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Fleet management needs improvements
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David Koen
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2014-07-26 18:16:26 UTC
Flying in fleets have some serious issue preventing fleets members to stay close to each other.

1. The first problem is locating your fleet members. Fleet window needs to provide information about your fleet mates location and ships they are using. It needs to be realtime with no delay like it is right now on star map. If some fleet members are docked it needs to show which station are they docked. So every fleet member can see where everyone is currently. For better flying toward your fleet members it needs to be set destination option available on your fleet mates context menu.

2. The whole fleet needs to move together, so the menu option 'warp to' needs to be disabled for fleet and squad leaders. They should be able to use only warp with members command preventing to collapse the whole fleet. Jumping through star gates for fleet and squad leaders needs to be enabled only if all other fleet/squad members are withing 50 km near this gate.
Paranoid Loyd
#2 - 2014-07-26 18:20:07 UTC
Or you could you know, talk to each other. Roll

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-07-26 20:25:43 UTC
No, no, no, and nope.

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik
General Nusense
Doomheim
#4 - 2014-07-26 20:28:13 UTC
David Koen wrote:
Flying in fleets have some serious issue preventing fleets members to stay close to each other.

1. The first problem is locating your fleet members. Fleet window needs to provide information about your fleet mates location and ships they are using. It needs to be realtime with no delay like it is right now on star map. If some fleet members are docked it needs to show which station are they docked. So every fleet member can see where everyone is currently. For better flying toward your fleet members it needs to be set destination option available on your fleet mates context menu.

2. The whole fleet needs to move together, so the menu option 'warp to' needs to be disabled for fleet and squad leaders. They should be able to use only warp with members command preventing to collapse the whole fleet. Jumping through star gates for fleet and squad leaders needs to be enabled only if all other fleet/squad members are withing 50 km near this gate.



Fleet management has recently been redone.

Your concerns are novel, but the information you are asking for is available for the FC of the fleet. You as a fleet member can ask in fleet chat or on your ts3 communication network. Personally I like the way it is. Information overload is easily achieved in Eve, unlike actually releasing a finished product with no bugs.

As for your number Two, well, that would take the individual out of the fleet. Why pay attention or actually listen when the FC can do the important stuff for you. Also it helps to have Squad commanders and Wing Commanders able to warp their sections of the fleets.

I am sure after playing Eve for a longer period of time, you will see what I am talking about newbr0.

Made a signature so I am taken seriously on the forums, since thats the only thing they are good for.
S'Way
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2014-07-26 21:06:47 UTC
David Koen wrote:

1. The first problem is locating your fleet members.

That's an easy one to solve:-
One's 28 jumps away coming in hot, a couple will be ratting in the belt / anoms while waiting for the rest, another is in station fitting a ship for a different doctrine....and a couple are in the next system because they thought someone said jump.
David Koen
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2014-07-27 03:27:45 UTC
General Nusense wrote:


Fleet management has recently been redone.

Your concerns are novel, but the information you are asking for is available for the FC of the fleet. You as a fleet member can ask in fleet chat or on your ts3 communication network. Personally I like the way it is. Information overload is easily achieved in Eve, unlike actually releasing a finished product with no bugs.

As for your number Two, well, that would take the individual out of the fleet. Why pay attention or actually listen when the FC can do the important stuff for you. Also it helps to have Squad commanders and Wing Commanders able to warp their sections of the fleets.

I am sure after playing Eve for a longer period of time, you will see what I am talking about newbr0.


Actually fleet commander does not desperately need information about members location, but members need it desperately because members come to leader but not leader comes to members. There is some kind of analogy with armies, let's say Napoleon army. He had commanders with flag and horn, so every soldier see the flag of its squad and follow the flag, this makes a possibility to manage the whole army.

The problem of eve - there is no flag which fleet members can follow, this makes fleets quite disorganized. As an ideal solution it would be an icon with your squad/fleet leader showing its status and exact location. You can click on in and choose set destination or warp to.
Riyria Twinpeaks
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-07-27 04:20:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Riyria Twinpeaks
David Koen wrote:
Flying in fleets have some serious issue preventing fleets members to stay close to each other.

1. The first problem is locating your fleet members. Fleet window needs to provide information about your fleet mates location and ships they are using. It needs to be realtime with no delay like it is right now on star map. If some fleet members are docked it needs to show which station are they docked. So every fleet member can see where everyone is currently. For better flying toward your fleet members it needs to be set destination option available on your fleet mates context menu.

2. The whole fleet needs to move together, so the menu option 'warp to' needs to be disabled for fleet and squad leaders. They should be able to use only warp with members command preventing to collapse the whole fleet. Jumping through star gates for fleet and squad leaders needs to be enabled only if all other fleet/squad members are withing 50 km near this gate.


1. Have an FC who tells you where the fleet is supposed to be. Fly with people who are disciplined enough to not fly wherever they want or dock up randomly or such silly things, and who speak up when they got separated from fleet somehow. When people need repairs at a station or things like that, speak up or say so in fleet chat. The FC can then plan accordingly, keeping the fleet in a system for a while until repairs and so on are done. And now you got a fleet which stays together. It's not magic.

