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Wormholes

 
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Taxation in WH, EVE CCP

First post
Author
Alundil
Rolled Out
#101 - 2014-07-27 21:42:47 UTC
Red Teufel wrote:
Imagine how broken it would be in the current system to not get taxed in a WH. just imagine the only way to make a decent profit was in WH space. EvE would die and the economy would tank.

No - THAT ^ would be most excellent. It would provide a lot of "content" :)

I'm right behind you

Amber Patoria
Division 13
#102 - 2014-07-27 22:34:50 UTC
Mizhir wrote:
Just noticed your sig. LOL

Everyone's doing it tough lately.

Never turn down good ISK just to flail around on a pole.

Candi LeMew > It doesn't have to make sense. It's just the way it is.

Johnny cruz > You end up getting off today Lotor?

loĸι

Hatshepsut IV
Un.Reasonable
#103 - 2014-07-28 04:04:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Hatshepsut IV
Kellie Dusette wrote:


Rod of Dusette Summoning



Tell us about this wondrous and arcane relic. Does it perhaps come in colors, varying sizes?

Public Channel | Un.Welcome

Trinity Griffin
Clann Fian
#104 - 2014-07-28 04:48:49 UTC
When will parking meters be implemented for the workers?
Ruse Lander
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#105 - 2014-07-28 05:25:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Ruse Lander
CCP Fozzie wrote:
For one thing, the primary goal behind the cost scaling has nothing to do with sinking ISK from the economy (ISK supply growth has remained well within a healthy range both before and after Crius).
CCP Fozzie wrote:
The upshot for Wormhole dwellers is that every installation in the game has at least some level of operating cost under the new system, and that the lower per-system population of Wormholes means that these costs will generally be much lower in Wormholes than in most other areas of space.


I can't speak to the mechanics behind the curtain but the following makes me wonder if player sovereignty and POS's (which as I am told didn't have these costs pre-crius) have any purpose anymore (at least in Null-Sec):

POST-CRIUS
2014.07.28 04:59:38 Manufacturing -2,344 ISK 1,492,505,953 ISK Manufacturing job fee between Ruse Lander and Secure Commerce Commission (Job ID: 230880787)

PRE-CRIUS
2014.07.20 15:04:53 Researching Time Efficiency -104,166 ISK 1,571,669,562 ISK Time efficiency research job fee between Ruse Lander and Fatal Holdings (Job ID: 229784739)

This is a case where the players built and/or maintain the structures as well as the systems in which they are located. There is no NPC faction controlling the systems in which they are located and yet an NPC faction is now the source of fees that were paid to the sovereignty controlling player corp.

But like I said, I don't know if this is a 'typo' and the isk is still going to the proper entity or not.



~btw - 'isk supply growth' is called inflation --- inflation cheapens the efforts of those earning it.
Kemptiss
Perkone
Caldari State
#106 - 2014-07-28 11:21:56 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Marox Calendale wrote:

But why did you do this awkward way using the corp wallet instead of taking the money directly from the Person who is installing the Job?


The industry team in Game of Drones are actually adding the ability to pay for starbase jobs with your personal wallet at the moment. They'll have it implemented as soon as possible.


Is this code for "in a couple months, when we really find the time"?
Erica Dusette
Division 13
#107 - 2014-07-28 11:30:36 UTC
Hatshepsut IV wrote:
Kellie Dusette wrote:


Rod of Dusette Summoning



Tell us about this wondrous and arcane relic. Does it perhaps come in colors, varying sizes?

Is black, very large and when gripped firmly can be felt pulsing softly with mysterious, dark energies.

Legend speaks of an ability to also glow in the dark under certain rare conditions, such as the nearby presence of Jack Miton.

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate Full-Time Supermodel

worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕвσss

Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#108 - 2014-07-28 13:23:56 UTC
Erica Dusette wrote:
Hatshepsut IV wrote:
Kellie Dusette wrote:


Rod of Dusette Summoning



Tell us about this wondrous and arcane relic. Does it perhaps come in colors, varying sizes?

Is black, very large and when gripped firmly can be felt pulsing softly with mysterious, dark energies.

