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Four multispec's vs rainbow (ECM)
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PhatController
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-07-31 12:44:40 UTC
What's the pro's and con's of using four ECM multispecs vs one of each racial jam?

What would you put on a kitsune for small group PvP (1-3 targets)?
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#2 - 2014-07-31 13:38:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Bronson Hughes
Multispec Pros: equal chance of jamming with all jammers, don't have to worry about matching jammers to ship types.

Multispec Cons: shorter range, more cap, higher CPU usage, less chance of jamming than a correctly matched racial jammer.

Rainbow fit is popular for a reason. You've got room for 4x jammers and a prop mod on a Kitsune. You won't have much tank, but realistically you can't tank a Kitsune much anyways. Your best tank is range and speed, and those are maximized by using racial jammers. With good skills, you should be able to perma-run a MWD and 4 racial jammers, giving you a top speed of over 2km/s and an optimal range of over 60km.

Some people will say go three multispecs, prop mod, and shield mod, but they won't be nearly as effective at their primary role, which is jamming.

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God's Apples
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#3 - 2014-07-31 14:23:13 UTC
Let's say your target has 10 sensor strength. With correct racial jammer you have 9 jam strength and with multispec you have 6. You probability to jam with the one racial jammer is thus 90% and the multispec only 60%. With two multispecs on your target the probability of getting a jam is still only 84%. Only until you use 3 multispecs do you surpass the effectiveness of a racial.

If we try this again with the same strength jammers, but the target has 9 sensor strength you start to see why racials are preferred. 9/9 = 100%. The target is perma jammed with one jammer. However, with a multispec you only have a 66% chance at jamming per jammer. This means even if you spam all your jams on one target there is no way to ensure that he remains perma jammed.

Multispecs also have awful CPU usage and 14km less base optimal (~32% less range than racial).

"Hydra Reloaded are just jealous / butthurt on me / us because we can get tons of PVP action in empire while they aren't good enough to get that." - NightmareX
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#4 - 2014-07-31 14:34:56 UTC
IMO:
The #1 reason for Multis is, you don't know your enemies fleet comp. You can fit 4 different racials, but if the enemy shows up with 4 same race ships, you will only be able to jam 1 of them.

For a Falcon, I have always flown 2 Caldari ECM, 2 Minmatar ECM, and the rest Multies.
Never flew a Kitsune though, and I don't know how many slots it has offhand.
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
#5 - 2014-07-31 20:47:36 UTC
Multis can make a last ditch 'get out of jail' card for haulers, but aside from that i prefer racial if i am flying a combat vessel.
xPredat0rz
Project.Nova
The Initiative.
#6 - 2014-08-01 03:11:16 UTC
RavenPaine wrote:
IMO:
The #1 reason for Multis is, you don't know your enemies fleet comp. You can fit 4 different racials, but if the enemy shows up with 4 same race ships, you will only be able to jam 1 of them.

For a Falcon, I have always flown 2 Caldari ECM, 2 Minmatar ECM, and the rest Multies.
Never flew a Kitsune though, and I don't know how many slots it has offhand.



bring a mobile depot and scout who you are fighting. Then refit your jammers for the fight. You used to be able to get away with 1 Caldari 3 Minmatar and a gal and amarr jammer. Even using an off racial had a good chance to jam.

The 1 Caldari was for their Falcon Pilot.
The minmatars were for their dps/and or logi
the other 2 were wild cards just in case.

PhatController
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-08-01 13:02:52 UTC
Thanks for the replies, very helpful.
NIFTYGetAtMe
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2014-08-01 19:30:00 UTC
Rainbow for versatility dealing with enemy fleet comp while risking effectiveness
Multi for possible effectiveness vs. all targets while sacrificing jam strength.
Oh, and multi for Widows. (irrelevant).
PhatController
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2014-09-16 15:18:36 UTC
NIFTYGetAtMe wrote:
Rainbow for versatility dealing with enemy fleet comp while risking effectiveness
Multi for possible effectiveness vs. all targets while sacrificing jam strength.
Oh, and multi for Widows. (irrelevant).



Why multi's on a Widow?
Degnar Oskold
Moira.
#10 - 2014-09-16 15:46:10 UTC
I'm one of the minority who likes multispec. The shorter range and higher cap use makes them require careful management, though.

