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Material Efficiency Refund?

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Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#61 - 2014-07-27 14:52:49 UTC
afkboss wrote:
Tippia wrote:
So in a time where you can save a ton of cash on setting up a POS in an unused system, but where you need to have your BPs in that POS and thereby put them at risk, a skills that (drastically) reduces the exposure time needed to get the job done is somehow “useless”?!

Ugh


For most people the limiting factor for the amount they build is the demand of the item or the availability of the materials. That is why a huge amount of people are not building 24/7 and will not be affected by the skill.

Material Efficiency was pretty much a mandatory skill that you needed to train to V for for any builder no matter if it was small quantity. This means Everyone had to train, it but the replacement skill will not mean anything to most of those people.

GM's like Greyscale do not understand that everyone plays the game differently and make changes that look good on a spreadsheet but screws over alot of players.

That's because your not doing it right. And I fail to see how 3% reduction across EVERY industrial activity will give you absolutely no benefit.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#62 - 2014-07-27 15:48:31 UTC
afkboss wrote:
For most people the limiting factor for the amount they build is the demand of the item or the availability of the materials.
…and this change rips huge chunks out of that limiting factor by letting you switch production more quickly to match the market swings. It benefits people who aren't building 24-7 just as much — perhaps even more — than those who do.

Quote:
Material Efficiency was pretty much a mandatory skill that you needed to train to V for for any builder no matter if it was small quantity. This means Everyone had to train, it but the replacement skill will not mean anything to most of those people.
This replacement skill will mean a lot to everyone and anyone who does industry: it can drastically lower their costs, it lowers their exposure, it reduces the need to do 24-7 building to have a stable income. If you're POS based, it does all three and benefits non-constant builders a lot more than it does 24-7 ones.

Quote:
GM's like Greyscale do not understand that everyone plays the game differently and make changes that look good on a spreadsheet but screws over alot of players.
This change doesn't screw anyone over.
Intermittent Fault
Punning Clan
#63 - 2014-07-27 22:50:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Intermittent Fault
Nikolai Lachance wrote:
SP refunds only occur if a skill is removed or otherwise made obsolete

The Material Efficiency skill reduced waste. Waste was removed from the game. The skill could not be any more obsolete.

Nikolai Lachance wrote:
...a comparable new skill to move the points to. The skill is still useful.

The new skill is not comparable. It reduces time, not material. Chalk and cheese.

Nikolai Lachance wrote:
Furthermore, you've benefitted from having that skill

Skill acquisition in Eve is supposed to be permanent, podkilling with an insufficient clone excepted. I invested the time in that skill in order to gain that skill permanently.

And CCP has negated most arguments against refunding these SPs by arbitrarily throwing free drone skill levels around (or trying to).
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2014-07-27 23:08:00 UTC
1.Yes, the skill has changed from one that was absolutely essential to train to V to be competitive in industry to a sort of "maybe throw a few ranks in it" level of minor usefulness. But that is EVE get over it.

2. Obsessing over your SP will send you blind.

3. No you cannot have a refund.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#65 - 2014-07-27 23:37:06 UTC
It's not the first time CCP has made a skill do something else and not refunded SP. I wouldn't expect them to do it this time either,

I spent 30 days training the 4 shield compensation skills to 5 because they helped with active shield hardeners. They removed that part of the skill and make them only affect passive hardeners. I never will use passive hardeners on this pilot. End result 30 days wasted training time.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#66 - 2014-07-28 04:46:39 UTC
Quote:
3. Ranting is prohibited.

A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents.

Thread closed.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department