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[Proposal] AFK game play - the cloaked vessel

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Author
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#421 - 2014-07-27 12:53:16 UTC
Emmy Mnemonic wrote:
I hardly ever rat either, and when I do it's to lure hotdoppers to drop me so we can counter-drop them. I'm not so full of myself (like others are in this thread) that I look down on those that DO rat! Let them play EVE the way they want, and let us others play the way we want!

I want to open up a possibility for player to counter AFK cloakers! Not because I want to rat freely, but because I like to outsmart the hunters, and I want their fancy ships in killmails! If they are so stupid they leave the computer, they should have a threat on them!

I admire thos who hunt actively, thats a real sport! But AFK cloaking for weeks to make ratters careless is not to be admired at all, thats just to simple and no sport at all. Gank-bears - thats a brlliant term! They risk nothing, it requires no skills and no intelligence, just some extra accounts of neutral alts that can light a cyno, cloak and use a scram.

EVE Online needs a mechanism for players to impose a threat to AFK Cloakers. Period.

For the sake of argument, let's say you were given the means to hunt cloaked ships.
And they gained nothing in exchange, for losing this protected isolating mode.

You see the player name appear in local. You are now alerted to start your hunting tools, in case they are cloaked.
You are at a gate camp. No I am not implying you can see the gate cloak, but you know many ships use a cloak to evade camps.
It makes sense these cloak hunting tactics would be used here.
Bubblecamps would become effective at stopping most cloaked traffic.
A nulli T3, like an inty, could still evade some bubblecamps, but as a slower to align ship would be exposed far more than before.
They would be reduced in use as a result, to the point of becoming trivial as a presence.
Only an inty could slip by reliably. As a non-sustainable threat that can be broadcast over intel channels, inties rely on these channels not warning players in downstream systems.

So, the net effect would rely on the defending alliance screwing up by not placing bubbles with the cloak hunting tools, and / or not sustaining an intel channel to guard against the possible remaining threat from inties.

The safety level operating PvE within null sov would jump up, creating a need only to maintain shepherds at gate camps. Their little PvE sheep would then be safe from the bad bad wolves.
Anything cloaked, assuming it got past the gate camps somehow, could be cleared by simply seeing the new name in local, and hunting it down.

Remaining possible threat? Blobs.
Since they are numbingly easy to report in intel, they can be evaded just as easily. PvE assets become entrenched, with null players only risking ships by choice.

Would this be your version of balanced?
Ray Kyonhe
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#422 - 2014-07-27 13:40:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Ray Kyonhe
Nikk Narrel wrote:

For the sake of argument, let's say you were given the means to hunt cloaked ships.
And they gained nothing in exchange, for losing this protected isolating mode.

I'm sorry to intervine, but what do you think about my piece which tries to tackle this particular problem? With this approach cloackers won't lose their ability to cloak in total security, they will lose only ability to attack out of total surprise as it will make cloacked hotdrops more hard to pull, giving some time window for vigilant enough victim to react. I would like some input on these as I've been thinking about the problem for a while too.
Here it is: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4847064#post4847064

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Ray Kyonhe
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#423 - 2014-07-27 14:30:20 UTC
We could even unbind this new indicatior from d-scan range and allow it to light up if anywhere in the system somebody gone to 2nd mode. Attacker can benefit from it too - now victim can't even approximately tell how close he to her at any given moment, he can be anywhere in the system, or 10km from victim's location.

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Emmy Mnemonic
The Northerners
Northern Coalition.
#424 - 2014-07-27 15:14:02 UTC
AFK cloakers - that's what we are after! Not people flying cloaked ships actively! There the current functionality is sufficient I'd say, no need to touch that!

EVE Online needs a mechanic for players to impose a threat to AFK cloakers. A F K C l o a k e r s! We want their fancy ships in killmails, thank you!

Ex ex-CEO of Svea Rike [.S.R.]

