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Dread Pirate Scarlet. Rattlesnake Report.
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Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#41 - 2014-08-02 18:32:08 UTC
I think you miss the point that their is nothing that can out perform it on full clear.

Diminishing returns is expected when in the last few percent of perfecting.

Also I said it could have been done a little faster in same fit I got a bit sloppy on the run.

I think it's performing as intended.

For full clear the noctis is needed just to have the cargo size and enough MTU's to drop and run.

I carry 5 MTU's on my RS and try to grab 2 missions at a time before redock to save warp time.
No space is cargo for the amount of loot I grab up per run.
Mauraders are cherry pickers. I want it all!

I'll take the Maurader v.s. MTU / Noctis challege any day on that. I don't see the Mauraders doing it any faster.
Sara Tosa
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#42 - 2014-08-02 23:29:16 UTC
Jeanne-Luise Argenau wrote:
i find it cute how he describes the scarlet mission as the toughest. Ok it needs omni tank and omni damage, but the toughest standard mission is still serp and guri blockade l4 and from the epic arcs it is showtime (hope i remember it correct).

blocadese/gu is more annoying than tough wiht a mjd/sniper fit.
guristas bs will still hit you at 130km but damage is not so hard to tank even with just a couple of resists as long as you stay out of bc/cruiser/frigate range, serp are blaster fitted so not a problem.
even switching to an ab via yurth the far gates remains annoying.
Sara Tosa
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#43 - 2014-08-02 23:31:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Sara Tosa
Ireland VonVicious wrote:
I think you miss the point that their is nothing that can out perform it on full clear.

if you know how to manage your mjd a kronos/paladin can be as good or better, depending on mission, probably you're still thinking about old marauders pre bastion/mjd with tractor bonuses.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2014-08-03 00:35:21 UTC
You use a Rattlesnake to blitz.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#45 - 2014-08-03 03:38:50 UTC
Sara Tosa wrote:
Ireland VonVicious wrote:
I think you miss the point that their is nothing that can out perform it on full clear.

if you know how to manage your mjd a kronos/paladin can be as good or better, depending on mission, probably you're still thinking about old marauders pre bastion/mjd with tractor bonuses.


I'm not and would rather use RS MJD fit over a current Marauder.

I don't see a Marauder pulling this off at this speed as just discussed with the Vargur.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#46 - 2014-08-03 03:40:59 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
You use a Rattlesnake to blitz.



Not I. I burn through missions too fast and have long sessions when I run them.
The declines by running too fast will hurt more than spending time to complete.
It's only isk per hour if you can keep it up for a full hour and I'm after 2-3 hour sessions.
When playing in such a manner blitz turns to fail rather quickly.
stoicfaux
#47 - 2014-08-03 15:40:18 UTC  |  Edited by: stoicfaux
Ireland VonVicious wrote:

Loot total was 33,540,000

No awsome drops happend during this run that would have spiked the loot numbers.

33.5M in loot is a huge amount. By comparison, my Vargur numbers show 10.1M and 6.4M in loot (as per the in-game estimator.) Which means you probably got a really good implant drop and/or a lot of meta 4 items. The loot fairy either favored you heavily or disfavored me heavily. (Or the Vargur really needs to hang around and loot everything.)


Quote:

Reward total was 3,700,000
Grand total was 66,290,876

Time taken to complete mission 25 mins.
Total time loot/salvage in Noctis was 10 mins.
Putting in 5 mins of flight time and using that lag to go toward flight time too as needed you get roughly 40 mins.

Mission pays out over 4000 LP if you have social skills trained and you can convert that as you see fit.

I was a bit laggy on the playing and believe 1-2 mins could be shaved off the mission time in the same ship.

Long story short, it took the Rattlesnake (23m to 25m) + 5 min travel time + 10 min Noctis run = 38 to 40 minutes to do a full clear. My two Vargur runs in-mission times averaged 28 minutes. We add in 5m of travel time giving us 33m, which is 5 to 7 minutes faster than the RS+Noctis. I'm pretty sure that the Vargur could have cleared the field of loot and salvage in 5-7 minutes. Add in the Vargur's faster warp speed of 2.9 AU/s (2.2 base, warp speed rig, 10% warp speed implant,) and we could add another minute or two for the Vargur to loot.

Ergo, your Rattlesnake + Noctis combo wasn't faster than a Vargur.


Now as for the Rattlesnake's impressive DPS:
If we look at just the time spent in mission, your run was 23 to 25 minutes. The average in-mission time of my two Vargur runs was 28M. So that means your 1,733 1,694* DPS Rattlesnake has 51% more raw DPS than my 1,123 DPS Vargur. However, you're only clearing the mission
* 12% faster using your 25 minute number
* 16% faster using 24 minutes
* 21% faster using 23 minutes

Again, the Rattlesnake's impressive EFT DPS numbers don't translate well into actual applied DPS.



* Your 1,733 DPS number didn't include reload times. Your correct DPS number is 1,694.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#48 - 2014-08-03 17:16:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Ireland VonVicious
Well that is it's max number.
It's using sentries most of the time so yes when using Gardes the DPS does drop a bit.
Also you reload between each room. Only exception is last room but I hit reload as I ran up an extra 30k on the first bonus spawn.

I don't think your Vagur could clear it in the time stated had it full looted/salvaged. I'd bet on not even close. It really doesn't even have the option due to lack of cargo space. It's like a partial blitz that you ran hard to compare it to a kill and loot/salvage every last thing run.

Had one 8 mil implant but nothing else was loot fairy.

I think it's just that I went through all those BS bonus spawns at the end.

