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W space little things.

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corbexx
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#361 - 2014-08-01 13:32:26 UTC
Axloth Okiah wrote:
This could be fixed by increasing demand for sleeper salvage, ie. adding new things to build from it. And not necessarily only T3 frigs or BSs - could be T3 modules, rigs, ammo or even some special structures/deployables. Making salvage worth more would help low-class and non-escalating wormholers disproportionately more than C5/6 capital farmers (as those mostly rely on blue loot).



I do like this and its something that i've already suggested in passing to some people down side is its not really a "little thing" but will add it to the list of stuff.

Corbexx for CSM X - Wormholes still deserve better
Kynric
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#362 - 2014-08-01 13:34:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Kynric
Axloth Okiah wrote:
Maduin Shi wrote:
Shilalasar wrote:
Sadly everything bar escalations is out of proportion compared to any other PvE activity.
Incursions are just the worst, but lvl5s, T4/5-FW missions, piratemissions, nullsec DEDs all make more, are less risky and more reliable than wormholesites. Hell, with ESS and fighterchanges you can now easily make 150m/h even in bad dronespace.
The only reason for running non-escalationsites is because you love wormholespace.


This +1.

Even C1/C2 is more dangerous than any of these activities because of no local while the site payout is absolute garbage. These holes are now used basically for PI and industry (passive income w/ zombie towers) for export to k-space and that is sad.
This could be fixed by increasing demand for sleeper salvage, ie. adding new things to build from it. And not necessarily only T3 frigs or BSs - could be T3 modules, rigs, ammo or even some special structures/deployables. Making salvage worth more would help low-class and non-escalating wormholers disproportionately more than C5/6 capital farmers (as those mostly rely on blue loot).


I agree. However, the problem is slightly complicated by the fact that there is no loot or gas that resides in low class holes that is not also found in c5/6 holes. As such anything that increases income in low class wormholes will also increase it in the high end ones as well.
Winthorp
#363 - 2014-08-01 13:34:55 UTC
corbexx wrote:
Axloth Okiah wrote:
This could be fixed by increasing demand for sleeper salvage, ie. adding new things to build from it. And not necessarily only T3 frigs or BSs - could be T3 modules, rigs, ammo or even some special structures/deployables. Making salvage worth more would help low-class and non-escalating wormholers disproportionately more than C5/6 capital farmers (as those mostly rely on blue loot).



I do like this and its something that i've already suggested in passing to some people down side is its not really a "little thing" but will add it to the list of stuff.



I do like where your thought process heads on this and i have no concerns i wouldn't like any idea to do with T3 products but as you are a large T3 sub/ship builder doesn't that go to conflict of interest almost?
ExookiZ
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#364 - 2014-08-01 13:43:44 UTC
Ive always imagined all the CSM reps fight for what would benefit their portion of EVE, while it still may be a conflict of interests, I think it is a expected one.

Event Organizer of EVE North East
corbexx
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#365 - 2014-08-01 13:43:56 UTC
Winthorp wrote:
corbexx wrote:
Axloth Okiah wrote:
This could be fixed by increasing demand for sleeper salvage, ie. adding new things to build from it. And not necessarily only T3 frigs or BSs - could be T3 modules, rigs, ammo or even some special structures/deployables. Making salvage worth more would help low-class and non-escalating wormholers disproportionately more than C5/6 capital farmers (as those mostly rely on blue loot).



I do like this and its something that i've already suggested in passing to some people down side is its not really a "little thing" but will add it to the list of stuff.



