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[Hyperion] Heavy Assault Cruiser tweaks

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colera deldios
#41 - 2014-07-29 14:31:44 UTC
A 10 ms and 2.5% bonus reduction to drones won't really do anything that impressive. Like most people pointed that will still be more than enough to hit for about the same DPS as they do now.

If you wan't to do a proper nerf that will keep Ishtar viable but bring it down to be somewhat inline with then simply remove 1 low slot or do a reduction in power grid so that you cannot fit 2x 1600 II Plate + resist mods. You get unreasonable raw HP in armor combined with high resists of HAC and then you also get extra low slots to fit in a DCU + active hardners to plug in pretty much every dps hole.

- 1 Low slot
- 5% Power Grid
Arkon Olacar
black.listed
#42 - 2014-07-29 14:33:19 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:

Ishtar:
Bonus to drone tracking and optimal range from 7.5% per level -> 5% per level
Max Velocity from 195 -> 185

We expect that some of you will feel this is far too gentle on the Ishtar, and we understand that (it's what we heard from the CSM as well), but we get releases very often now and we're happy to be conservative here, rather than nuke it out of the game, and just make more changes if they're needed in the following release.


You've tickled the ishtar when you should be taking a hammer to the damn thing.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2014-07-29 14:33:29 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
i expected the ishtar change ... will the domi change aswell then?

Eagle
- i did say in the HAC page it was far too slow .. would be nice at 200 along with some drones .. it has a dronebay now on the model and would allow for blaster variants then instead of only rails ...

Vagabond
- please nerf its speed ... resilience is the theme of HACS remember so why is it just as quick as a stabber and cynabal???



You nuts? The vagabond is already MUCH slower than it used to be. It was suposed to be the fastest cruiser in game. Hacs are about SPECIALIZATION. It SHOUdl be as quick as the stabber because it is an ENHANCED STTABBER!!!

Vagabonds are already barely used on mobility based warfare. On other hand you want the caldari sniper to go faster?

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Guth'Alak
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2014-07-29 14:34:23 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:

Ishtar:
Bonus to drone tracking and optimal range from 7.5% per level -> 5% per level
Max Velocity from 195 -> 185


Of course you had to nerf them 1 week after i trained into them! Cry
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2014-07-29 14:35:24 UTC
Vlad Vladimir Vladinovsky wrote:

Yea you're right, just looking at pyfa shows the artillery trades some optimal range for fall off and the rails have more optimal but less fall off, leading to about the same overall range



Nope. rails ahve far more effective range. 100km range and 20 falloff is SEVERAL times better than 20 range and 100 falloff.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#46 - 2014-07-29 14:35:44 UTC
Guth'Alak wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:

Ishtar:
Bonus to drone tracking and optimal range from 7.5% per level -> 5% per level
Max Velocity from 195 -> 185


Of course you had to nerf them 1 week after i trained into them! Cry


a tiny nerf like this confirms that there won't be a real nerf for a long time or possibly ever.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#47 - 2014-07-29 14:36:32 UTC
A question -- have you considered simply removing sentry drones from the list of drones to which the Ishtar confers a bonus? With the drone skill revamp done recently, it ought to be fairly straightforward from a technical perspective (unless, of course, I'm missing something.) Sentries are largely what make the Ishtar so strong, and it's not like the sentry drone would fall completely out of favor after being excised from the Ishtar. Doing this would provide a reason to fly a Dominix again.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#48 - 2014-07-29 14:36:42 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
The tempest main problem is, a battleship that devote BOTH bonuses to damage and yet is the among lowest damage of all on realistic fits.

Only 6 lows is not enough for a competitive tank AND competitive damage mod number.


It does need 7 low slots. OR one of its damage mods changed. Something like 5% rof and 7.5% Damage per level . That way the battleship with 2 damage mods would STILL not be among the highest damage ones, but would not be on the bottom as well.


7-5-7 ......6 turrets feel free to remove some launchers
7.5% ROF
7.5% damage

maybe switch its mass with phoon and then buff its speed and agility

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#49 - 2014-07-29 14:36:58 UTC
Ishtar role bonus: 20% reduction in bandwidth for heavy drones
Ishtar bandwidth reduced from 125 to 100
Vlad Vladimir Vladinovsky
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2014-07-29 14:38:09 UTC
Querns wrote:
A question -- have you considered simply removing sentry drones from the list of drones to which the Ishtar confers a bonus? With the drone skill revamp done recently, it ought to be fairly straightforward from a technical perspective (unless, of course, I'm missing something.) Sentries are largely what make the Ishtar so strong, and it's not like the sentry drone would fall completely out of favor after being excised from the Ishtar. Doing this would provide a reason to fly a Dominix again.

I think it would be no different than any other drone boat for that matter, why bring an ishtar without sentries when you can just field 2 VNI's for the same price seeing as the VNI is the closest drone boat competitor to the ishtar
Diivil
Magellanic Itg
Goonswarm Federation
#51 - 2014-07-29 14:38:19 UTC
Not big enough nerf to stop everyone from flying Ishtars so essentially nothing changes. Take a drone away from them or do something else that actually matters.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2014-07-29 14:38:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Regarding the Ishtar, sentry drones are the problem, not the ship. Increase the signature radius or completely change their mechanics by having them stay within 5km of the ship and not be an independent stationary turret, which is unbalanced when compared to how every other weapon system works!