The one exception is that multispecs are terrible vs caldari ships because of their higher sensor strengths. Always fit one caldari jammer if you plan on packing multis.
Paranoid Loyd
#11 - 2014-09-16 16:38:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Aerie Evingod wrote:
Multis can make a last ditch 'get out of jail' card for haulers


This is a common misconception. Your sensor resolution is so low on a hauler you will be dead long before you have them locked and can activate the module. The exception may be a DST but there are better things to use your slots for on a DST.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
#12 - 2014-09-16 18:06:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Aerie Evingod
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Aerie Evingod wrote:
Multis can make a last ditch 'get out of jail' card for haulers


This is a common misconception. Your sensor resolution is so low on a hauler you will be dead long before you have them locked an can activate the module. The exception may be a DST but there are better things to use your slots for on a DST.


It's all a matter of what is catching you. If you end up in a 25 man gate camp, sure you are dead. Ship or two crosses your route and it can save you. I didn't say it was a guaranteed thing, which is why I did call it a last ditch effort.

Edit: auto correct spelling fixes
Paranoid Loyd
#13 - 2014-09-16 18:17:05 UTC
Aerie Evingod wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Aerie Evingod wrote:
Multis can make a last ditch 'get out of jail' card for haulers


This is a common misconception. Your sensor resolution is so low on a hauler you will be dead long before you have them locked an can activate the module. The exception may be a DST but there are better things to use your slots for on a DST.


It's all a matter of what is catching you. If you end up in a 25 man gate camp, sure you are dead. Ship or two crosses your route and it can save you. I didn't say it was a guaranteed thing, which is went ddid call it a lady ditch effort.


If you jam a gate camp and get away in a hauler, it means the incompetence of said gate camp let you get away not the jammer.

To each their own, I just don't recommend it, the slot is better used for tank.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
#14 - 2014-09-16 18:27:20 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Aerie Evingod wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Aerie Evingod wrote:
Multis can make a last ditch 'get out of jail' card for haulers


This is a common misconception. Your sensor resolution is so low on a hauler you will be dead long before you have them locked an can activate the module. The exception may be a DST but there are better things to use your slots for on a DST.


It's all a matter of what is catching you. If you end up in a 25 man gate camp, sure you are dead. Ship or two crosses your route and it can save you. I didn't say it was a guaranteed thing, which is went ddid call it a lady ditch effort.


If you jam a gate camp and get away in a hauler, it means the incompetence of said gate camp let you get away not the jammer.

To each their own, I just don't recommend it, the slot is better used for tank.


I'm not saying a massive gate camp. If you get caught by a couple roamers it can save you, most industrial ships are limited on powergrid, there are only so many LSE you can fit.
NIFTYGetAtMe
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#15 - 2014-09-16 18:50:41 UTC
PhatController wrote:
NIFTYGetAtMe wrote:
Rainbow for versatility dealing with enemy fleet comp while risking effectiveness
Multi for possible effectiveness vs. all targets while sacrificing jam strength.
Oh, and multi for Widows. (irrelevant).



Why multi's on a Widow?

30% per Black Ops level ECM strength bonus
Room for 2 Large Augmentor rigs
Room for 2 SDAs
Hull justifies use of faction ECM

With maxed jamming skills and BLOPs 5 you get 10 jam strength across all sensor types with Legion Multispecs and a possibility to fit 5 or 6 of them.

You don't really have to worry about guessing which jams to bring when you're sitting at 10 strength across the board.

None of that really applies to the kitsune though.
Paranoid Loyd
#16 - 2014-09-16 20:20:56 UTC
Aerie Evingod wrote:
I'm not saying a massive gate camp.


Neither am I, numbers help, but they don't really matter in this situation.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Alaric Faelen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2014-09-16 21:09:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Alaric Faelen
I tend to run rainbows unless I have a clue as to enemy logi preferences. Then I run stack racials to jam out logi.
Most of the time, shield fleets run Scimitars- the Basi is fairly unpopular. Armor fleets tend to run Guardians over Oneiros (YMMV).

I fly in large null sec fleets, so trying to jam DPS ships is fairly pointless- there is usually dozens of them. Logi is the better bang for your jamming buck. I never use mutli's.
I would just run a damp ship rather than multi ECM.
Pookoko
Sigma Sagittarii Inc.
#18 - 2014-09-17 08:02:24 UTC
Word of warning for haulers fitting ECM though. Attempting to jam a ganker will start a limited engagement timer. When you jump back to high sec in your pod, don't hang around the gate in your pod flashing light blue to the ganker.
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2014-09-17 23:04:13 UTC
Speaking of ECM, i knew a pvper who had a Falcon alt with Caldari jammers just to counter enemy Falcons when he went out for some solo pvp