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Crius Issues

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Qinby
ImNo6
#921 - 2014-07-29 15:25:24 UTC
Retar Aveymone wrote:
I have still gotten no response to my petition over our t2 component team mysteriously changing (along with every other team hired at the time): is this being looked into at all?



We won auction on 2 teams regarding Construction Components (one ME and one TE).
a day later they where Outpost Components....

Thought ive gone nuts... but then search for Teams to bid on for Construction Components and at that time there were no teams at all in the game (but loads of Outpost Components..)

Think somebody "pressed the wrong button... "

Good to know we are not alone with this issue (no response on our petition as of today).

Hang in there...

Rgds
Veinnail
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#922 - 2014-07-29 16:29:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Veinnail
Dareth Astrar wrote:
Veinnail wrote:
Your cost index is too steep.

also, it is a great intel tool for finding where supercapitals are being built. thanks for eliminating the need to scout.


I have to admit Veinnail, one I hadn't even considered. That's a very good point, yet another intel disclosing item which hasn't required your enemies to do any form of in-game investigation.

I had thought when I mentioned they would have to give out more information via API to accommodate for their change in calculations it was going to be cause for concern on the load applied to the API servers, but this one related to Cost-Index adjustments and increases is an obvious major intel disclosure issue. Now it's out there, I doubt they'll be able to take it back.

Obviously moving that kind of production constantly isn't possible, ohh dear this is a rather major game play issue affected.



yes this is a huge oversight. The index needs a threshold, a system should be able to sustain a certain number of process hours before the index spikes. A single supercapital producer (lets say 100-150 slots full time) should not make a visible hotspot on the map.

edit, I still think there should be a system or constellation computation BEFORE trending vs the rest of the universe. But that was what they abandoned when they dumped the idea of stacking modules in pos to reduce cost. Yes I agree that stacking the modules was silly, but there had to be another way to allow users to appreciate a benefit of using control tower in the first place (speaking mostly in terms of manufacturing here)
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#923 - 2014-07-29 16:36:06 UTC
it was utterly trivial pre-crius to find CSAAs and check their build status so supercap manufacturers should be happy, not begging for another handout
Veinnail
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#924 - 2014-07-29 16:42:47 UTC
After today's patch my UI will not allow me to enter more than one invention job without having to close the UI once or twice to get it to use the next bpc.

if this is noted already, disregard.
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#925 - 2014-07-29 16:51:06 UTC
Veinnail wrote:
Dareth Astrar wrote:
Veinnail wrote:
Your cost index is too steep.

also, it is a great intel tool for finding where supercapitals are being built. thanks for eliminating the need to scout.


I have to admit Veinnail, one I hadn't even considered. That's a very good point, yet another intel disclosing item which hasn't required your enemies to do any form of in-game investigation.

I had thought when I mentioned they would have to give out more information via API to accommodate for their change in calculations it was going to be cause for concern on the load applied to the API servers, but this one related to Cost-Index adjustments and increases is an obvious major intel disclosure issue. Now it's out there, I doubt they'll be able to take it back.

Obviously moving that kind of production constantly isn't possible, ohh dear this is a rather major game play issue affected.



yes this is a huge oversight. The index needs a threshold, a system should be able to sustain a certain number of process hours before the index spikes. A single supercapital producer (lets say 100-150 slots full time) should not make a visible hotspot on the map.

edit, I still think there should be a system or constellation computation BEFORE trending vs the rest of the universe. But that was what they abandoned when they dumped the idea of stacking modules in pos to reduce cost. Yes I agree that stacking the modules was silly, but there had to be another way to allow users to appreciate a benefit of using control tower in the first place (speaking mostly in terms of manufacturing here)


There is a threshold, we floor the index at something like 0.1% iirc.

In any event, if there's a legitimate problem the data's all out there so it should be pretty easy to demonstrate. Show us a concrete example of using this to pick out supercap build sites and we'll look at it and see if we find it problematic Smile
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#926 - 2014-07-29 16:53:12 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:

There is a threshold, we floor the index at something like 0.1% iirc.

In any event, if there's a legitimate problem the data's all out there so it should be pretty easy to demonstrate. Show us a concrete example of using this to pick out supercap build sites and we'll look at it and see if we find it problematic Smile

Like I said this is not a problem: prepatch to see every single CSAA in, say, northern associates space all I had to do was put an alt with no roles in the alliance and start poking through the S&I tab. I don't think anyone has bothered to manually scout a CSAA build system in years.
CCP Tuxford
C C P
C C P Alliance
#927 - 2014-07-29 17:13:18 UTC
Retar Aveymone wrote:
I have still gotten no response to my petition over our t2 component team mysteriously changing (along with every other team hired at the time): is this being looked into at all?


