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Seriously now CCP

First post
Author
Derus Grobb
Iron Oxide Institute
#21 - 2011-12-08 17:07:03 UTC
There are hundreds of pages of player feedback on FW. CCP just need to sort through and actually implement some of it.
Captain Alcatraz
Did he say Jump
Dock Workers
#22 - 2011-12-08 17:11:46 UTC
CCP Solomon wrote:
The more people who care about a problem, the longer it takes to build consensus on a solution.


CCP Solomon wrote:
Keep talking, keep raising your concerns and be a part of the solution.


eternal trap
Written Word
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#23 - 2011-12-08 17:16:31 UTC
Unless Dust is going to fix FW, don't hold your breath for seeing anything for FW in 2012.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
#24 - 2011-12-08 17:18:21 UTC
Captain Alcatraz wrote:
CCP Solomon wrote:
The more people who care about a problem, the longer it takes to build consensus on a solution.


CCP Solomon wrote:
Keep talking, keep raising your concerns and be a part of the solution.


eternal trap


It's the fabled wisdom of Solomon at work.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#25 - 2011-12-08 17:27:48 UTC
Derus Grobb wrote:
There are hundreds of pages of player feedback on FW. CCP just need to sort through and actually implement some of it.


Which is exactly what's been going on.

I understand everyone's frustration with FW improvement delays, no one wants to see this fixed more than I. The fact remains that CCP has admitted to not working on spaceship features as much as they needed to, spending over a year to develop a dead-end feature with Incarna. Now that the company as been restructured and resouces reallocated, we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg in terms of what the future holds for EvE proper. Unclogging the Incarna hairball has released a glut of new features, updates, and improvements, and there simply is a massive backlog of features to plow through. At least its all underway and at record speed.

I can tell you for certain that the CSM is fully aware of the full range of FW issues (I've personally spoken with many of them to oversee that) , and is discussing them with CCP. CCP also is fully aware of what needs fixing, since most of the main FW issues have been on record in the official backlog ratified years ago. I truly believe, from everyone I've spoken to - CSM and CCP alike - that it is not a matter of if Faction Warfare will be improved and updated, but when. All I can do is share my experience, whether anyone is encouraged by that or not.

As for what CCP's own vision is for Faction Warfare - that is a fantastic question, and one I'd love to hear an answer for. Unfortunately, its up to the CSM to share what they've heard during the high-level discussions they're having with CCP at the summit that is underway as we speak. And if they're unable to answer this question to our satisfaction, the only way we'll learn that vision will be for all those interested in Faction Warfare to unite behind a candidate in the upcoming elections that will ask those questions.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Murashu
Filthy Peasants
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#26 - 2011-12-08 18:27:09 UTC
CCP Diagoras wrote:
I had forgotten about the militias/FW....

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2011-12-08 18:38:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
Okay, i'll bite to the dev post.

I never was a roleplayer before EvE and i actually have never ever played a MMORPG before EvE,
simply because they didn't have the requirements i expected from a MMORPG (Freedom of choice and impact!).
EvE is the only real MMORPG out there.

The first time i heard about factional warfare, it got me quite exited.
FW is all about role play and i thought: "Hey ... why not ... sounds great!"

And then i realized ... "wtf? Why should i do this?"

The ranks are worthless, have no meaning and can be too easily obtained.
Winning a system does not have any impact whatsoever.
Given that it's EvE, this is a major flaw.

FW seems to only be about small scale PvP, which for itself is okay,
but on the other hand simply is not enough given the topic of having
FACTIONS COMPETE AGAINST EACH OTHER.

Of course, many will consider FW the holy grail of small scale PvP
and i accept (and i'm glad) that they have fun with that, but FW could/SHOULD be so much more.

If there's no way to be a "hero", then it lacks intention to play it.
One could have more kills than others, but that's only something to brag about.
It does not have any impact. There's no "bigger scheme" that rewards this.

If there's no way that my own faction can stand out compared to the others,
besides silly bragging rights which have no impact,
then it lacks intention to play it.

Of course, there's plenty of gray between all that black and white,
but that's simply how i see it. Statistically speaking,
there's plenty of others who see it the same way as i do in one form or the other.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#28 - 2011-12-08 18:42:34 UTC
Murashu wrote:
CCP Diagoras wrote:
I had forgotten about the militias/FW....



Can you reference the source of this comment? I'm very curious.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#29 - 2011-12-08 19:10:38 UTC
Also - Solstice, you hit the nail on the head. I don't think anyone could have summarized the Faction Warfare situation better than you did.