Pheusia
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#425 - 2014-07-27 16:37:03 UTC
How about a grid-wide doomsday that asks your permission to blow you up, with a 60 second timer. Don't say "NO" in time, then you die.
Seraph IX Basarab
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#426 - 2014-07-27 22:30:30 UTC
No sorry you don't get to have tools that make your ratting easier. You want to deal with your attacker, set up bait. He hot drops you with 20 redeemers, have your own guys on stand by to. Terms like "gankbear" doesn't do anything but try to shift blame.
Pheusia
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#427 - 2014-07-27 23:29:53 UTC
How about a recalibration of your Sarcasmometer?
Seraph IX Basarab
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#428 - 2014-07-28 00:06:34 UTC
That was meant to be quoted for the last person that replied to me.
Emmy Mnemonic
The Northerners
Northern Coalition.
#429 - 2014-07-28 07:25:47 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
No sorry you don't get to have tools that make your ratting easier. You want to deal with your attacker, set up bait. He hot drops you with 20 redeemers, have your own guys on stand by to. Terms like "gankbear" doesn't do anything but try to shift blame.


I agree there should not be tools in the game that make certain activities easy or easier! You are perfectly right there!

And where such tools exist in the game that make life simple and easy they should be changed so that the easy part is countered with a certain amount of hardship and risk, possible for other players to impose!

Such an existing area today in the game is AFK cloaking! THAT is so easy, my 5 year old son could handle it; he can start the client, hit the cloak-button and then play with his Lego the rest of the day, and thus performing a rather perfect AFK cloaing activity! HE could go on doing that for ever and ever and ever just like a gankbear (5-year olds like to repeat simple things as you know. "again!" "again!"). He is just brilliant, my 5 year old son, and could easily be one of the best AFK cloakers in this game (the competition is not so mature..haha...)!

I just can't find it in myself to admire these gankbears! What's to admire really? It's so simple it does not belong in EVE online!

The people who should be admired are those who use the more difficult ways of performing hotdrops - cloaky scouts to actively seek out their preys, they fly around using the DotLan or eq. map looking in the systems with the most ratting-activity, they "bomb-rush" systems to catch dazed and un-aligned ratters in belts, they log of in system in a hub waiting 30 minutes and then log on again trying to catch guys that don't pay attention to intel. They use spies to scout out ratters, and then log on their cyno-alt. They scout out transport routes and map their opponents work, and then place warp bubbles between the POS and the station to catch lazy freighter-pilots that are so rich they dont care anymore and never change their way of flying. Thes admireable hotdroppers are hard to catch, but if you try hard you can outsmart them. But it takes effort, skills, intelligence and time. And that's what makes it fun to hunt those guys!

But AFK cloaking is for 5 year olds. Simple has no place in EVE online! Gankbears have a too easy life!

You guys that oppose this suggestion, you are free to have your oppinions. But I sense there is no real substance behind your "arguments" other than you despice ratters and dislike a splendid term ("Gankbear") by trying to argu that it shifts blame (really Seraph! really!). Or you ridicule the suggestion by saying we should have a "system-wide doomsday" etc etc. These are all signs that you HAVE no real arguments, you squirm and troll your way around the suggestion that would require you to actually PLAY EVE Online and use intelligence while playing! I find that highly amusing, bring moar tears pls! Ratter-tears are beautiful, I love them! But hotdropper-tears are magnificient! I want them, also in-game pls!

If we are to have a more sound discussion; could you describe in what way AFK cloaking is essential for your hotdropping playstyle? Why could you not be succesful using the more "challenging" ways I gave some examples of above? I'm sure you can continue your hotdrops without AFK cloaking, it will only require a bit more wits because we will hunt you not only when you play intelligently, using the means Seraph described above, but also when you "play" EVE without actually playing EVE, the way a 5-year old could play EVE - when you AFK cloak.

EVE Online needs a mechanism for players to impose a threat to AFK cloakers.

Your turn, gankbears. Sound arguments please. Or moar gankbear tears!

Ex ex-CEO of Svea Rike [.S.R.]

Seraph IX Basarab
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#430 - 2014-07-28 07:52:35 UTC
Emmy Mnemonic wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
No sorry you don't get to have tools that make your ratting easier. You want to deal with your attacker, set up bait. He hot drops you with 20 redeemers, have your own guys on stand by to. Terms like "gankbear" doesn't do anything but try to shift blame.


I agree there should not be tools in the game that make certain activities easy or easier! You are perfectly right there!