Legend speaks of an ability to also glow in the dark under certain rare conditions, such as the nearby presence of Jack Miton.


Where do I acquire one of these? Or do I have one built in alreadyShocked?

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy

Alundil
Rolled Out
#109 - 2014-07-28 14:27:24 UTC
Hatshepsut IV wrote:
Kellie Dusette wrote:


Rod of Dusette Summoning



Tell us about this wondrous and arcane relic. Does it perhaps come in colors, varying sizes?

And multiple speeds, no doubt.

I'm right behind you

Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#110 - 2014-07-28 14:34:52 UTC
Alundil wrote:
Hatshepsut IV wrote:
Kellie Dusette wrote:


Rod of Dusette Summoning



Tell us about this wondrous and arcane relic. Does it perhaps come in colors, varying sizes?

And multiple speeds, no doubt.


I only know how to go fast. I call it "Thukker Style"

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy

HerrBert
T H E R A P Y
#111 - 2014-07-28 15:03:50 UTC  |  Edited by: HerrBert
Now recognize yo Gallo, jus caus thuks take roadkill like yo doesnt mean thuks be rep for Da Tribe!

But in all seriousness since we are talking lore

As Minmatar I fear my peoples exploitation may not be within Research and Development since we are teaching our younglings how to operate 1400mm Howitzers to defend against our enslavement by the Amarrian Scum, but I also see the oppertunity for low wage production employees to manifacture your ships within Rens or Hek.


Welcome to Hek (Space Burma)

Community-Challenge: Make Jack Miton sing a Duett with me. http://www.youtube.com/user/HerrBertism Jibbychiggawooooow - CSM 9 Corbexx

Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#112 - 2014-07-28 15:05:30 UTC
HerrBert wrote:
Now recognize yo Gallo, jus caus thuks take roadkill like yo doesnt mean thuks be rep for Da Tribe!


wat

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy

HerrBert
T H E R A P Y
#113 - 2014-07-28 15:08:56 UTC
Wat fixed it for you

Community-Challenge: Make Jack Miton sing a Duett with me. http://www.youtube.com/user/HerrBertism Jibbychiggawooooow - CSM 9 Corbexx

QT McWhiskers
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#114 - 2014-07-29 04:29:43 UTC
HerrBert wrote:
Wat fixed it for you


No I fixed that for you bert.
Senn Denroth
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#115 - 2014-07-29 07:09:37 UTC
The more I read about this stupid pay the workers think the more I want to unsub my accounts. 400,000k to put in some components. What ever happened to robotics? Thought EVE was based in the future. What about the choice of hiring slower lower paid workers instead.. some of the lore explanations in the name of balancing or scaling lately have been plain stupid. Can't wait to be paying for oil changes and window cleaning fees on my tengu. RIP EVE.

I put a tower up before Crius thinking it was going to be awesome. Now it needs to be taken down. AOE2 HD $20 on steam, got on it people! Better than paying $1000 per year for eve IMO.

Brb installing free to play games.
Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#116 - 2014-07-29 13:25:17 UTC
Senn Denroth wrote:
The more I read about this stupid pay the workers think the more I want to unsub my accounts. 400,000k to put in some components. What ever happened to robotics? Thought EVE was based in the future. What about the choice of hiring slower lower paid workers instead.. some of the lore explanations in the name of balancing or scaling lately have been plain stupid. Can't wait to be paying for oil changes and window cleaning fees on my tengu. RIP EVE.

I put a tower up before Crius thinking it was going to be awesome. Now it needs to be taken down. AOE2 HD $20 on steam, got on it people! Better than paying $1000 per year for eve IMO.

Brb installing free to play games.


So just don't do indy or just wait until they unfuck WHs for indy like is it really that hard?

AOE2? pls. fuckin casuals, everyone knows it's all EU4 all day.

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy

Larisma
Sunlight Corsairs
#117 - 2014-07-30 09:35:36 UTC
Oooooh Dusette girls! Can I join your posse Blink
Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#118 - 2014-07-30 13:11:19 UTC
Larisma wrote:
Oooooh Dusette girls! Can I join your posse Blink


You aren't pretty enough tbf // Maybe one day with a resculpt and hours spent playing Barbie. Dusette is just too beautiful, especially Candi Shocked

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy

Meytal
Doomheim
#119 - 2014-07-30 15:19:26 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hard caps on slots scale poorly as the game population grows over time, rely on values dictated by us instead of reacting to player behavior organically, and create the frustrating situation where sometimes the game tells you that you simply can't do the kind of industry you want right now. A soft cap would instead allow players to choose whatever cost level is acceptable to them, based on their other goals and motivations.

