Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Isn't this something that will be coming with the next module meta changes ?

And besides that, I think your exapmles (%) are a bit off, you start blending the two systems for each size, I would not want this.

Have to admit that I like heavy missiles, especially when paired with drones. They give a moderately skilled player an engagement range of 50 km with 100% accuracy and decent application with the right mix of modules, rigs and skills. Cruise missiles paired with sentry drones again permit a moderately skilled player to engage at 100 km with excellent accuracy and damage application. The main downside is flight delay, which doesn't matter much for PVE, and a lack of platforms with bonuses for both. Right now, you're looking at the Gila and Rattlesnake - both exceptional ships, but it would be nice to have basic T1 options. Perhaps the Cyclone/Typhoon with a drone bonus or the Prophecy/Armageddon with a missile bonus!

Actually now you mention it, precision missiles could use some work.

It'd also be nice to see the Mordu missile speed/range bonus partly applied to all missiles, it's depressing watching missiles not hit a target 25km away because you're both burning very fast and they can't cover the gap with the speed difference in the flight time.

I wouldn't say HAM's are in a good place... Actually no medium weapons are in a good place because they can do the same dps as large weaponry with the correct skills and equipment, except Heavy Missiles, which are downright useless at the moment.

Bullet Therapist has good ideas, for the most part I agree, and I would like to add replacing missile velocity with missile acceleration in such a way that short range flight times are roughly similar but using cruise missiles at their maximum range would actually be partially viable. As it stands cruise missiles can easily range over 220km, but would take over 20seconds to cross that gap which makes the idea of engaging at 200km laughable at best. Replace their maximum velocity with a flat acceleration number and maybe they could cross that gap in 7-10 seconds. Javelins have higher acceleration than stock and Furies have lower, thus keeping the range consistent and reinforcing their particular roles.
Further, you could tie the damage to the velocity at impact, meaning that cruise missiles would apply more damage at 75km than at 5km. Torpedoes, the bigger and slower missile, would be less vulnerable to this because of their shorter engagement range and heavier payload.
In a sci-fi universe where artillery shells cover 150km at the same speed as lasers, why do missiles have a maximum velocity?

What's wrong with a full revamp? They've redone drones already, and since projectiles and hybrids are both light speed weapons they haven't needed to make changes there. Actually, I suspect that the switch could be make relatively easily within the code since you would be swapping formulas and values, as these things go I think that might be one of the easier changes to make. (Compared to balancing ships and whatnot)
I don't think missiles should have to get to max range to do full damage, it would need to be different for each particular type because this would basically establish a de facto optimal range for missiles. So, hypothetically and using completely made up numbers, rockets would do max damage at 9km on a Corax whereas lights would do max damage at 25km.
The missile velocity bonus on the Raven could be kept, somewhat, and implemented as a higher base velocity which means that missiles from a Raven would get to a given range faster than missiles from a Typhoon, but the Typhoon missiles do higher damage when they get there.
So you like the acceleration idea but you don't think cruise missiles should get to max range any faster because their name implies that they're taking the scenic and stopping at every mile marker for a photo op?

Full acceleration isn't a thing that I am aware of, the acceleration would be constant and the velocity would be changing constantly. If the acceleration were 50m/s, it would be constant from launch until impact, only the velocity would change.

20 second flight time for near-max range cruise missiles, even from a Raven, shoehorns that engagement tactic to PvE and structure bashing, it would be laughable at PvP and I see no reason why the change couldn't be made in such a way as make 200km cruise missiles viable. They shouldn't be instant, but 3 salvoes in flight at one time is a little ridiculous, especially if all 3 are wasted because the rest of the fleet kills the target. 7-10 seconds would still keep missile pilots being proactive and trying to predict the future while allowing them to contribute more to a fleet fight. Besides, at that range there has to be a separate group to tackle, web, paint, and brawl so this would add content in the sense that you could drop reinforcements on the snipers while all their support is 150-200km away. Who wouldn't want to do that?

Acceleration is part of the suggestion, but acceleration doesn't change. Or shouldn't at least since the missile just turns on it's engine and goes, it doesn't have gears or anything it just has a constant acceleration.
So you're saying they burn out and go ballistic, saving very little fuel for maneuvering? That would be more in keeping with how they behave now actually, and maybe that is the logic behind it. Interesting.....
My thinking is that Eve has quantum computers, so the missile could keep accelerating and the computer would be able to keep up with the navigation and detonation. Anti-Aircraft missiles in a real-world arsenal don't detonate on impact, they detonate slightly before impact and shower the aircraft with shrapnel, heat and blast wave. I think that is why there is an explosion velocity and radius as part of missile mechanics in Eve, they detonate off the target and catch it in the blast wave instead of actually impacting. (Probably the shield causes them to detonate away from the ship, would love to see shield visuals...) This doesn't explain how you could do kinetic damage with an explosion, but that's nit picking just a bit.
So why tie damage to the end velocity? Because the blast wave and shrapnel would start with a higher base velocity before detonation so when they hit the target they are going faster, they will have higher kinetic energy and higher kinetic energy translates to higher damage.
I actually kinda like your idea of coasting and then a final burn to position for impact but as long as every other weapon type is insta-damage (light speed artillery shells and all), I think that a mechanic of that nature is too biased. It's basically an explanation for the current mechanic, and a really cool one, but light speed artillery negates the cool/realism factor for me. If anything, projectiles and hybrids should be the ones with a velocity that translates into a short flight time. So instead of 1400s doing insta-damage at 150km+, they would take a few seconds to get there. Or the numbers could be tweaked so that, at 220km+, cruise missiles impact just before artillery but still without the ridiculous alpha, that would be really cool. They would still be faster than cruise missiles but more realistic. In that case I would be more willing to accept your coasting mechanic, but while missiles are the only delayed damage (not counting drones because I don't like drones) I think it is biased.


Also, bear with me while I drink some coffee...

Yes, I think we are on a similar page. And I also agree that I'm trying to fit Eve mechanics with real-life logic and how silly that can be, but it's the best way to make analogies on forums for people who don't understand what I'm trying to say as well as you seem to. Plus it helps me think.
I can understand having a max velocity and an acceleration such that missiles act different than currently but not completely the way I'm proposing, and I do think that that would be more realistic but I would also like to see missile sniping being competitive with instant damage artillery. Currently there is no good reason to use cruise missiles at that range outside of pos gun bashing for people that don't have an Ishtar, if larger missiles are going to be pushed towards pos bashing like that it would be nice if they would just come out and say it. Back on topic, if cruise missiles were able to continuously accelerate, maybe cruise missiles are the only ones that behave this way and the rest use your idea, then they would be competitive with arty and railguns while not overly disturbing things.

When it comes to distance and space combat, I think nothing beats David Weber's Honor Harrington but they engage at ranges in the millions of kilometers and their missiles use your idea. Taking minutes to cross the gap and then maneuvering wildly to do damage. As for projectiles, yes you can get them going really fast which is why I don't have a problem with insta-damage on blasters and AC's, but there is a limit to how fast you can reasonably make something go even in space and light speed is usually recognized as taking a whole hell of a lot of energy.

No Irish in the coffee, I'm just all over the place today. Usually I do a better job with my forum posts...

I support this idea and would love it if a dev would drop in and hint at a Soon™ upcoming rebalance. It is pretty silly that target sitting still would not take the full dps of a missile.