And where such tools exist in the game that make life simple and easy they should be changed so that the easy part is countered with a certain amount of hardship and risk, possible for other players to impose!

Such an existing area today in the game is AFK cloaking! THAT is so easy, my 5 year old son could handle it; he can start the client, hit the cloak-button and then play with his Lego the rest of the day, and thus performing a rather perfect AFK cloaing activity! HE could go on doing that for ever and ever and ever just like a gankbear (5-year olds like to repeat simple things as you know. "again!" "again!"). He is just brilliant, my 5 year old son, and could easily be one of the best AFK cloakers in this game (the competition is not so mature..haha...)!

I just can't find it in myself to admire these gankbears! What's to admire really? It's so simple it does not belong in EVE online!

The people who should be admired are those who use the more difficult ways of performing hotdrops - cloaky scouts to actively seek out their preys, they fly around using the DotLan or eq. map looking in the systems with the most ratting-activity, they "bomb-rush" systems to catch dazed and un-aligned ratters in belts, they log of in system in a hub waiting 30 minutes and then log on again trying to catch guys that don't pay attention to intel. They use spies to scout out ratters, and then log on their cyno-alt. They scout out transport routes and map their opponents work, and then place warp bubbles between the POS and the station to catch lazy freighter-pilots that are so rich they dont care anymore and never change their way of flying. Thes admireable hotdroppers are hard to catch, but if you try hard you can outsmart them. But it takes effort, skills, intelligence and time. And that's what makes it fun to hunt those guys!

But AFK cloaking is for 5 year olds. Simple has no place in EVE online! Gankbears have a too easy life!

You guys that oppose this suggestion, you are free to have your oppinions. But I sense there is no real substance behind your "arguments" other than you despice ratters and dislike a splendid term ("Gankbear") by trying to argu that it shifts blame (really Seraph! really!). Or you ridicule the suggestion by saying we should have a "system-wide doomsday" etc etc. These are all signs that you HAVE no real arguments, you squirm and troll your way around the suggestion that would require you to actually PLAY EVE Online and use intelligence while playing! I find that highly amusing, bring moar tears pls! Ratter-tears are beautiful, I love them! But hotdropper-tears are magnificient! I want them, also in-game pls!

If we are to have a more sound discussion; could you describe in what way AFK cloaking is essential for your hotdropping playstyle? Why could you not be succesful using the more "challenging" ways I gave some examples of above? I'm sure you can continue your hotdrops without AFK cloaking, it will only require a bit more wits because we will hunt you not only when you play intelligently, using the means Seraph described above, but also when you "play" EVE without actually playing EVE, the way a 5-year old could play EVE - when you AFK cloak.

EVE Online needs a mechanism for players to impose a threat to AFK cloakers.

Your turn, gankbears. Sound arguments please. Or moar gankbear tears!




One more time for you, very simple.

AFK cloaking exists because local exists. If I show up in your system, you dock up or come in a ship a soft low tank cloaky ship cannot fight.
Emmy Mnemonic
The Northerners
Northern Coalition.
#431 - 2014-07-28 08:36:13 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Emmy Mnemonic wrote:
I hardly ever rat either, and when I do it's to lure hotdoppers to drop me so we can counter-drop them. I'm not so full of myself (like others are in this thread) that I look down on those that DO rat! Let them play EVE the way they want, and let us others play the way we want!

I want to open up a possibility for player to counter AFK cloakers! Not because I want to rat freely, but because I like to outsmart the hunters, and I want their fancy ships in killmails! If they are so stupid they leave the computer, they should have a threat on them!

I admire thos who hunt actively, thats a real sport! But AFK cloaking for weeks to make ratters careless is not to be admired at all, thats just to simple and no sport at all. Gank-bears - thats a brlliant term! They risk nothing, it requires no skills and no intelligence, just some extra accounts of neutral alts that can light a cyno, cloak and use a scram.

EVE Online needs a mechanism for players to impose a threat to AFK Cloakers. Period.

For the sake of argument, let's say you were given the means to hunt cloaked ships.
And they gained nothing in exchange, for losing this protected isolating mode.