2. No. This would make it impossible for a fleet or squad leader to, for example, warp to a tactical bookmark during a fight without messing up the whole squad or fleet. It'd make it awkward at best for a fleet to warp to a fight in stages, with logis warping in a few seconds later and at a different distance, as now the logi pilotes would have to cancel the fleet warp.
What if you need part of your squad to jump through a gate to catch an enemy on the other side, while you are finishing a ship on this side. How are you going to follow the rest of your squad for help once you are done when you can't jump?

Don't replace your brain with silly restrictions in the game, just because you don't want to think or pay attention. Especially if those restrictions are detrimental in tons of situations you might find yourself in.
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2014-07-27 06:33:32 UTC
David Koen wrote:
Actually fleet commander does not desperately need information about members location, but members need it desperately because members come to leader but not leader comes to members. There is some kind of analogy with armies, let's say Napoleon army. He had commanders with flag and horn, so every soldier see the flag of its squad and follow the flag, this makes a possibility to manage the whole army.

The problem of eve - there is no flag which fleet members can follow, this makes fleets quite disorganized. As an ideal solution it would be an icon with your squad/fleet leader showing its status and exact location. You can click on in and choose set destination or warp to.


Real world analogy for EvE, I love these. Let's see if we have tools for this. How to locate your squad and/or fleet commanders? You can at least try the following:
- Have the FC have a rallying point where you all gather before heading off
- Have people in voice comms
- Look at the map

How can this info be relayed you might ask? You can try these:
- Voice comms
- Linking a system in fleet chat
- Fleet MOTD having info

"Why is this guy in a Drake?" and other lovely questions:
- If it takes you less than 5 minutes to form up and be ready to go, there's a high chance you have a preset fleet composition, like "nano shield cruisers" and people just hop into thsoe
- If it takes more than 5 minutes, the FC can see exactly what people are sitting in
- You could always tell people to undock and warp to a pre-set safe or jsut hang at undock to see their ships

"But but my idea is the best idea in the world!"
- if full fleet information was given to every member, we'd have meta-gaming spies creaming their pants as they wouldn't need to do anything outside of joining a fleet, opening fleet info window and streaming it to whoever is paying them
- Information overload is a bad thing, the more people are engaging in a non-trivial task towards the same goal, the less the individual needs to know about the whole project; if everyone is the project leader, no one will make the sub-parts work
Dave Stark
#9 - 2014-07-27 07:35:25 UTC
David Koen wrote:
1. The first problem is locating your fleet members.


as some one who loves a good awoxing, i fully approve of this idea.
Yarda Black
The Black Redemption
#10 - 2014-07-27 07:41:40 UTC
David Koen wrote:
Flying in fleets have some serious issue preventing fleets members to stay close to each other


It happens. If you notice the same people screwing up all the time, you could try explaining things to them. Maybe nobody bothered to teach them. But there's going to be dudes who talk the talk but dont walk the walk.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-07-27 09:17:30 UTC
David Koen wrote:
Flying in fleets have some serious issue preventing fleets members to stay close to each other.

1. The first problem is locating your fleet members. Fleet window needs to provide information about your fleet mates location and ships they are using. It needs to be realtime with no delay like it is right now on star map. If some fleet members are docked it needs to show which station are they docked. So every fleet member can see where everyone is currently. For better flying toward your fleet members it needs to be set destination option available on your fleet mates context menu.

2. The whole fleet needs to move together, so the menu option 'warp to' needs to be disabled for fleet and squad leaders. They should be able to use only warp with members command preventing to collapse the whole fleet. Jumping through star gates for fleet and squad leaders needs to be enabled only if all other fleet/squad members are withing 50 km near this gate.


1. You never been FC obviously, as it's already there.

2. Why, you could of course....talk to each other and just listen to the FC.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2014-07-27 09:20:26 UTC
David Koen wrote:
General Nusense wrote:


Fleet management has recently been redone.

Your concerns are novel, but the information you are asking for is available for the FC of the fleet. You as a fleet member can ask in fleet chat or on your ts3 communication network. Personally I like the way it is. Information overload is easily achieved in Eve, unlike actually releasing a finished product with no bugs.

As for your number Two, well, that would take the individual out of the fleet. Why pay attention or actually listen when the FC can do the important stuff for you. Also it helps to have Squad commanders and Wing Commanders able to warp their sections of the fleets.

I am sure after playing Eve for a longer period of time, you will see what I am talking about newbr0.


Actually fleet commander does not desperately need information about members location, but members need it desperately because members come to leader but not leader comes to members. There is some kind of analogy with armies, let's say Napoleon army. He had commanders with flag and horn, so every soldier see the flag of its squad and follow the flag, this makes a possibility to manage the whole army.

The problem of eve - there is no flag which fleet members can follow, this makes fleets quite disorganized. As an ideal solution it would be an icon with your squad/fleet leader showing its status and exact location. You can click on in and choose set destination or warp to.



Uhm.

A. you know where the fleet departs.
B. You follow FC orders.

C. You will always be with the FC if you do A and B.


And in the rare case you are confused, you can just ask in fleet chat for the location which will likely be linked by 10 people in less then 4 seconds if you have a proper fleet with good people in it.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#13 - 2014-08-07 16:09:30 UTC
no wonder squids. are bad....they don't know where everybody in their fleet are!

yeah sorry for shitposting, having a bad day. :(

Just Add Water