That 20 mil light in the loot/salvage you came up with for that 7 mins time it would hopefully take is rather telling.
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#49 - 2014-08-03 17:33:44 UTC
Ireland VonVicious wrote:


I don't think your Vagur could clear it in the time stated had it full looted/salvaged. I'd bet on not even close. It really doesn't even have the option due to lack of cargo space. It's like a partial blitz that you ran hard to compare it to a kill and loot/salvage every last thing run.


All marauders have gigantic cargo holds so uh....
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#50 - 2014-08-03 17:37:34 UTC
For a BS they sure do. But it's only still about half what is needed when that mission is spewing and you full loot it. Expect a warp out and back in.
Rexxorr
Perkone
Caldari State
#51 - 2014-08-03 18:49:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Rexxorr
The Maurauders have quality of life issues going for them, tank, e-war immunity , salvage/loot while makeing more wrecks, good damage application, generous fitting parameters. They are the mission ships that have it all.

The Rattlesnake has a lot of EFT dps which it has issues applying, very tight fitting which causes trade offs in the mid slots for tank or damage aplication. Now the Rattlesnake is a good mission ship but the Maurauders are the apex lvl4 mission runner .
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#52 - 2014-08-03 20:03:49 UTC
They don't have better tanks. RS is pretty EWAR resistant. Fof's and agressive drones.
Over time I don't think they make or loot more wrecks.

http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/70554-MWD-L4-Rattlesnake-1733-DPS-with-implants.html

http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/70136-Rattlesnake-Kronos-Optimal-L4-Missioner.html#msg1022660

http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/70551-MTU-Noctis.html

Those might help explain.

Mach and Mars are the only ships in the same sport.

Mach for blitz.
Mars for cherry picking.
RS / Noctis for full clears.

If one of you draws the dread scarlet give it a go.
See how long it takes to clear all bonus waves and loot/salvage entire mission.
stoicfaux
#53 - 2014-08-03 20:26:13 UTC
Ireland VonVicious wrote:

Had one 8 mil implant but nothing else was loot fairy.

That 20 mil light in the loot/salvage you came up with for that 7 mins time it would hopefully take is rather telling.

It's most likely the loot fairy. My spreadsheet has three AE runs, two of the runs (which included bonus room) resulted in 6.7M and 9.2M in loot. The 3rd run (sans bonus room) was 31.0M in loot.

tl;dr - More data points are needed.



Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#54 - 2014-08-03 20:51:05 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Ireland VonVicious wrote:

Had one 8 mil implant but nothing else was loot fairy.

That 20 mil light in the loot/salvage you came up with for that 7 mins time it would hopefully take is rather telling.

It's most likely the loot fairy. My spreadsheet has three AE runs, two of the runs (which included bonus room) resulted in 6.7M and 9.2M in loot. The 3rd run (sans bonus room) was 31.0M in loot.

tl;dr - More data points are needed.




Weren't they discussing Dread Pirate Scarlet, not AE. Or was that just a typo?

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#55 - 2014-08-03 21:06:11 UTC
I've done the Dread Scarlet enough times to know it's not out of whack.
Atleast a dozen times ran in a full kill/loot manner.

It would seem if it was a loot fairy as you called it you need to make better friends with it.
stoicfaux
#56 - 2014-08-03 23:23:23 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
Ireland VonVicious wrote:

Had one 8 mil implant but nothing else was loot fairy.

That 20 mil light in the loot/salvage you came up with for that 7 mins time it would hopefully take is rather telling.

It's most likely the loot fairy. My spreadsheet has three AE runs, two of the runs (which included bonus room) resulted in 6.7M and 9.2M in loot. The 3rd run (sans bonus room) was 31.0M in loot.

tl;dr - More data points are needed.




Weren't they discussing Dread Pirate Scarlet, not AE. Or was that just a typo?

My bad for not being clear. The implication was that if I can see a similar huge variation in AE's loot, then the huge variation we're seeing between my two Dread Pirate runs (<10M) and the OP's 33M Dread Pirate run is most likely the loot fairy in action.

OTOH, the OP claims that Dread always drops big loot, so YMMV.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#57 - 2014-08-03 23:46:40 UTC
Considering the number of battleships I dont find it surprising that there'd be so much loot.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#58 - 2014-08-04 05:14:44 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Why waste 25 minutes making ~70mil isk when you can blitz in less than 2 minutes and make 8mil?


You can't blitz it in 2 minutes. Not even close.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#59 - 2014-08-04 14:26:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Cipher Jones wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
Why waste 25 minutes making ~70mil isk when you can blitz in less than 2 minutes and make 8mil?


You can't blitz it in 2 minutes. Not even close.


Talking Dread Pirate Scarlet right? 2 minutes (not including travel time) is easy.

Warp to mission. MWD to gate, activate gate. Land shoot scarlett (to get her to leave) MWD to next gate, activate gate, land, pop scarlett, loot implant, leave.

2 to 2 and a half minutes tops. It's why I always keep a gate key in my Machariel.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#60 - 2014-08-04 14:33:34 UTC
Val Karan wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
Why waste 25 minutes making ~70mil isk when you can blitz in less than 2 minutes and make 8mil?

lol 2 minutes.
you forgot to include traveltime, this is a mission that is 90% 2-4 jumps away.


From my agent it's always 2 jumps away. My mach has warp speed rigs and an MWD. Including travel time it's no more that 4-4.5 minutes. Popping 1 cruiser and looting a can isn't hard lol.

I understand fully where Estella is coming from. When i get Dread Pirate Scarlet I'm happy as hell, I know that I'm going to get an 8 mil implant and 9400 Sisters of EVE LP for a few minutes work. It's like Recon only faster and pays better. I always blitz that mission so i can move on to the next.