You see the player name appear in local. You are now alerted to start your hunting tools, in case they are cloaked.
You are at a gate camp. No I am not implying you can see the gate cloak, but you know many ships use a cloak to evade camps.
It makes sense these cloak hunting tactics would be used here.
Bubblecamps would become effective at stopping most cloaked traffic.
A nulli T3, like an inty, could still evade some bubblecamps, but as a slower to align ship would be exposed far more than before.
They would be reduced in use as a result, to the point of becoming trivial as a presence.
Only an inty could slip by reliably. As a non-sustainable threat that can be broadcast over intel channels, inties rely on these channels not warning players in downstream systems.

So, the net effect would rely on the defending alliance screwing up by not placing bubbles with the cloak hunting tools, and / or not sustaining an intel channel to guard against the possible remaining threat from inties.

The safety level operating PvE within null sov would jump up, creating a need only to maintain shepherds at gate camps. Their little PvE sheep would then be safe from the bad bad wolves.
Anything cloaked, assuming it got past the gate camps somehow, could be cleared by simply seeing the new name in local, and hunting it down.

Remaining possible threat? Blobs.
Since they are numbingly easy to report in intel, they can be evaded just as easily. PvE assets become entrenched, with null players only risking ships by choice.

Would this be your version of balanced?


No, you have missunderstood me.

I want AFK cloakers to have a risk of losing their ship. I don't see any need to touch the existing ways cloaks work, as you describe that would disturb the balance. Only AFK cloakers*. Nothing else. If you are actively flying your cloaked ship around in system and between systems, my suggestion is that works as it does now. No changes needed. But AFK cloakers* that log on, cloak up, and then never touch their client for hours upon hours, until directly after next DT when they log on, cloak up and so on. Thats despicable, to easy, has no risk to it and should be changed by CCP so we can hunt them down and destroy them.

A F K C l o a k e r s , can't stress that enough! AFK.

Ex ex-CEO of Svea Rike [.S.R.]

Emmy Mnemonic
The Northerners
Northern Coalition.
#432 - 2014-07-28 08:58:51 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Emmy Mnemonic wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
No sorry you don't get to have tools that make your ratting easier. You want to deal with your attacker, set up bait. He hot drops you with 20 redeemers, have your own guys on stand by to. Terms like "gankbear" doesn't do anything but try to shift blame.


I agree there should not be tools in the game that make certain activities easy or easier! You are perfectly right there!

And where such tools exist in the game that make life simple and easy they should be changed so that the easy part is countered with a certain amount of hardship and risk, possible for other players to impose!

Such an existing area today in the game is AFK cloaking! THAT is so easy, my 5 year old son could handle it; he can start the client, hit the cloak-button and then play with his Lego the rest of the day, and thus performing a rather perfect AFK cloaing activity! HE could go on doing that for ever and ever and ever just like a gankbear (5-year olds like to repeat simple things as you know. "again!" "again!"). He is just brilliant, my 5 year old son, and could easily be one of the best AFK cloakers in this game (the competition is not so mature..haha...)!

I just can't find it in myself to admire these gankbears! What's to admire really? It's so simple it does not belong in EVE online!

The people who should be admired are those who use the more difficult ways of performing hotdrops - cloaky scouts to actively seek out their preys, they fly around using the DotLan or eq. map looking in the systems with the most ratting-activity, they "bomb-rush" systems to catch dazed and un-aligned ratters in belts, they log of in system in a hub waiting 30 minutes and then log on again trying to catch guys that don't pay attention to intel. They use spies to scout out ratters, and then log on their cyno-alt. They scout out transport routes and map their opponents work, and then place warp bubbles between the POS and the station to catch lazy freighter-pilots that are so rich they dont care anymore and never change their way of flying. Thes admireable hotdroppers are hard to catch, but if you try hard you can outsmart them. But it takes effort, skills, intelligence and time. And that's what makes it fun to hunt those guys!

But AFK cloaking is for 5 year olds. Simple has no place in EVE online! Gankbears have a too easy life!