This is why I urge players and developers alike to not use current participation metrics to evaluate whether Faction Warfare is worth iterating on. So many like yourself have come in and said "whats the point?" and left, with arguably good cause. All those that have walked away from feature stand to benefit from its revision, not just those of us that left for whom the killmail race and abundant small gang pew pew are entertainment enough to keep fighting amongst each other.

Essentially FW is alive not through any form of central driving mechanic, but rather the sheer force of will amongst a dedicated community who believe too strongly in the potential of CCP's original concept to give up advocating on its behalf. The fact that most players would rather participate in other activities with greater large-scale impact should be just as much impetus to improve the Faction Warfare system so that it, too, lives up to the EvE standard of dynamic and meaningful gameplay.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

The Snowman
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2011-12-08 21:37:37 UTC
or rather just consolidate all the feedback in one place, and not just one thread.... a seperate forum is definatly whats needed. Even after any major revamp, like a CAOD but just for fw.

I just dont beleive that the problem takes longer because more people care... usually when you run any test then more results means better averages that are more acurate and MORE common ground can be established.

Start with the common ground... and the common ground that everyone agree's on is more reward, more 'reason' to do it, and not just farm LP to spend on crappy LP store.

Rewards that matter like acheivments, bragging rights.. not every reward is just about cash. start with that, the rest can be hammerd out from there when people actually start playing FW

Runawaypally
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2011-12-09 01:17:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Runawaypally
Guess ill use EvE-Search and try to pull up all of the FW threads and list the ideas in a consolidated list. Obviously troll post ideas wont make it in the list, but it may take some time before I complete the list due to the dozens of threads and several threadnaughts.... oh boy Shocked

Corrected spelling, stupid phone...

If any one would like to help with the orginizing/spelling corrections/removing double/tripple/umpteenmillionth copies of same idea, it would speed things up considerably. As well as not make your eyes bleed reading it like its making mine trying to orgnize it. Roll
Derus Grobb
Iron Oxide Institute
#32 - 2011-12-09 01:29:16 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Murashu wrote:
CCP Diagoras wrote:
I had forgotten about the militias/FW....



Can you reference the source of this comment? I'm very curious.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=454440#post454440

Context is important, to pick fault with Diagoras for that is stupid imo.

Also, Hans it looks like good things will happen in the summer. If so, the militias should all buy you beer or something.
Simyaldee
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#33 - 2011-12-09 03:01:31 UTC
I honestly was slightly gladdened when I found out that the plexing spawn Mechanic was fixed, but the overall Occupancy system was not. Coming up with a good system will take time and at least this shows that CCP is at least thinking about it.

Honestly there can many many ways to fix Faction Warfare but as many have said it all depends on what the vision of FW is today.

For me(and I think most of you agree with me on this), FW should be focused on the encouragement of small-scale PvP i.e 1-50 man gangs. There have been many many ways discussed on the forums how to do this so I'm not going to state my own.

The One thing I do not want is for Faction Warfare to turn into a smaller-scale null sec. I fight Gallente(and occasionally Minmatar) all the time without the motivation of money. We just want fights, for some reason Null Sec PvP'rs who are for the most part are only part-time PvP'rs(their are rare exceptions) can't understand this. In a nutshell most Null sec people imo think PvP to Earn isk, while most of us in Faction Warfare think Earn ISK to PvP. I don't want to be encouraged to fight Gallente over a plex so I can earn money, I want to be encourage to fight Gallente because if they win it will change the way I have to play (i.e station rights etc) and there will be a very noticeable difference in the appearence of my gameplay(i.e. Station Models, a better UI for the Occupancy System etc.).

Also while were on this topic I want to put forward a variation of Faction Warfare for Dust 514, if clone Capsuleers can fight for the State/Republic/Federation/Empire, why not clone Mercenaries?

Member, Fighter and FC for The Great Harmon Institute of Technology 

Leisen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#34 - 2011-12-09 03:14:37 UTC
CCP Solomon wrote:
The more people who care about a problem, the longer it takes to build consensus on a solution.

Only the other day I was involved in a brainstorming session about the future of Factional Warfare and believe me when I say there are a lot of people here who care.

Keep talking, keep raising your concerns and be a part of the solution.



This sounds reasonable at first, even refreshing to hear that it hasn't been forgotten about. But to expect your customers to be giving you the same requests, the same feedback on a part of the game, for YEARS, is...ridiculous at best. It's an absolute failure on your end. If CCP would have TRIED to fix FW years ago, and failed, it would be fixed by now. You have to jump in and try something sometime, because guess what, you aren't going to get it right the first time. You never have.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#35 - 2011-12-09 03:26:13 UTC
Mr Kidd wrote:
CCP Solomon wrote:
The more people who care about a problem, the longer it takes to build consensus on a solution.

