These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Carrier balance proposals
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#1 - 2014-08-03 23:57:56 UTC
Couple of specific ideas here


Problem: Carriers are too good at anti-subcap work

Proposed solution:
- Apply a 'role bonus' (actually a penalty) to all carriers. "Drones smaller than fighters have a -70% modifier to tracking".
- This allows smaller ships to sig/speed tank carrier drones reasonably well, while still allowing carriers to be brutally effective against massed battleships or MWD-using cruisers. Carriers would then require subcap support to apply full damage to smaller targets.
- 70% may not be the exact best number but I feel it's about right.



Problem: Carriers are excellent at logistics work even when not using a fit dedicated to logistics

Proposed solution:
- Reduce the baseline effect of capital remote repair modules by 33%.
- Improve the stats of the triage module by 50%, so a carrier in triage is as good after the change as they are now.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-08-04 01:10:58 UTC
But my ratting carrier

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#3 - 2014-08-04 01:14:17 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
But my ratting carrier


Don't you guys do all of your ratting in AFKtars?

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#4 - 2014-08-04 01:18:13 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
But my ratting carrier


Don't you guys do all of your ratting in AFKtars?

Too mainstream. I for one, prefer using my AFKRorqual.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2014-08-04 01:18:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
But my ratting carrier


Don't you guys do all of your ratting in AFKtars?


I still use Ishtars on a couple of my newer accounts, but for the most part I use carriers now. The money is better (but unfortunately only just on par with highsec incursions)

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
jiujitsutou
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-08-04 01:33:28 UTC
I like your idea that carrier shouldnt be able to be a sufficient escort fleet for supercarrier , and i agree that this drone "bonus" (or some even more elaborate idea) would do the trick .

On the RR´s i think carrier should hold their role as logistic ships of the fleet and why shouldnt you be allowed to rep for full effect outside of triage , a) because you will need a counter for massive numbers after all (im thinking of zantheon here) and b ) cause you cant realy use triage vs anyone who can field more than 3 dreads (45-60k dps) and everyone can do that nowadays
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-08-04 01:40:18 UTC
CFC Grunt wrote:
Just removing sentries from carriers lacks imagination. Instead remove the +1 drone bonus per skill level and make dcus give 2 drones per unit. Then you need to choose between dps or logi in the high slots


I like this idea a lot actually. It lets me keep my Chariots of Ratting Autism & kicks the wrecking ball formation in the nuts.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#8 - 2014-08-04 03:08:36 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
CFC Grunt wrote:
Just removing sentries from carriers lacks imagination. Instead remove the +1 drone bonus per skill level and make dcus give 2 drones per unit. Then you need to choose between dps or logi in the high slots


I like this idea a lot actually. It lets me keep my Chariots of Ratting Autism & kicks the wrecking ball formation in the nuts.

I Also like this idea but make it two fighters but only one extra drone

as for the RR change I feel that to be unneeded

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#9 - 2014-08-04 03:22:00 UTC
jiujitsutou wrote:
I like your idea that carrier shouldnt be able to be a sufficient escort fleet for supercarrier , and i agree that this drone "bonus" (or some even more elaborate idea) would do the trick .

On the RR´s i think carrier should hold their role as logistic ships of the fleet and why shouldnt you be allowed to rep for full effect outside of triage , a) because you will need a counter for massive numbers after all (im thinking of zantheon here) and b ) cause you cant realy use triage vs anyone who can field more than 3 dreads (45-60k dps) and everyone can do that nowadays



If the opponent is willing to field multiple dreads, I don't think it's an issue if you suicide triage a carrier, especially if that means you achieve the engagement's strategic goals.

I feel the spidertanking aspect of carriers is OP at the moment. Triage, OTOH, is about where it has usually been in the meta - a trump card in small/medium gang fights that is weak in large battles. I'm happy with it there.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Daoden
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2014-08-04 04:23:22 UTC
I think carriers are fine atm. Carrier are still very reliant on others in game and that is more the balancing factor.
Personally I want them to bring back the 125Mbit Bandwidth Moroes with 20% to drone dmg and HP per level. =)
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-08-04 04:42:19 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
CFC Grunt wrote:
Just removing sentries from carriers lacks imagination. Instead remove the +1 drone bonus per skill level and make dcus give 2 drones per unit. Then you need to choose between dps or logi in the high slots


I like this idea a lot actually. It lets me keep my Chariots of Ratting Autism & kicks the wrecking ball formation in the nuts.