I'm looking into this.

https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/CCP%20Tuxford/StatusUpdates
Veinnail
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#928 - 2014-07-29 17:23:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Veinnail
Retar Aveymone wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:

There is a threshold, we floor the index at something like 0.1% iirc.

In any event, if there's a legitimate problem the data's all out there so it should be pretty easy to demonstrate. Show us a concrete example of using this to pick out supercap build sites and we'll look at it and see if we find it problematic Smile

Like I said this is not a problem: prepatch to see every single CSAA in, say, northern associates space all I had to do was put an alt with no roles in the alliance and start poking through the S&I tab. I don't think anyone has bothered to manually scout a CSAA build system in years.


thats nice, but what we're talking about are leading indicators visible with map functions. the meta of spy tactics is not turn for this discussion.

edit: CCP, why don't you take a look yourself, or just dismiss it and move on.
Emrys Ap'Morgravaine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#929 - 2014-07-29 18:51:24 UTC
Emrys Ap'Morgravaine wrote:
So after being told repeatedly both in 1 to 1 questions, and publicly during the panel at fanfest, that BPO's which were perfect before hand would be perfect afterwards. Primarily in this case Capital BPO's with their awful rounding faults.

It turns out that this was what, a lie? Or just regular incompetence?

All my hull BPO's now have calculable wastage which with the "new and improved math" is going to take 2/3rds of a year and about 1.5Bil ISK per BPO to fix.

Can I get a CCP comment?


Still no comment CCP.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#930 - 2014-07-29 19:17:58 UTC
CCP RubberBAND wrote:
need to make sure the fix is indeed a fix and corrects this issue for all players affected.

You should have done that the first time.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#931 - 2014-07-29 20:17:24 UTC
CCP Tuxford wrote:
Retar Aveymone wrote:
I have still gotten no response to my petition over our t2 component team mysteriously changing (along with every other team hired at the time): is this being looked into at all?


I'm looking into this.

Thanks!
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#932 - 2014-07-29 20:51:18 UTC
I hope everyone has their resumes up to date.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Edlorna Tinebe
The Elerium Trust
#933 - 2014-07-29 21:17:31 UTC
I confess that I never had reason to copy a component BPO before, so I don't know what the mechanics were pre-Crius. Now, however, I'm finding that (as an example) EM Pulse Generators require 20 Reports as a material input for copying. I vaguely remember something like that before. But I noted that it's 20 Reports per BPC, no matter how many runs are on each copy. So a single BPC with 4,000 runs on it takes 2 days to copy, and 20 reports. To make 4,000 BPC copies with one run each takes two days and 80,000 Reports.

It's not a huge problem. Reports are dirt-cheap, and you can just make long-run copies. But it still strikes me as being odd. Is this the old behavior? Is this the intended new behavior?
Decarthado Aurgnet
Imperial Combat Engineers
#934 - 2014-07-29 22:35:29 UTC
Edlorna Tinebe wrote:
I confess that I never had reason to copy a component BPO before, so I don't know what the mechanics were pre-Crius. Now, however, I'm finding that (as an example) EM Pulse Generators require 20 Reports as a material input for copying. I vaguely remember something like that before. But I noted that it's 20 Reports per BPC, no matter how many runs are on each copy. So a single BPC with 4,000 runs on it takes 2 days to copy, and 20 reports. To make 4,000 BPC copies with one run each takes two days and 80,000 Reports.

It's not a huge problem. Reports are dirt-cheap, and you can just make long-run copies. But it still strikes me as being odd. Is this the old behavior? Is this the intended new behavior?

imo, old behavior bleeding into new system. I agree it's a mild annoyance, but could be confusing for newbies to industry & could do with a rewrite to cost x reports for y runs when there's spare time to look into patching things like that.

Remove T2 BPO's or make them inventable at extreme cost.
MtyRoyal
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
OnlyFleets.
#935 - 2014-07-30 01:09:05 UTC
Hi,

My standings with Ministry of War are 6.70 (with connections IV, 7.23). I still see a 1% decline in effeciency reduction for station owner tax when I mouse over the ore imput (e.g. Veldspar) in the reporcessing plant window (Nafrivik VIII Moon 6) but 0 station tax when hovering over the mineral output (Tritanium). Is this behaving as intended?


