-04 09:20:32 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Isn't that RMT tho?

No.

Not to say that it's allowed, but it kind of fails the definition of RMT.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#58 - 2014-08-04 09:30:19 UTC
QUICK!!

Someone!!

What year is it?!

WHO IS THE PRESIDENT?!?!?!


"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Josef Djugashvilis
#59 - 2014-08-04 09:31:35 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Derrick Miles wrote:

Normally I have no problem with CODE. and it's roleplaying as gankers of the "New Order". However, they have recently begun what I consider a campaign that borders on new player harassment. That is not something I find acceptable in any way and the attitudes shown by their recent victims may have something to do with the fact that they have only been playing for less than a week and aren't even aware of what's expected of them.


The incredible amount of verbal abuse and real life threats being slung at gankers did not start, nor will it end, with the venture killing contest. (which, by the way, is pretty fun)

*leafs through hatemail*

Ah, here we are. I have one from nearly a year ago, in which the individual says that he wishes that I, and I quote: "get ass cancer and die in a gutter somewhere where the homeless will **** (my) corpse". There were a bunch of exclamation points and it was cleaned up some, but that's a pretty close paraphrase. His character was three years old at the time of the evemail.

This is not about new players. It's about entitlement, and the ugly mindset that accompanies it.


On the bright side, once you are dead you will not care what the homeless do to you Smile

This is not a signature.
Handar Turiant
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2014-08-04 09:56:00 UTC
Somehow I get the feeling this whole discussion is qualified as 'winning at the Meta'. It's all very messy and.... well.... childish.