I Also like this idea but make it two fighters but only one extra drone

as for the RR change I feel that to be unneeded


But my ratting carrier.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#12 - 2014-08-04 04:44:56 UTC
Daoden wrote:
I think carriers are fine atm. Carrier are still very reliant on others in game


No they aren't, that is the problem.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#13 - 2014-08-04 04:47:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Sabriz Adoudel
Daoden wrote:
I think carriers are fine atm. Carrier are still very reliant on others in game and that is more the balancing factor.
Personally I want them to bring back the 125Mbit Bandwidth Moroes with 20% to drone dmg and HP per level. =)



A single carrier is indeed reliant upon support to fight off interceptors, break a Marauder's tank, or whatever.

A blob of carriers, however, is not reliant upon subcapital support at all. By contrast, a blob of Dreadnaughts isn't much use for anything other than hitting structures unless you field target painters, 90% webs, and other subcap support. At that point, they can do anti-subcap work for as long as their subcap support remains alive.

I'm happy with dreadnaught balance. They are extremely powerful, but can't do everything.



Mallak Azaria wrote:

But my ratting carrier.



Your posts of this inspired me to give you an internet like, and check to see if you had lost any ratting carriers lately. Sadly, no luck finding lossmails :(

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#14 - 2014-08-04 05:55:26 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Daoden wrote:
I think carriers are fine atm. Carrier are still very reliant on others in game and that is more the balancing factor.
Personally I want them to bring back the 125Mbit Bandwidth Moroes with 20% to drone dmg and HP per level. =)



A single carrier is indeed reliant upon support to fight off interceptors, break a Marauder's tank, or whatever.

A blob of carriers, however, is not reliant upon subcapital support at all. By contrast, a blob of Dreadnaughts isn't much use for anything other than hitting structures unless you field target painters, 90% webs, and other subcap support. At that point, they can do anti-subcap work for as long as their subcap support remains alive.

I'm happy with dreadnaught balance. They are extremely powerful, but can't do everything.



Mallak Azaria wrote:

But my ratting carrier.



Your posts of this inspired me to give you an internet like, and check to see if you had lost any ratting carriers lately. Sadly, no luck finding lossmails :(


A blob of anything in this game is unbeatable.

Stop stuffing up ships, fix the blob.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#15 - 2014-08-04 08:11:17 UTC
I don't know. Somehow I see frigates as a blob losing to HACs and other similar things.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Velicitia
XS Tech
#16 - 2014-08-04 10:15:07 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:

Triage, OTOH, is about where it has usually been in the meta - a trump card in small/medium gang fights that is weak in large battles. I'm happy with it there.


Unless you're in RnK.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#17 - 2014-08-04 11:12:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
or change drone-bays on carriers and super-carriers too fighter-bays ... which ofc only allow fighters inside..

which would allow them too change the really high numbers like 7,500 too simpler numbers .. by changing the bandwidth on fighters and carriers/super-carriers..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2014-08-04 11:19:53 UTC
Challenge.. how to make the Nidd usefulll....

My vote is to give it the mass of a battleship :P :P :P

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
jiujitsutou
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2014-08-04 12:01:04 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
jiujitsutou wrote:
I like your idea that carrier shouldnt be able to be a sufficient escort fleet for supercarrier , and i agree that this drone "bonus" (or some even more elaborate idea) would do the trick .

On the RR´s i think carrier should hold their role as logistic ships of the fleet and why shouldnt you be allowed to rep for full effect outside of triage , a) because you will need a counter for massive numbers after all (im thinking of zantheon here) and b ) cause you cant realy use triage vs anyone who can field more than 3 dreads (45-60k dps) and everyone can do that nowadays



If the opponent is willing to field multiple dreads, I don't think it's an issue if you suicide triage a carrier, especially if that means you achieve the engagement's strategic goals.

I feel the spidertanking aspect of carriers is OP at the moment. Triage, OTOH, is about where it has usually been in the meta - a trump card in small/medium gang fights that is weak in large battles. I'm happy with it there.



Well thats sadly not the reality that you sacrifice 1 triage and in the 25 seconds he lives (because of 15 second dread lock time) you gonne kill enough dreads to win the fight, atleast not when you are outnumbered like mad and cant field supers or more dreads . So why should i in this situation not be allowed to even the playing ground with something that is very skill intensive (and sp) hard to setup and still disruptable by ewar?
If you are now raising the blob argument ... well blobbing is the problem not the ships used for it .
Mario Putzo
#20 - 2014-08-04 13:20:52 UTC
Nothing wrong with Carriers to be quite honest. The problem, like everything else goes back to sov mechanics. Fix Sov, spread people out, and presto all these issues with balls of dudes goes away. Power projection, Carriers, Supers, all that **** is just a symptom of an overaged system that has reached its end of functionality in the game.

Make sov easier to flip by getting rid of timers and creating a similar system to FW in Null to force people into smaller groups covering more space.

Every problem with nullsec and ships "over use" stems from the pile of **** that is Dominion Sov.
12Next page