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Command ships

Author
Ginger Barbarella
#21 - 2014-07-26 15:53:59 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
You're right, I haven't flown one and I don't intend to. I don't see the point.


Then your input in this thread is entirely invalid. Thanks for playing.


This.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac

Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#22 - 2014-07-26 16:11:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Riot Girl
Edit: removed unconstructive posting. Thanks ISDs.
Redwyne Vyruk
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2014-07-26 23:20:56 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
The way I see it, they're basically useless. A T3 can do cloaky nullified links and scanning and on grid, a HAC does the job better imo.

(edit: not the job of doing links, but the job of killing stuff, just to clarify).

Command Ships; More DPS by at least 30%, More tank by up to a couple hundred %, with less agility than a HAC and no SP loss for getting killed.

Redwyne Vyruk; I never bothered to use missiles as I find turrets to be more my thing, so I can't help you with the Nighthawk.


i misswrote what i was asking, my bad, i was asking about the boosts mainly as my boosting toons doens't have combat skills so i wont' bring him in PVP
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#24 - 2014-07-26 23:45:00 UTC
CSes provide better fleet boosts but they don't cloak, don't scan and don't pull their weight in a fight. 3x stratios + 1x Legion is the way to go tbh imo. Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#25 - 2014-07-26 23:53:32 UTC
Redwyne Vyruk wrote:
i misswrote what i was asking, my bad, i was asking about the boosts mainly as my boosting toons doens't have combat skills so i wont' bring him in PVP

The boosts are standard and what they give you depends on what your boosting, so here's an example of the difference between a no-link ship and an linked ship. (Linked ''Boosted'' with a Vulture with T2 command links and a mindlinked clone)


Without a Booster
[Statistics - Goldiiee]
Effective HP: 50,932 (Eve: 40,301)
Tank Ability: 3,126.22 DPS
Shield Resists - EM: 87.70%, Ex: 75.39%, Ki: 79.45%, Th: 80.31%
Armor Resists - EM: 91.50%, Ex: 23.50%, Ki: 36.25%, Th: 72.38%
Capacitor (Stable at 88.99%)
Targeting range - 87,500 m
Scan Res - 275.00 mm
Sensor strength -23.20
Warp Align Time - 8.43s
Volley Damage: 3,213.30
DPS: 1,044.15

With a Vulture T2 Links Booster, with Caldari Navy Mindlink.
[Statistics - Goldiiee]
Effective HP: 64,939 (Eve: 51,945)
Tank Ability: 5,283.07 DPS
Shield Resists - EM: 90.46%, Ex: 80.92%, Ki: 82.49%, Th: 84.74%
Armor Resists - EM: 91.50%, Ex: 23.50%, Ki: 36.25%, Th: 72.38%
Targeting range - 152,698 m
Scan Res - 302.50 mm
Sensor strength -35.21
Warp Align Time - 7.59s
Capacitor (Stable at 88.99%)
Volley Damage: 3,213.30
DPS: 1,044.15

So yes your Vulture pilot will add effectiveness to your other pilot, as long as it is not in warp or getting killed by the scanning toon your aggressors brought to find it. It might be good to note that the ISK spent on training and shipping and implants for a Command Links toon it could be cheaper to put top end deadspace mods on your PVP toon's frigates Big smile

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.

Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2014-07-27 00:10:39 UTC
Command ships are borderline overpowered right now, the drawback is that regular T1 battlecruisers are garbage ATM so you'll be training skills for a long time before you see any benefit.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#27 - 2014-07-27 00:31:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Riot Girl
Edit.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#28 - 2014-07-27 00:52:32 UTC
Confirming that Nighthawk is a bad ass ship.

I like to run it with crap dps and 2 links and a fat tank.

XL ASB with 95k health and a AB makes it fun if people primary it.

Pulling 1300 self rep to help the logi keep it on the field makes it great when primarried.

With 5 launcher and 2 links they will go after you and you will laugh.
O'nira
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#29 - 2014-07-27 01:24:53 UTC
some of the numbers in this thread seem to be exaggerated just a tad.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#30 - 2014-07-27 01:49:10 UTC
O'nira wrote:
some of the numbers in this thread seem to be exaggerated just a tad.

Would you prefer screen shots? Or were you not referring to my numbers?

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.

Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#31 - 2014-07-27 11:04:07 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
CSes provide better fleet boosts but they don't cloak, don't scan and don't pull their weight in a fight. 3x stratios + 1x Legion is the way to go tbh imo. Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings.


That's quite true. The reason to go CS over boosting T3s in wormholes though is the fact that you usually don't warp off a camped hole to set up alive, spawning in decloakrange of the hole surrounded by 10-20 cruisers with mild dictorsupport/instalegions.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#32 - 2014-07-27 12:01:48 UTC
O'nira wrote:
some of the numbers in this thread seem to be exaggerated just a tad.

I can show you a 1500 DPS astarte. Not one I'd field, but 1500 DPS, with a tank fitted, and tackle, and maybe a link or 2.
Or grid-stretching sniper vultures. Call out what you think is BS and I'll go break it with a hammer until the numbers work.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp

Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#33 - 2014-07-27 20:23:02 UTC
About Nighthawk .. unless you want it for links it's not quite as good as Tengu in L4 missions. There are some PvE activities where it makes sense, but not solo and not in hi sec as far as I'm aware.

Tengu vs Nighthawk. Nighthawk has more buffer, less agility (and warp speed), one less rig slot. Damage wise Tengu wins unless you take into account drones so it really depends if what you are doing really benefits from flight of light drones. Tengu has less wasted volleys and substantially better range with missiles because of missile speed bonus. Both are confined to doing only kin damage most of the time. Tengu more so.

Tengu problem is that if you load it with 4x CN BCU's it's a bit too fragile to get away with it if someone takes note.