What's going to happen when this change makes no difference whatsoever? Are you going to remove the tracking speed bonus completely?

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2014-07-29 14:42:58 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
The tempest main problem is, a battleship that devote BOTH bonuses to damage and yet is the among lowest damage of all on realistic fits.

Only 6 lows is not enough for a competitive tank AND competitive damage mod number.


It does need 7 low slots. OR one of its damage mods changed. Something like 5% rof and 7.5% Damage per level . That way the battleship with 2 damage mods would STILL not be among the highest damage ones, but would not be on the bottom as well.


7-5-7 ......6 turrets feel free to remove some launchers
7.5% ROF
7.5% damage

maybe switch its mass with phoon and then buff its speed and agility


7.5% ROF is TOO powerful. It increases much faster than damage.

7-5-7 5% rof 7.5% damage would be my GOLDEN attack bs. Youc an even reduce the drone bandwidth to 25... It woudl be a mobile ship focused on GUNS. I

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#54 - 2014-07-29 14:43:19 UTC
Please do not nerf the tempest in this way. Its versatility is very good with 5 mid slots and 6 low slots means I can throw on everything I need without even the eighth slot. If you give it an eighth low it's just going to be a brick typhoon with guns.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#55 - 2014-07-29 14:43:41 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Greygal wrote:
Is there a timetable for the Ishtar and other HAC changes to go live? I.e., will these changes be going live before, during, or after the Alliance Tournament?

Thanks!

GG


Hyperion's release date is September 23, 2014, so after the AT.


thats the oceanus release date ... august 26th is Hyperion

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/ccp-seagull-becomes-executive-producer-for-eve-online/

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Fredric Wolf
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#56 - 2014-07-29 14:43:56 UTC
The discussion I am having in a chat channel suggest that tweaking the Sentries is not enough of a change.

The proposal they are putting forward is this

Ishtar to have the sentry bonus removed entirely and replaced with a bonus to medium drone tracking and speed.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2014-07-29 14:44:21 UTC
NEONOVUS wrote:
Ishtar role bonus: 20% reduction in bandwidth for heavy drones
Ishtar bandwidth reduced from 125 to 100



then what you do with the other 2 bonuses? Incomplete solutions are not helpfull. Ishtar already uses only 2 of its bonuses at same time.

The problem of the ishtar if no one can see is too many mids. Make shield tanking ishtars with 3 damage mods too easy.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#58 - 2014-07-29 14:44:36 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Regarding the Ishtar, sentry drones are the problem, not the ship. Increase the signature radius or completely change their mechanics by having them stay within 5km of the ship and not be an independent stationary turret, which is unbalanced when compared to how every other weapon system works!

What's going to happen when this change makes no difference whatsoever? Are you going to remove the tracking speed bonus completely?


they need to distinguish between different ishtar fits. brawly armour ones are not broken or OP or ever used, and yet they are getting a speed nerf because of the abusive kitey ones.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#59 - 2014-07-29 14:44:42 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
The tempest main problem is, a battleship that devote BOTH bonuses to damage and yet is the among lowest damage of all on realistic fits.

Only 6 lows is not enough for a competitive tank AND competitive damage mod number.


It does need 7 low slots. OR one of its damage mods changed. Something like 5% rof and 7.5% Damage per level . That way the battleship with 2 damage mods would STILL not be among the highest damage ones, but would not be on the bottom as well.


7-5-7 ......6 turrets feel free to remove some launchers
7.5% ROF
7.5% damage

maybe switch its mass with phoon and then buff its speed and agility


7.5% ROF is TOO powerful. It increases much faster than damage.

7-5-7 5% rof 7.5% damage would be my GOLDEN attack bs. Youc an even reduce the drone bandwidth to 25... It woudl be a mobile ship focused on GUNS. I


well 50mb ... medium drones offer better damage application than heavies anyway

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#60 - 2014-07-29 14:45:03 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
The tempest main problem is, a battleship that devote BOTH bonuses to damage and yet is the among lowest damage of all on realistic fits.

Only 6 lows is not enough for a competitive tank AND competitive damage mod number.


It does need 7 low slots. OR one of its damage mods changed. Something like 5% rof and 7.5% Damage per level . That way the battleship with 2 damage mods would STILL not be among the highest damage ones, but would not be on the bottom as well.


7-5-7 ......6 turrets feel free to remove some launchers
7.5% ROF
7.5% damage

maybe switch its mass with phoon and then buff its speed and agility


Go 8 guns, drop RoF for tracking speed. I'm fine either with them keeping the current slot setup on that or going with 4 mids and 7 lows, because it sets it up better as a proper attack battleship. It currently doesn't get any damage projection or application bonuses, and is the only attack battleship not to do so. Besides; tracking speed would help it apply its dps SIGNIFICANTLY better if you're fitting ACs on it.