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Covert POS
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Angeal MacNova
Holefood Inc.
Warriors of the Blood God
#1 - 2014-08-01 15:36:14 UTC
I love the idea of covert operations. I think this part of the game could use more attention. I'm curious about the possibility of POS cloaking.

A POS module that does the following:

Cloaks all POS structures.

Limitations:

Any ship that gets within 2000m (is it 2000m?) will cause the cloak to break.

The POS shields can not be active at the same time.


http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#2 - 2014-08-01 15:42:19 UTC
Angeal MacNova
Holefood Inc.
Warriors of the Blood God
#3 - 2014-08-01 15:44:52 UTC
To flesh out more diverse ways of playing and enrich the EVE experience.

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#4 - 2014-08-01 16:18:56 UTC
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2014-08-01 16:25:07 UTC
Angeal MacNova wrote:
To flesh out more diverse ways of playing and enrich the EVE experience.



How would it do that in a way that existing structures wouldn't?
Altirius Saldiaro
Doomheim
#6 - 2014-08-01 16:31:18 UTC
Cloaking module for pos would be cool. As long as nothing inside can function while its cloaked and the cloak uses up double the fuel that the pos would normally use.
Angeal MacNova
Holefood Inc.
Warriors of the Blood God
#7 - 2014-08-01 17:39:02 UTC
Altirius Saldiaro wrote:
Cloaking module for pos would be cool. As long as nothing inside can function while its cloaked and the cloak uses up double the fuel that the pos would normally use.


Then what would be the point?

I'd say to run it, it would use both the fuel blocks and strontium.

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#8 - 2014-08-01 17:41:21 UTC
Angeal MacNova wrote:
Altirius Saldiaro wrote:
Cloaking module for pos would be cool. As long as nothing inside can function while its cloaked and the cloak uses up double the fuel that the pos would normally use.


Then what would be the point?

I'd say to run it, it would use both the fuel blocks and strontium.

well that's how cloaking balance works dude.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Angeal MacNova
Holefood Inc.
Warriors of the Blood God
#9 - 2014-08-01 17:56:26 UTC
That's not balance, that's uselessness.

Balance is trading one kind of defense (shields) for another (cloak). With the only difference being that a POS with shields can be found and attacked, while a cloaked POS can't (as easily).

To balance that you have the following:

A POS with shields can attack hostiles but a cloaked POS can not unless decloaked. Once decloaked, without shields, the POS is completely vulnerable.

While the POS functions while cloaked (manufacturing, reactions, etc.) it has to de-cloak when players are interacting with it. Thus it can be scanned down at this point.

It should go without saying that the limitation in place to balance cloaking on a ship doesn't fit when applied to a POS.

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#10 - 2014-08-01 18:06:03 UTC
if you are cloaked you are invulnerable, why would you be allowed to do anything.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Angeal MacNova
Holefood Inc.
Warriors of the Blood God
#11 - 2014-08-01 18:08:44 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
if you are cloaked you are invulnerable, why would you be allowed to do anything.


No you're not.

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#12 - 2014-08-01 18:10:08 UTC
Angeal MacNova wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
if you are cloaked you are invulnerable, why would you be allowed to do anything.


No you're not.



Tell us how, exactly, a POS is vulnerable if it's cloaked?
Angeal MacNova
Holefood Inc.
Warriors of the Blood God
#13 - 2014-08-01 18:18:43 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Angeal MacNova wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
if you are cloaked you are invulnerable, why would you be allowed to do anything.


No you're not.



Tell us how, exactly, a POS is vulnerable if it's cloaked?


The device uses strontium in addition to regular fuel block use.

With either runs out, it deactivates. So someone would have to interact with the POS sooner or later. The POS is decloaked when someone is interacting with it. Thus vulnerable. While interacting with it, someone finds it (and you).

It's also possible for someone to find it accidentally. Perhaps while finding a spot to set up their own.

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#14 - 2014-08-01 18:21:57 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Angeal MacNova wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
if you are cloaked you are invulnerable, why would you be allowed to do anything.


No you're not.



Tell us how, exactly, a POS is vulnerable if it's cloaked?

Nothing of value a POS can do exists as more than potential until a player is able to interact with it.
You can't sell whatever the POS is making till you move it from the POS.

By interacting with it, the POS is exposed to detection.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Shahai Shintaro
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2014-08-01 18:41:15 UTC
Umm... Let's say your pos is cloaked. I fly to the moon see nothing there and decide I want a pos there. I drop my stick and try to anchor it. What happens? Do i seriously have to grab an interceptor and fly loops around the planet till I happen to decloak you?
Angeal MacNova
Holefood Inc.
Warriors of the Blood God
#16 - 2014-08-01 18:46:21 UTC
No, you could scout the moon. Keep an eye on it and sooner or later you'll catch a player at the POS.

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#17 - 2014-08-01 18:49:01 UTC
Angeal MacNova wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Angeal MacNova wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
if you are cloaked you are invulnerable, why would you be allowed to do anything.


No you're not.



Tell us how, exactly, a POS is vulnerable if it's cloaked?


The device uses strontium in addition to regular fuel block use.

With either runs out, it deactivates. So someone would have to interact with the POS sooner or later. The POS is decloaked when someone is interacting with it. Thus vulnerable. While interacting with it, someone finds it (and you).

It's also possible for someone to find it accidentally. Perhaps while finding a spot to set up their own.



So unless I'm on, in system and with probes out, in the few minutes it takes you to fuel the thing and bug out, it's invulnerable and can happily research or react away in complete safety?


And you just confirmed that yes, Shahai would indeed have to fly loops around in an interceptor until she found your tower if it didn't happen to be in the few minutes a week/month that you were at the thing.
Angeal MacNova
Holefood Inc.
Warriors of the Blood God
#18 - 2014-08-01 19:10:15 UTC
It's easy enough to determine if one is anchored around a particular moon or not.

360 deg scan at a range that only covers the moon.

Probes ready to be launched with a scan preset already set up.

The moment it shows I could have it scanned down and be warping to it in seconds.


Perhaps a reactivation delay would help.

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#19 - 2014-08-01 19:13:40 UTC
While I love cloaking and I like POSes, I don't think it would fair to combine them with the current game mechanics - especially if you allow operation of ship modules and anchored modules while the POS is cloaked. It would be one of those banned from high sec modules.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2014-08-01 19:15:04 UTC
Angeal MacNova wrote:
It's easy enough to determine if one is anchored around a particular moon or not.

360 deg scan at a range that only covers the moon.

Probes ready to be launched with a scan preset already set up.

The moment it shows I could have it scanned down and be warping to it in seconds.


Perhaps a reactivation delay would help.



None of which mean a thing if whoever is looking for you is not in system at exactly the same time that you happen to be using the POS, paying attention and ready to probe you out.

Which is going to be a few minutes a week at most. So they're, essentially, going to have to figure out which moon you're set up on and decloak your tower the hard way unless they get INCREDIBLY lucky.

While you are free to generate a silly amount of money in a totally risk free manner.
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