I do like where your thought process heads on this and i have no concerns i wouldn't like any idea to do with T3 products but as you are a large T3 sub/ship builder doesn't that go to conflict of interest almost?


not really as alot of the stuff could be modules or things which i wouldnt be part of at all. Anything affectiing the price of the nanos would just be passed on to customers

Corbexx for CSM X - Wormholes still deserve better
corbexx
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#366 - 2014-08-01 13:45:59 UTC
Kynric wrote:
Axloth Okiah wrote:
Maduin Shi wrote:
Shilalasar wrote:
Sadly everything bar escalations is out of proportion compared to any other PvE activity.
Incursions are just the worst, but lvl5s, T4/5-FW missions, piratemissions, nullsec DEDs all make more, are less risky and more reliable than wormholesites. Hell, with ESS and fighterchanges you can now easily make 150m/h even in bad dronespace.
The only reason for running non-escalationsites is because you love wormholespace.


This +1.

Even C1/C2 is more dangerous than any of these activities because of no local while the site payout is absolute garbage. These holes are now used basically for PI and industry (passive income w/ zombie towers) for export to k-space and that is sad.
This could be fixed by increasing demand for sleeper salvage, ie. adding new things to build from it. And not necessarily only T3 frigs or BSs - could be T3 modules, rigs, ammo or even some special structures/deployables. Making salvage worth more would help low-class and non-escalating wormholers disproportionately more than C5/6 capital farmers (as those mostly rely on blue loot).


I agree. However, the problem is slightly complicated by the fact that there is no loot or gas that resides in low class holes that is not also found in c5/6 holes. As such anything that increases income in low class wormholes will also increase it in the high end ones as well.


I wouldnt worry to much about that as tbh speaking for noho the only stuff people gas is the c540 and c320 maybe if they are really really bored d28 and c32. and if stuff like taht was a issue the low end gas sites could always be removed from c5 and c6's

Corbexx for CSM X - Wormholes still deserve better
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#367 - 2014-08-01 14:02:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Feature/idea: Add a solar energy harvesting array that reduces the fuel cost of all POSs in a system. Requires sleeper loot to build and can only be anchored next to the sun. Bear

Add a Sleeper technology replication device - You put one piece of salvage in and get two out. It takes 48 hours to process and the device can only be anchored at the sun.

Crazy ideas out of the way...

Corbexx, do you know if CCP have ever considered adding roaming sleeper to WH space and if so, why haven't they done it yet? (You can answer this one, it's not NDA breaking Blink)

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Kynric
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#368 - 2014-08-01 14:03:54 UTC
corbexx wrote:
Kynric wrote:
Axloth Okiah wrote:
Maduin Shi wrote:
Shilalasar wrote:
Sadly everything bar escalations is out of proportion compared to any other PvE activity.
Incursions are just the worst, but lvl5s, T4/5-FW missions, piratemissions, nullsec DEDs all make more, are less risky and more reliable than wormholesites. Hell, with ESS and fighterchanges you can now easily make 150m/h even in bad dronespace.
The only reason for running non-escalationsites is because you love wormholespace.


This +1.

Even C1/C2 is more dangerous than any of these activities because of no local while the site payout is absolute garbage. These holes are now used basically for PI and industry (passive income w/ zombie towers) for export to k-space and that is sad.
This could be fixed by increasing demand for sleeper salvage, ie. adding new things to build from it. And not necessarily only T3 frigs or BSs - could be T3 modules, rigs, ammo or even some special structures/deployables. Making salvage worth more would help low-class and non-escalating wormholers disproportionately more than C5/6 capital farmers (as those mostly rely on blue loot).


I agree. However, the problem is slightly complicated by the fact that there is no loot or gas that resides in low class holes that is not also found in c5/6 holes. As such anything that increases income in low class wormholes will also increase it in the high end ones as well.


I wouldnt worry to much about that as tbh speaking for noho the only stuff people gas is the c540 and c320 maybe if they are really really bored d28 and c32. and if stuff like taht was a issue the low end gas sites could always be removed from c5 and c6's



My point was that if increasing c1 income is the goal, and if that is approached by greatly increasing the demand for c50 or powdered graphite or some other low value object, you will in effect increase the income of the entire food chain. As such the required solution probably takes more effort than simply adding demand. Unless of course the goal is to increase the income for all. I think the demand increase is one half of the solution not the entire solution.
Axloth Okiah
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#369 - 2014-08-01 18:07:38 UTC
Thats why I said sleeper salvage and not gas.