Quite the contrary.

Speaking from a W-space perspective, where we live out of POSes and we have access to only what we bring in the system, hard caps on industry slots scales as much as you (the resident) wants it to scale. While I do agree that having to interact with each individual structure to access the slots it manages is cumbersome as the number of structures increase, there is no scaling problem. We also have to install individual modules to perform specific manufacturing tasks: one facility for drones, various ones for ships, one for modules and rigs, one for ammo, etc.

If we have 10 manufacturing slots in a structure, that allows us to run 10 jobs simultaneously. Previously, not all jobs would run for 24 hours, so you could queue jobs to take advantage of that. But let's just assume that one facility is sufficient for one industrial character and all slots were normalized to 10. If you need more slots, you add more facilities. If the slots in a POS were pooled together, whereby you access one structure to interact with all slots, it would be better and you could directly see how things scaled.

At some point, you reach a decision point: adding any more facilities means you will need to reduce your defensive capabilities. This is something it seems you guys were hoping for with the module stacking thing, even though that really only penalizes W-space. This is the point where hard decisions are made, whether to stop adding indy facilities, or whether to reduce defenses, or whether to add another tower to the system.

Only at really large numbers of people crammed into a really small system with very few moons do you become cramped. And then you can still move elsewhere.


In Hisec, you can still have the unlimited slots concept, just charging more for additional slots as they are used; costs would naturally be higher the closer to Jita you are. The cost scaling makes sense in Hisec. It just doesn't make sense in W-space (or Sov Null, but they have so many carrots right now I've given up arguing for them).

CCP Fozzie wrote:
The upshot for Wormhole dwellers is that every installation in the game has at least some level of operating cost under the new system, and that the lower per-system population of Wormholes means that these costs will generally be much lower in Wormholes than in most other areas of space.

There is another nerf to W-space built into the new system regarding teams. Neighboring systems in K-space benefit from the presence of these teams; so a Nullsec group could charge increase rental fees for prime real estate that has teams available from nearby systems and constellations AND taking advantage of the teams themselves ... double-dipping.

In W-space, you have to win the bid and have that team in your system or you get nothing. So not only does Lowsec and Nullsec get some of the lowest installation costs in the game, as does W-space, but they also get to benefit from neighbors hiring teams. That alone should justify the removal of cost scaling for W-space.


I would have been very satisfied with keeping industry slots when operating out of POS facilities, keeping the scaling according to number of facilities while modifying the UI to merge slots into one window. If you are rewriting and merging Station/Outpost code with POS code, making stations a special case of POSes, then stations could have a special exception to provide unlimited slots with cost scaling in effect. Then the tradeoff: unlimited capacity and complete safety vs cost savings while limited in capacity with potential risk of loss.

All of the features in this recent release are useful in certain circumstances. They are just not all useful in every situation in the game, like just about anything else. One size almost never fits all.

I'm arguing against the ISK sink in W-space because it doesn't make sense, no matter how you try to justify it (let's be intelligent adults for a moment, oki?) But if you refuse to re-assess the compounded disadvantages you are throwing at w-space, relying solely on the argument that we share some of the lowest ISK sink costs in game, then we will adjust. It may mean we do less industry, or we have tighter margins, or maybe fewer industry alt accounts, but we will adjust.

As stated, the cost will just get pushed to the consumer: the one who turns the ISK faucet and fills up his buckets with ISK.
Larisma
Sunlight Corsairs
#120 - 2014-07-30 17:03:05 UTC
Andrew Jester wrote:
Larisma wrote:
Oooooh Dusette girls! Can I join your posse Blink


You aren't pretty enough tbf // Maybe one day with a resculpt and hours spent playing Barbie. Dusette is just too beautiful, especially Candi Shocked


Dunno I'd say im pretty bangable