You guys that oppose this suggestion, you are free to have your oppinions. But I sense there is no real substance behind your "arguments" other than you despice ratters and dislike a splendid term ("Gankbear") by trying to argu that it shifts blame (really Seraph! really!). Or you ridicule the suggestion by saying we should have a "system-wide doomsday" etc etc. These are all signs that you HAVE no real arguments, you squirm and troll your way around the suggestion that would require you to actually PLAY EVE Online and use intelligence while playing! I find that highly amusing, bring moar tears pls! Ratter-tears are beautiful, I love them! But hotdropper-tears are magnificient! I want them, also in-game pls!

If we are to have a more sound discussion; could you describe in what way AFK cloaking is essential for your hotdropping playstyle? Why could you not be succesful using the more "challenging" ways I gave some examples of above? I'm sure you can continue your hotdrops without AFK cloaking, it will only require a bit more wits because we will hunt you not only when you play intelligently, using the means Seraph described above, but also when you "play" EVE without actually playing EVE, the way a 5-year old could play EVE - when you AFK cloak.

EVE Online needs a mechanism for players to impose a threat to AFK cloakers.

Your turn, gankbears. Sound arguments please. Or moar gankbear tears!




One more time for you, very simple.

AFK cloaking exists because local exists. If I show up in your system, you dock up or come in a ship a soft low tank cloaky ship cannot fight.


I soak up those meta-tears greatfuly! Thank you!

Sorry Serpah, I don't see the arguments here either. I want to know how a little risk to your AFK cloaked ship would be so "dangerous"? Don't you agree it is totally risk-free today? Don't you agree that EVE should have risks to ALL situations? You just don't have any sound arguments to why there should be no counter to AFK cloakers! It amuses me enormously!

I want to be able hunt you when you leave your soft low tank ship AFK cloaked! I want you to see that I'm looking for AFK cloaky ships and be able to force you to actively play! I take a risk in hunting you, because you will have a cyno. And if you know I will hunt you, you will use other ships that can withstand a bit of a beating so your cyno can live long enogh for you to bridge in someting that suprises ME! YOU might be tricking ME by faking beeing AFK when in fact you have 24 BlackOps waiting! I want to have that adrenaline-kick when I light MY cyno and we see who has brought the best fleet in for the fight! Would it not be splendid game-play! The ultimate pvp! We all risk something and much fun will be had!

If you are flying that low tank cloaky actively, fine with me! I dont want to be able to find you. If you need to go to your grandmother, safe-log in a safespot off scan!

But AFK cloak - there should be a risk to it!

Gankbearing is not playing EVE. It's 5-year olds gamestyle. And you have no arguments against it, just stating the obvious "it is this way because it is this way". I want to change the way it is because there should NEVER be any risk-free playing in EVE. I DO want to change ship when you come in a cloaky ship! But I want to change to a ship that can hunt you down if you AFK cloak. There should ALWAYS be a counter to everything.

EVE Online needs a mechanism for players to impose a threat to AFK Cloakers.

Argumnets Seraph, arguments!

Ex ex-CEO of Svea Rike [.S.R.]

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#433 - 2014-07-28 13:43:29 UTC
Emmy Mnemonic wrote:
No, you have missunderstood me.

I want AFK cloakers to have a risk of losing their ship. I don't see any need to touch the existing ways cloaks work, as you describe that would disturb the balance. Only AFK cloakers*. Nothing else. If you are actively flying your cloaked ship around in system and between systems, my suggestion is that works as it does now. No changes needed. But AFK cloakers* that log on, cloak up, and then never touch their client for hours upon hours, until directly after next DT when they log on, cloak up and so on. Thats despicable, to easy, has no risk to it and should be changed by CCP so we can hunt them down and destroy them.

A F K C l o a k e r s , can't stress that enough! AFK.

Ok, while you did not say this directly, your response has indicated the key element of this issue is intel.

You want to know that the cloak equipped pilot is actually online and attentive. Not simply connected to the game while their name is still persisting in local chat.

I would go so far as to assume, that since you seem to be asking for this awareness, you also feel you are entitled to know.
(Not yanking on your chain, just pointing out a detail)

The problem with this tactic, is that PvE players use it in reverse, and your request would empower them in two ways.

