Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I'm not sure why "overpowered in frigate duels" qualifies as broken. That ship existed before the patch, its called a sentinel and you don't beat it with any frig either.

Worm can do this ... yeah even something that was known as unbeatable stuff actually is now ... countered. Guess by what.

Thats because Ishtar is obnoxiously overpowered too and should be attended with nerfs asap.

You get capped out and they warp off, you're not going to kill them.

The last bit about the dd is perhaps where I would disagree. I tend to think the other pirate faction ships are too weak. I wouldn't mind if the worm was the bar that pirate ships are too meet. I don't think the dd should be nerfed. It is weaker than many afs that cost less than half and destroyers are about equal to it despite being 1/10 the price to fly.


I think maybe the pirate ships should meet somewhere between the worm and the dd or the others should be brought up to the worm. What I don't understand is why the worm is singled out in the pirate ship line up to be so much more powerful than the rest.

E.g., Give the succubus more agility and more power grid and maybe even another high turret slot. That would put it in line with the worm.

Point range on the ceptors is 30+ km, Neut range is 27. Kestrels shoot you with Light missiles while ceptors hold you, same for Tristans with drones. Ishkurs have cap boosters to keep scram running and kill you with drones.

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Depending of the Worms fit I suppose would be a better way to put it. But again, the Worm isn't the be all end all. The 350 dps need Augmented Drones, otherwise you get around 300, the 10k buffer tank is tech 2 but it other assault frigates can also run up to that.

The Worm can do a huge amount of DPS with a good tank, but it is slow, a fast micro fitted ship can out run it's drones. The Worm from what I've seen is limited to a AB.

The worm can be counted by a Crow, or a Slicer. Just as long as pilot can kite properly.

I personally would say if the ships need a nerf, it would be a slight one, maybe keeping the DPS the same, but changing the drone HP bonus? Or limiting the fitting so that only a scram could be fitted rather than the point?




Since when is a shield tanked ship, capless? Weapons and drones are capless yeah cool, but as soon as your loss your resists, you're 60k tanks suddenly become 18k.

Warriors with good skills are pretty fast, unless you Crow is boosted it would have a hard time out running them.

A garmur will kill one, but I'm not sure what that proves because they're utterly stupid too.

The Worm is actually faster than most Tech 1 / Pirate / Navy Frigates, and the ones that have the Damage to beat also don't have the Tank to deal with it...

If you take for example the Slicer, a general kite fit can deal 165 Therm / EM DPS... which sure on most Caldari-based (Shield) ships that would be devastating but as it's possible to have a pure passive 12k EHP (without Links, with it's like 18k) that provides Omni-Resists of 70%+ - the reality is 165 DPS Vs. 300 DPS (340 with 'Aug' Hobs) that due to the Drone buff will be able to hit 4.2k m/s ... but that said usually you'd use Hornets / Warrior against a Slicer, which will break 6k / 8k m/s which means Snakes and OH are the only way to out-run them.

Put bluntly, your MWD will burn out long before you break the Worm; where it will absolutely own a Slicer without speed.
Still there is always the Missiles, as it's now possible to Tank, Drone Damage and LML with a MWD (only requires 2 cheap implants CA-1 & CA-2) literally anything you throw at it will die Solo.

The Gila is the same way, sure you can say "Well a Shield Tank getting hit by Neuts and it's tank disappears" but the reality is you can buffer it like the Drake or simply go Resist Rigs and use Dual-ASB for massive burst Tank and a reasonable Passive.

Don't get me wrong stupid Fits will always die; and yes the Worm DID need more Damage Capabilities; as 150 was absolutely pathetic regardless of it's Tank - but the Gila was actually in a good place, just like the Rattlesnake was (and still is)

If you look at every other Pirate Frigate and Cruiser, they all have an Achilles Heel; but the Worm currently just doesn't; especially when you consider they are either there as Force Multipliers or are capable of hunting in Novice Complex in Low-Sec without equal; as they will either force ships like Garmurs (that are universally seen as OP because of their Speed, Point and Volley) off the field, or destroy them.

When you get them in groups of 2+ usually with a Fast Tackle (like a Garmur) which is becoming more and more commonplace, there is literally no counter to that; absolutely NONE. In-fact together they will put down close to 800 DPS combined applicable at up to 40km away, with actually incredibly good speed; especially when Linked.

I mean the MWD Worm with Links (no implant) will happily go 3.2k m/s, plus the Shield Resist Link you're looking at giving it an extra 5-6k EHP; making it absolutely devastating.

While you can say "Well they are 100mil to buy atm, then another 40-50mil to fit without Augs; so their Price for what they do is good" the only reason they are so much is because they're considerably better than every other Pirate Frigate; and realistically there is no reason for any of the Pirate Frigates to be as much as they are.

Realistically you can get each of them from their respective LP Store and sell them for 20-30mil (like Navy Frigates) and they'd still be worthwhile; the only reason their prices stay as high as they do are because of Supply and Demand because generally the main method of acquisition is Anoms - but basing balance against a completely arbitrary price is NOT how you balance.

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Personally I think the Worm and Gila need a 250% and 350% Bonus respectively for Drone Damage and Durability

Now you can argue "but the Ishtar and other Drones boats are over-powered too" ... and I agree there /are/ certain Drone boats that do actually take the **** in terms of the DPS they can apply.

The Tristan, Comet, Algos, Vexor, Vexor Navy Issue and Ishtar; are frankly completely out of balance since the Drone 'Rebalance' and do need to be carefully addressed.

Honestly for the Tristan and Comet, I'd say reduce the Drone by to only hold a Single Wing; the Algos should have a single Wing of Scouts with a small gun Damage Bonus, the Vexor, VNI and Ishtar need to have their Drone Damage reduced by approx. 15%

That would bring things far more in-line.