SSC Brokering Service
Jez Amatin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#370 - 2014-08-02 11:01:22 UTC
Not sure if this has been mentioned already, but ill throw it anyway. On dscan, when message box pops up with: "Your scanner is recalibrating ..."

I'd like my dscan to receive an upgrade so this doesn't happen as often. I think the problem is made worse by the new UI where it thinks each increment of range is a scan (may be wrong, but that's what it seems like).
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#371 - 2014-08-02 15:05:39 UTC
1.A tiny boost to ninja gas mining would be nice, allow SOME variation in the timer so that sometimes you can gain a little more opportunity to suck gas? The prospect does not really enhance ninja gassing with it's larger bay as the frigging rats always come before your hold is full with a venture unless boosted.

2. I was going to suggest marking activated sites somehow, so that you had less stress when warping in to gas and getting immediately whelped by rats, but I suppose that thats part of the "charm" even though thats not exactly fun?

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Maduin Shi
MAGA Inc
#372 - 2014-08-02 15:25:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Maduin Shi
corbexx wrote:
Axloth Okiah wrote:
This could be fixed by increasing demand for sleeper salvage, ie. adding new things to build from it. And not necessarily only T3 frigs or BSs - could be T3 modules, rigs, ammo or even some special structures/deployables. Making salvage worth more would help low-class and non-escalating wormholers disproportionately more than C5/6 capital farmers (as those mostly rely on blue loot).



I do like this and its something that i've already suggested in passing to some people down side is its not really a "little thing" but will add it to the list of stuff.


Corbexx, if you can come up with a short-term fix for non-escalation site income in lower class wormholes, then this could become a "little thing". It could be something as simple as ramping up salvage consumption other than nanoribbons in the construction of T3's and subsystems and then making a couple of adjustments to the loot tables so that certain salvage only drops from low tier sleepers in non-escalation sites. Can simply edit existing code to do it I would think.

Also, if there's a short term "quick fix" for the Discovery Scanner, like just approximating the length of time for a covops frig or T3 to spawn and warp to the K162 and jump through (align time + warp speed * distance to the K162 + session change time) and then adding that in as a delay for the K162 to appear on the Discovery Scanner, it could probably be a "little thing" as well, and good enough to make a lot of folks happier. Then we can sit around and wait until CCP gets around to a complete revamp.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#373 - 2014-08-02 16:08:04 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Maduin Shi wrote:
corbexx wrote:
Axloth Okiah wrote:
This could be fixed by increasing demand for sleeper salvage, ie. adding new things to build from it. And not necessarily only T3 frigs or BSs - could be T3 modules, rigs, ammo or even some special structures/deployables. Making salvage worth more would help low-class and non-escalating wormholers disproportionately more than C5/6 capital farmers (as those mostly rely on blue loot).



I do like this and its something that i've already suggested in passing to some people down side is its not really a "little thing" but will add it to the list of stuff.


Corbexx, if you can come up with a short-term fix for non-escalation site income in lower class wormholes, then this could become a "little thing". It could be something as simple as ramping up salvage consumption other than nanoribbons in the construction of T3's and subsystems and then making a couple of adjustments to the loot tables so that certain salvage only drops from low tier sleepers in non-escalation sites. Can simply edit existing code to do it I would think.

Also, if there's a short term "quick fix" for the Discovery Scanner, like just approximating the length of time for a covops frig or T3 to spawn and warp to the K162 and jump through (align time + warp speed * distance to the K162 + session change time) and then adding that in as a delay for the K162 to appear on the Discovery Scanner, it could probably be a "little thing" as well, and good enough to make a lot of folks happier. Then we can sit around and wait until CCP gets around to a complete revamp.