Only the other day I was involved in a brainstorming session about the future of Factional Warfare and believe me when I say there are a lot of people here who care.

Keep talking, keep raising your concerns and be a part of the solution.


Allow me to translate these 'sage' words:

"Soon(tm)"

This comment, if brought to it's ultimate logical conclusion, means that the more people that care the longer it will take. Ultimately as Y number of people increases the smaller the chance of a consensus and a tangible solution ( X ). However, conversely as Y approaches 0 or, in other words, the less people that care, the solution ( X ) also approaches infinity. So, in the end, my friends, FW will be fixed in approximately never.


Just like hybrids.

That's why I cross trained Minmatar and hell I'm happy I've done it and strongly advice every noob to do so.

Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
#36 - 2011-12-09 04:24:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Kuronaga
CCP Solomon wrote:
The more people who care about a problem, the longer it takes to build consensus on a solution.



Keep talking, keep raising your concerns and be a part of the solution.



So you're telling me I should be a part of the solution so that it takes longer?

I'm confused by this flawed play on words you have used.
Zendoren
Aktaeon Industries
#37 - 2011-12-09 05:01:19 UTC
CCP Solomon wrote:
The more people who care about a problem, the longer it takes to build consensus on a solution.

Only the other day I was involved in a brainstorming session about the future of Factional Warfare and believe me when I say there are a lot of people here who care.

Keep talking, keep raising your concerns and be a part of the solution.


If this is a topic that CCP would like more info on from the community, Might I suggest that we sticky this topic to the top as to encourage more participation and thus producing a consensus among the community faster. (<- ROFL!?)

❒ Single ❒ Taken ✔ Playing EVE Online

CCP Guard > Where's the shoot button on this thing?

CCP Space Cadet > What's this "offline guns" button do?

Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#38 - 2011-12-09 05:06:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Hans Jagerblitzen
Runawaypally wrote:
Guess ill use EvE-Search and try to pull up all of the FW threads and list the ideas in a consolidated list. Obviously troll post ideas wont make it in the list, but it may take some time before I complete the list due to the dozens of threads and several threadnaughts.... oh boy Shocked

Corrected spelling, stupid phone...

If any one would like to help with the orginizing/spelling corrections/removing double/tripple/umpteenmillionth copies of same idea, it would speed things up considerably. As well as not make your eyes bleed reading it like its making mine trying to orgnize it. Roll


Have you had a chance to check out the main Faction Warfare discussion thread? I have already compiled a list of all the relevant threads containing Faction Warfare feedback, as well as consolidated the most popular fix requests into a "top 10" list, both are stickied at the top of the thread. I've been updating it continuously as new threads emerge, though CCP and the CSM have both urged us as a community to keep our discussion and feedback into a single thread so they can access it efficiently. I would love to hear more ongoing ideas and debate, but lets please keep it to the central location so that we don't frustrate them any further.

Also, The Mittani liked the Top Ten list enough that he personally saw that it was posted up on the internal CCP / CSM forums for discussion, and the CSM has also just concluded a long session talking about FW and wormholes as part of the summit currently underway. Trebor tweeted that there were some fun ideas in store for FW....

I used to be a lot more cynical about Faction Warfare's chances to see improvement, but we've definitely got the discussion going at the topmost levels once again. I'm very hopeful we'll see some meaningful changes if we continue to keep letting CCP and the CSM know how much FW means to us and how much it can improve the game in general.

EDIT - And yes Runaway, this is the same thing I said in my email reply to you, but I wanted to post here as well so others in the community had a status update on the fact that Faction Warfare is most certainly on CCP's radar.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#39 - 2011-12-09 08:27:33 UTC
Derus Grobb wrote:

Also, Hans it looks like good things will happen in the summer. If so, the militias should all buy you beer or something.


Quafe Zero works fine, and is much easier to send :)

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Ltd SpacePig
No.Mercy
Triumvirate.
#40 - 2011-12-09 09:23:12 UTC
I listen to Mintchips interview with Soundwave last night and FW will get some love. Problem is that FW is so broken that it doesn't just need some smaller changes it needs to be rethinked and that takes time. It's about 4 - 5 month ago that CCP turned their ship around and started to listen so there was no time for FW in this patch. I would expect some changes to the summer patch. As the dev said in this thread.. be a part of the solution and come with ideas on what you want. I know there is already tons of threads about it but give them more.

FW like nullsec sov warfare was some cool stuff they put into the game but they didn't really plan on how to support and evolve the feature. This is stuff they need to do now. They should of course done it before they put it into the game but better late then ever hey :)
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