For links in shield PvE I personally would prefer usually Minmatar commands. Information warfare is not that useful for PvE usually.

I can and do fly both.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2014-07-28 11:52:13 UTC
They all need more CPU. If ccp wants peopel to use on grid links then fielding the links should not hamper the fitting capabilities of the ship. Now, to use thelink slots you have to make CPU usage sacrifices. Give each one around 30 tf more.

Also all of them could gain some warp speed boost, so that they can keep along a fleet. RIght now t3 are plain superior because of that.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2014-07-28 11:54:36 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
Command ships are borderline overpowered right now, the drawback is that regular T1 battlecruisers are garbage ATM so you'll be training skills for a long time before you see any benefit.



If they were overpowered you would see them being used a lot more on small scale combat. But they are very rare on that because T3 are better most of the time and cost just a tad more.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Cydelle Abraham
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2014-07-28 11:59:51 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:

Also all of them could gain some warp speed boost, so that they can keep along a fleet. RIght now t3 are plain superior because of that.


This is their biggest drawback if you ask me.

In the current meta most doctrines are kept to cruiser size and below in order to be somewhat agile and fast (in and outside of warp). If you want to bring an ongrid boosting CS with your fleet you will be slowed down because of that choice.
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#37 - 2014-07-28 13:28:21 UTC
Cydelle Abraham wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:

Also all of them could gain some warp speed boost, so that they can keep along a fleet. RIght now t3 are plain superior because of that.


This is their biggest drawback if you ask me.

In the current meta most doctrines are kept to cruiser size and below in order to be somewhat agile and fast (in and outside of warp). If you want to bring an ongrid boosting CS with your fleet you will be slowed down because of that choice.


You can rig it / fit it to keep up with cruisers. But that is not without it's issues (like the CPU hit from rigs, for example) and most definitely is not a "solo" concept which OP seemed to be asking for.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.

Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#38 - 2014-07-28 16:05:55 UTC
Numbers are exagerated. Please, if you've poasted bloated numbers feel free to back them up w/ a fit or screenshot.

The OP clearly stated other than pvp. Most of you ninnies are off topic.

Now that I have my rude out of the way:

I haven't flown the claymore. All the rest have been pretty awesome. My likes for pve
Nighthawk
Sleipner
Astarte
Vulture
Absolution

You have to read some of the above post carefully - they are a bit screwy.

The ASB sleipner that doesn't use cap? I'm pretty sure cap boosters are cap, and even if they aren't, when you are reloading they sure do. When you run out of boosters all together then you deplete your cap pretty quickly. PVP most fights are over before this comes up, but PVE it will come up. If you nerf your resists enough to fit 2 ASB then you'll burn through charges all the faster. Just saying some of the above advice is pretty sketchy - possibly borderline bad.
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2014-07-28 18:13:39 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Xequecal wrote:
Command ships are borderline overpowered right now, the drawback is that regular T1 battlecruisers are garbage ATM so you'll be training skills for a long time before you see any benefit.



If they were overpowered you would see them being used a lot more on small scale combat. But they are very rare on that because T3 are better most of the time and cost just a tad more.


Can't put a MMJD on a T3.

I'm still maintaining the non-use of Command Ships is because of the skill training time, and because all of the CS prerequisite skills are pretty much worthless on their own. You can get into a T3 in like a third of the time. In addition, Cruiser V is very useful as Eve is pretty much Cruisers Online right now, BC V doesn't do **** for your character on its own as the T1 battlecruisers are pretty much relegated to suicide ganking duty and nothing else. The Sleipnir and Eos are absolutely nuts in small gang combat, T3s don't even come close.
Alexa Coates
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2014-07-28 23:27:56 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:
Redwyne Vyruk wrote:
i misswrote what i was asking, my bad, i was asking about the boosts mainly as my boosting toons doens't have combat skills so i wont' bring him in PVP

The boosts are standard and what they give you depends on what your boosting, so here's an example of the difference between a no-link ship and an linked ship. (Linked ''Boosted'' with a Vulture with T2 command links and a mindlinked clone)


Without a Booster
[Statistics - Goldiiee]
Effective HP: 50,932 (Eve: 40,301)
Tank Ability: 3,126.22 DPS
Shield Resists - EM: 87.70%, Ex: 75.39%, Ki: 79.45%, Th: 80.31%
Armor Resists - EM: 91.50%, Ex: 23.50%, Ki: 36.25%, Th: 72.38%
Capacitor (Stable at 88.99%)
Targeting range - 87,500 m
Scan Res - 275.00 mm
Sensor strength -23.20
Warp Align Time - 8.43s
Volley Damage: 3,213.30
DPS: 1,044.15

With a Vulture T2 Links Booster, with Caldari Navy Mindlink.
[Statistics - Goldiiee]
Effective HP: 64,939 (Eve: 51,945)
Tank Ability: 5,283.07 DPS
Shield Resists - EM: 90.46%, Ex: 80.92%, Ki: 82.49%, Th: 84.74%
Armor Resists - EM: 91.50%, Ex: 23.50%, Ki: 36.25%, Th: 72.38%
Targeting range - 152,698 m
Scan Res - 302.50 mm
Sensor strength -35.21
Warp Align Time - 7.59s
Capacitor (Stable at 88.99%)
Volley Damage: 3,213.30
DPS: 1,044.15

So yes your Vulture pilot will add effectiveness to your other pilot, as long as it is not in warp or getting killed by the scanning toon your aggressors brought to find it. It might be good to note that the ISK spent on training and shipping and implants for a Command Links toon it could be cheaper to put top end deadspace mods on your PVP toon's frigates Big smile

those stats, jesus christ.

post fits for the love of spooge.

That's a Templar, an Amarr fighter used by carriers.