Trying to see what you are trying to achieve with this delay? If someone is Dscanning every couple of seconds, do you want to be able to seed a covert ops before he can see the hole spawn? They are pretty hard to see with dscan as the only need less than a second to decloak/enter warp/cloak? So is this using the failiure of the dscan interface,coupled with a new spawn mechanic to make it impossible, no matter how alert, to make some attempt to protect yourself?

So the first an occupant would know would be the hole flaring, and combat ships warping to zero to pre prepared and pre scouted attack positions?

If so this would significantly reduce targets and activity in wormholes as they have just become suicide zones to do anything in.
If one thought that mining was risky at the moment in wormholes, well this "little thing"!Shocked

So tl;dr it would Not make either PvE. Or PvP players happy at all........

After the first weeks carnage, there is nothing left to hunt.

If there's nothing to hunt, why would I stay?

We need to be incredibly careful not to disturb the balance of wormholes too significantly, an attempt to encourage more kills can easily lead to the same situation as the bufallo/bison in America.

You may notice the plains are not currently covered from horizon to horizon with herds of buffalo any more, wormholes could easily become just as deserted.

If anything we want to encourage more activity not a mechanic to give a quick boost and then nothing...... Forever........system after system.....empty.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
BayneNothos
United Electro-Magnetic Federation
Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners
#374 - 2014-08-02 16:55:16 UTC
New little thing just found.

Last patch CCP added to the preview window a camera movement from the front of the ship to a 45degree look. It lasts about 2 seconds and during it you can't rotate the camera in the preview window. It also plays EVERY TIME you select a subsystem to look at. It's really irritating when trying to intel a T3 you're looking at to see what it has.

Can we get a button to turn this off or turn it off when changing subsystems.
Maduin Shi
MAGA Inc
#375 - 2014-08-02 18:24:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Maduin Shi
Maduin Shi wrote:
Axloth Okiah wrote:

Corbexx, if you can come up with a short-term fix for non-escalation site income in lower class wormholes, then this could become a "little thing". It could be something as simple as ramping up salvage consumption other than nanoribbons in the construction of T3's and subsystems and then making a couple of adjustments to the loot tables so that certain salvage only drops from low tier sleepers in non-escalation sites. Can simply edit existing code to do it I would think.

Also, if there's a short term "quick fix" for the Discovery Scanner, like just approximating the length of time for a covops frig or T3 to spawn and warp to the K162 and jump through (align time + warp speed * distance to the K162 + session change time) and then adding that in as a delay for the K162 to appear on the Discovery Scanner, it could probably be a "little thing" as well, and good enough to make a lot of folks happier. Then we can sit around and wait until CCP gets around to a complete revamp.


Trying to see what you are trying to achieve with this delay? If someone is Dscanning every couple of seconds, do you want to be able to seed a covert ops before he can see the hole spawn? They are pretty hard to see with dscan as the only need less than a second to decloak/enter warp/cloak? So is this using the failiure of the dscan interface,coupled with a new spawn mechanic to make it impossible, no matter how alert, to make some attempt to protect yourself?


Right now the way it works is, as soon as a ship warps to the wormhole signature, the wormhole spawns immediately. It takes maybe 30 - 60 seconds or so for the invading ship to align, warp to the new K162 and jump through. During that time the new K162 is visible immediately on the Discovery Scanner. The timing heavily favors potential "prey" if they are watching the Discovery Scanner. They POS up, and it ends there.


Now, I would prefer a revamp to the wormhole spawning mechanics wholesale, where the K162 signature doesn't appear on the Discovery Scanner until a ship has actually jumped through it and is given maybe a 5 second session timer. But that's probably not a "little thing".

Maybe a "little thing" would be simply a rough delay that's implemented for all 0% sigs (align time + warp speed * distance to the K162 + session change time). Others have suggested eliminating the Discovery Scanner entirely or removing 0% sigs until probed, which I would be OK with if the non-escalation combat site values went up CONSIDERABLY to compensate for the risk. It'd have to be better payouts than null ratting anoms, at the very least, so cost of ship and pod is covered.