5,938,500 Veldspar (1.15, 1.10, 1.08 % -1) my yield is 16,834,279

I got the beancounter 804 hardwire and I am training it - and I need to train the last level in Veldspar Processing

Thanks!

Mty
AngelShocker Cupcakes
CareBears Gone Dark
#936 - 2014-07-30 01:43:55 UTC
MtyRoyal wrote:
Hi,

My standings with Ministry of War are 6.70 (with connections IV, 7.23). I still see a 1% decline in effeciency reduction for station owner tax when I mouse over the ore imput (e.g. Veldspar) in the reporcessing plant window (Nafrivik VIII Moon 6) but 0 station tax when hovering over the mineral output (Tritanium). Is this behaving as intended?


5,938,500 Veldspar (1.15, 1.10, 1.08 % -1) my yield is 16,834,279

I got the beancounter 804 hardwire and I am training it - and I need to train the last level in Veldspar Processing

Thanks!

Mty



Anything times 1 stays the same. So you are reprocessing at the max your skills will allow right now.
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#937 - 2014-07-30 03:04:59 UTC
CCP RubberBAND wrote:

The best thing you can do ... snip



What customers are wondering is what "the best thing CCP can do" is. I was surprised there weren't patches out over the weekend, but there really doesn't appear to be a lot of urgency on CCP's part. Customers have industry screwed up a week now. When my company messes up like this we burn the oil to get things right quickly.
CCP Paradox
#938 - 2014-07-30 10:54:16 UTC
Qinby wrote:
Retar Aveymone wrote:
I have still gotten no response to my petition over our t2 component team mysteriously changing (along with every other team hired at the time): is this being looked into at all?



We won auction on 2 teams regarding Construction Components (one ME and one TE).
a day later they where Outpost Components....

Thought ive gone nuts... but then search for Teams to bid on for Construction Components and at that time there were no teams at all in the game (but loads of Outpost Components..)

Think somebody "pressed the wrong button... "

Good to know we are not alone with this issue (no response on our petition as of today).

Hang in there...

Rgds


We found the issue, and it was related to the change we did to accommodate for the Orca so that it could be classified correctly as the Industrial Command Ship.

We had a look into what solutions we could do, and in the investigation saw that the number of people who bid money to Construction Component teams and won was really, really small as this only affected those before the 24th July. As such we have instructed our GM's to reimburse those who paid specifically for Construction Component teams that were later changed by us by mistake.

Please file a Support Ticket with any characters who had paid money to the winning bid/relocation of the team and you will be reimbursed.

There will be no further changes to any existing specialty and we apologize for the inconvenience caused.

CCP Paradox | EVE QA | Team Phenomenon

Space Magician
Angie Chatter
#939 - 2014-07-30 11:35:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Angie Chatter
I still don't see a "erratic sorting behaviour" point for the BP indy window listed under the issue list?

Do i really have to make a video or maybe a CCP dev can simply install 50x production jobs using exactly similar BP. This also works with RE jobs, just try setup 50+ RE jobs using the same artifact type.

The lag after each "start" is also annoying, basically u have to wait 3-5 seconds before u can "cleanly" start a new job.
Basil Vulpine
Blueprint Haus
Blades of Grass
#940 - 2014-07-30 11:55:08 UTC
CCP Paradox wrote:

We found the issue, and it was related to the change we did to accommodate for the Orca so that it could be classified correctly as the Industrial Command Ship.

We had a look into what solutions we could do, and in the investigation saw that the number of people who bid money to Construction Component teams and won was really, really small as this only affected those before the 24th July. As such we have instructed our GM's to reimburse those who paid specifically for Construction Component teams that were later changed by us by mistake.

Please file a Support Ticket with any characters who had paid money to the winning bid/relocation of the team and you will be reimbursed.

There will be no further changes to any existing specialty and we apologize for the inconvenience caused.



Can you please confirm that any new construction component team will not morph in to something different?
Checking in game with a filter of "World" / "Component" / "Manufacturing" and text filter of "construction comp"

There are teams visible in the chartering section to bid on.
There are NO teams visible currently active in all of Eve. Same filter settings, just flipping between the different parts of team chartering.

Either everybody who is bidding on teams has heard that construction component teams were broken and isn't bidding on any team that contains them or they are still morphing their speciality.