1. Fake predator / Scarecrow.
I mentioned already, that it is a tactic usable by PvE players to fly a kite. If you knew that a hostile showing in system had to be active, you would at once either retreat or reship into a combat craft.
The real owner, your so-called buddy who is blue or green to you in a PvE ship, is claiming they know a detail that let's them avoid combat, or they are so good at fighting that they survive. They are isking up mining and ratting while you avoid the same to be safe. And depending on context, they can take your share of the ISK doing it.
(Limited spawns, or limited amount of high value asteroids)

2. The POS sitting PvE player waiting for local to clear.
I can't say how many times I have seen booster alts or others sitting in a POS, for hours or days on end.
These guys stay online, numbing hunters to their presence this way, and go active when it looks safe.
Unless a hunter actually sees them at a NPC spawn or roid field, they can easily assume they are parked as usual at the POS, and move on without delay.
Knowing a hunter had to be active, would mean that they had even more opportunities to stroll out than before, boosting the success and participation of this tactic.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#434 - 2014-07-28 13:52:30 UTC
Ray Kyonhe wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:

For the sake of argument, let's say you were given the means to hunt cloaked ships.
And they gained nothing in exchange, for losing this protected isolating mode.

I'm sorry to intervine, but what do you think about my piece which tries to tackle this particular problem? With this approach cloackers won't lose their ability to cloak in total security, they will lose only ability to attack out of total surprise as it will make cloacked hotdrops more hard to pull, giving some time window for vigilant enough victim to react. I would like some input on these as I've been thinking about the problem for a while too.
Here it is: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4847064#post4847064

This boosts the intel regarding threat levels on one side, without giving anything meaningful to the other.

You know they are effectively AFK if you can't scan them, and for the near trivial effort of repeat scanning every minute or so, you can be warned before they can sneak up on you too.

The owner of the cloaked ship cannot remain in hunting mode indefinitely while cloaked, as even a simple presence lamp can let the d-scan triangulate you down and lock you given enough time.... like say the amount of time an AFK player is at work or asleep. Even if they had their ship moving, it would still be in either a straight line or an orbit around an object on grid.
Both can be compensated out if patient, and these players would have nothing better to do... since PvE would feel unsafe.
Emmy Mnemonic
The Northerners
Northern Coalition.
#435 - 2014-07-28 14:06:35 UTC
I think there are many ways to make AFK cloakys possible to find, that would not let the hunter know if the AFK cloaky is AFK or not. Also naturally the cloaker should be able to see he/she is beeing searched for. Unless he/she is in fact AFK, that would be a bit weird.

As for the POS-sitting interdiction nullified belt- botter, like we have in Fountain, reported many times without CCP caring, I agree; they should be delt with and should have no benefits. There are obvious ways to handle that in a game design aswell.

Ex ex-CEO of Svea Rike [.S.R.]

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#436 - 2014-07-28 15:00:58 UTC
Emmy Mnemonic wrote:
I think there are many ways to make AFK cloakys possible to find, that would not let the hunter know if the AFK cloaky is AFK or not. Also naturally the cloaker should be able to see he/she is beeing searched for. Unless he/she is in fact AFK, that would be a bit weird.


It would not matter if you knew they were AFK, since the perception and effect on the cloaked player's side would be that they had to leave if they could not compensate for the tactics hunting them.
Pausing PvE activity briefly, is trivial to enough players that this would effectively neutralize cloaked threats.
The cloaked threat becomes insignificant when it is not practical to sustain, in this context.

Since neither small groups or large blobs, (of PvP combat ships), are practical to threaten PvE assets in null, thanks to gate camps and intel channels...
What remains if the cloaked ships cannot manage a sustained presence?

The net effect of reduced threat to PvE play in null, will make the game less interesting thanks to less interaction.
How will CCP balance the peaceful systems so that players find them interesting to play in?


Emmy Mnemonic wrote:
As for the POS-sitting interdiction nullified belt- botter, like we have in Fountain, reported many times without CCP caring, I agree; they should be delt with and should have no benefits. There are obvious ways to handle that in a game design aswell.

Oh, I am not talking about someone botting.
I am talking about someone AFK sitting in a friendly system, so that a hostile that patrols will get used to seeing them listed in local.