Axloth Okiah wrote:

If anything we want to encourage more activity not a mechanic to give a quick boost and then nothing...... Forever........system after system.....empty.


Take a look around...we're there already cuz the financial incentive isn't there to begin with :P
umnikar
Fishbone Industries
#376 - 2014-08-03 08:08:19 UTC
As soon as I enter certain sites, specially "Sleeper Information Sanctum" in C4 my PC starts to overheat and lags like hell.
If I move in more than 1 client in, fps drops to dia show on at least 1 client - not on all. I am loosing ships cause of that...
I don't have this issue in other sites. I already play on lowest possible gfx settings.

AMD phenom II x4 940be, 8gb ram, nvidia gtx 560ti with 2gb
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
#377 - 2014-08-03 08:19:40 UTC
That is a problem with the clouds in some sites and even some missions. CCP have known about it for years, just evesearch for it. Turning particles off and not having them on the monitor helps a lot.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#378 - 2014-08-03 09:55:12 UTC
One thing driving me nuts from time to time are lowclass-sentries, those Argos (I believe) that force you to run c1/c2 anoms with a HAC/BC/Gila atleast. While some are painfully slow, some are mindnumbing expensive for the money you earn that way. The whole idea of treating pve more like pvp (i.E. noobs in their wolves/hawks running anoms) simply doesn't work cause *those sentries*. Better: You can only run 1 or two types of anoms unless you take the ONE DRAKEFIT to run it at low SP. Wormholes are hostile enough to low-SP players as is, it would be sweet if the options to generate money inside a hole would allow you to go in in smaller ships by being a better pilot (durr, transversal)

It's simply, I've taken many noobs (~1-2mil SP) into c1/c2 to show them around holes and run some anoms with them using rifters - while it works in (for example) perimeter hangars/c2 (running 3-4 rifters works just fine), a perimeter camp/c1 will simply slaughter you one by one even though it's supposed to be easier just cause 2 sirius pop you on warp-in. The necessity to take out expensive ships is quite contraproductive to getting new people into wormholes (better now, used to be HAC/T3 or get out).

To top it off, sleeper sentries don't switch targets. So oldschool. So dumb. And as many people pointed out, afk-mining in highsec is usually way superior to running sites in a poorly skilled drake, dafuq. At least given that in a c2, 25mil an hour from a single drake with some proper MNR drops is quite wonderful with your puny 230dps, while 15mil/hr/toon having some miners active on a roid is almost a laughable revenue for that sort of activity, and then you're even in highsec, the only threat being overzealous suicide gankers (use dcu if you like to go afk). Since wormholes got introduced, trit went up by 150% in value (2.3 -> 5.2 atm?), while valuables you get out of wormholes dropped from ~7mil/MNR to the current ~3mil. (excluding the spikey near 10mil from 2011 to 2012)

Really about time for a wormhole-mats/payout revamp.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#379 - 2014-08-03 12:41:50 UTC
Can anyone tel me if the capital-sma bug (where you could access it from outside the force field) has been fixed? A link to the patch notes / dev post would be nice too.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Michael1995
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#380 - 2014-08-03 13:37:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael1995
Rek Seven wrote:
Can anyone tel me if the capital-sma bug (where you could access it from outside the force field) has been fixed? A link to the patch notes / dev post would be nice too.



http://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-kronos

Quote:
The physical size of the X-Large Ship Maintenance Array and Capital Ship Assembly Array has been reduced slightly to ensure that they fit within starbase forcefields. The capacity of these structures is not affected by this change.


Quote:
A ship on the edge of a starbase forcefield that is also within 5km of a structure will not be allowed to access that structure unless it has appropriate corp roles and either a) has entered the correct forcefield password or b) the forcefield is configured to allow corp/alliance access.


IIRC, when I tested it you couldn't access the XL SMA from outside the forcefield if it's on a large tower. But you still can access it on a medium. Ugh

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