After being seen repeatedly, and tracked down to sitting in an invulnerable POS each time, the hostile becomes more likely to ignore that name in local when they see it next time.
This gives increased reaction time to the PvE player should they actually go active, and represents a possible intel channel reporter blowing the cover of the hostile as well.
These two aspects make POS sitting a tactic for adoption by AFK players, like the flip side of the cloaking tactic.
Emmy Mnemonic
The Northerners
Northern Coalition.
#437 - 2014-07-28 15:39:09 UTC
Once again - the game needs a mechanism to allow players to impose a threat to AFK cloakers. Why should there exist a risk-free play style that allows people to hide safely wihtout playing actively for days and days, weeks and weeks? If you want to hunt ratters, even today you wont get the alert ones, you will get the lazy, inactive and unintelligent ratters, and the AFK ratters. Keep on killing them by all means! . You will have the same effect without AFK cloaking though. There is no need for AFK cloaking in the game. It promotes the same playstyle as the ratters use, it's despicable and those using it should have a risk of getting caught!

There are no doubt other mechanisms in EVE Online that would need an iteration or two, like safe-POSes etc. But the subject of this particular thread was cloaky gameplay, and I think AFK cloakers should not live risk-free! I want them to play actively, or stand a risk of loosing their ships.

Ex ex-CEO of Svea Rike [.S.R.]

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#438 - 2014-07-28 15:54:50 UTC
Emmy Mnemonic wrote:
Once again - the game needs a mechanism to allow players to impose a threat to AFK cloakers. Why should there exist a risk-free play style that allows people to hide safely wihtout playing actively for days and days, weeks and weeks? If you want to hunt ratters, even today you wont get the alert ones, you will get the lazy, inactive and unintelligent ratters, and the AFK ratters. Keep on killing them by all means! . You will have the same effect without AFK cloaking though. There is no need for AFK cloaking in the game. It promotes the same playstyle as the ratters use, it's despicable and those using it should have a risk of getting caught!

There are no doubt other mechanisms in EVE Online that would need an iteration or two, like safe-POSes etc. But the subject of this particular thread was cloaky gameplay, and I think AFK cloakers should not live risk-free! I want them to play actively, or stand a risk of loosing their ships.

But, you are not offering anything as a balance aspect for this increased chance of losing the cloaked side's ships.

This situation is often viewed as a stalemate for a very good reason. Neither side makes any progress against the other, and both remain intact as a result.

You want one side to exclusively have a disadvantage here.
As such, that would shift the balance in favor of the other side.

If we wanted null sov to actually be a safe place to PvE, we would have gates that actually lock, and block out entry the same way a POS has a reinforce timer. A blob could break through it the same way.

The game makes it harder for hostiles to penetrate sov null space, not impossible.
Changing things as you describe would make this even harder.
Seraph IX Basarab
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#439 - 2014-07-28 23:38:49 UTC
Emmy Mnemonic wrote:
Words


So you yourself admit you want to shoot AFK pilots. And you are calling others gankbears? Look who is talking.
Emmy Mnemonic
The Northerners
Northern Coalition.
#440 - 2014-07-29 07:01:00 UTC
I offer AFK cloakers to not be AFK and play actively as a tactic to avoid beeing detected and killed. I offer them the existing functionality of safelogging when afraid of the imposed risk of AFK cloaky detection. I also described a potential trick of pretending to be AFK while not being AFK, where much exiting gameplay could be had. Counter-counter-counter-drops! :-) And finally there is no need in the game for AFK cloaking, you can reach any of your goals by the multitude of other "tools" available allready in the game! It just requires that you are active and not AFK.

You seem to mix up cloaked with AFK cloaked! I dont see the need to change anything in the game concerning cloaked functions, only there is a need for a mechanic in EVE Online for players to impose a threat to AFK cloakers, because there should be no risk-free way of hiding for weeks and weeks by only logging on and hitting cloak-button after DT.

And Seraph - your consistant lack of arguments amuses me greatly! You have absolutely nada that supports your aversion to the suggestion, other than the potential threat to your current risk-free playstyle. Your fear of a fight shines through! And you squirm and troll more and more! Thats hillariuosly fun!

Ex ex-CEO of Svea Rike [.S.R.]