Player Features and Ideas Discussion

as most know, command ships are most of the time used as OGB ships.
some of the requirements to fly them involve more or less heavy skilling into leadership.

ofcourse this does fit their role when used as an OGB, but not so much for anything else.
and that brings me to my proposal:

most t1 ships have 2 t2 variants, which are both used for a different role, or have different skill requirements/ ship bonusses.
the t2 line of the battlecruisers however all have the same role more or less. which is boosting a fleet. only a few are used as front line combat vessels.

lets take the gallante line as example, a t1 brutix becomes a t2 astarte, a t1 myrmidon becomes a t2 eos, both the eos and the astarte get similair bonusses to gang links.

why not keep the eos as it is, both in skill requirement and role/ship bonus, and make somehting new out of the astarte hull?

for example, remove the leadership skill requirements form the astarte, remove the command ship skillbook requirement and bonusses, and create a new skillbook, with new more combat focussed bonusses?
this way, we have a t2 battlecruiser that can be used for pvp, without screaming I HAZ LINKS PRIMI MEH.

keep the t2 damage ressist profile, but give it somehting new, something that does not require leadership skills to be used.
i just hope we can get a tech 2 battlecruiser that is more combat capable, with supporting fleets as a second seat, or none at all.

any people who see somehting in this?

also i know some people have problems with how ogb works, however this is not an ogb thread, so i wanna ask you to keep that out of this thread.

it could work, but it seems more easy to me, to remake, or "mess" with 4 ships, then making 4 to 8 more.
and because the bonus on both the eos and astarte ( and most command ships for that matter) are already nearly the same.

am i correct when i think you are pointing to the talos?
if so, problem with the talos is that it is already a special t1 ( called tier 3 i believe) that switches medium weapons out for large weapons, because this is already a special ship, i dont think making a t2 tier 3 would work, then it becomes a semi battleship with less Hp but higher ressists.....

Can't you already make an astarte into a rather nasty DPS ship? Same with a sleipnir, Vulture and...one or the other of the amarr ones, I forget.

You don't have to use it for the role it has on the box.

its going to be unfulfilled....tier 3 /abc bc introduction brought about balance issues to fill this gap already at a t1 level. Many of which not resolved fully. From a few lessons in the past ccp I feel has learned the lesson of do not bring in more balance breaking ships when they have balance issues already.

Thats lacking t2 features like resist profiles. Yes they are not t2....and have balance issues. Issues that won't be solved by tacking in second set of combat bonuses instead of boost. And don't say well t2 price....use limited by price has back fired on ccp too many times.

Prior to this you saw then tier 1 and 2 nerfed at varying points in the past. I'd be looking at cane. And drake. Direct (death of dual neut o cane by utility slot and just in case not enough....fitting grid changes) or indirect (trashing of HML as a weapons system) nerfs in short were put in place when tech 1 tier 1/2 overstepped their bounds.

CCP has a goal in mind for these ships...snd they aren' scared to trash say HML in the process to keep that goal. That was a far reaching indirect nerf imo....whole bunch of ships got a piece of that crap sandwich. Ships about as far from rating the title OP as you are going to get. Just don't see ccp making the t2 backdoor to bypass that to make a combat t2 drake if you find NH lacking in this area. With an even lower sp bar as it were not needing leadership skills.

If this was desired, and thought to be worthwhile as a concept, then would it not be simpler to remove the command and leadership skills as a requirement to fly the ships, and there for their actual roles only?

No need for new ships then, and much more available for more to use, and all the command and leadership skills are still there for boosting etc.

But the ships are pretty powerful, this does significantly reduce their availability.

CCP will need to decide, where they wish to see them in terms of numbers out there.

If I would like to be snotty I would say that I read:

Blabla ... repost .... blablabla ..... repost .... blabla .... didn't use SF .. blablabla ... didn't care ... bla bla ... repost ...

But I'd rather say: Would you like to join any of the other T2 BC and Commandship discussions ? Maybe you can bring a wind of fresh air into those stale complain threads.... unless this is one too ?!

I know its Low Sec here atm, with ISD being busy putting out fires in the feedback forums, but come on, show some empathy, understanding and discipline. At least 1/5 of the first 2 pages are reposts, does that have to bee this way ?

Let's just lay this out.

CBC's are not similar within faction groups right now. Eos focuses heavily on being a drone brawler, Astarte focuses heavily on being a medium to long range ship. Absolution is laser turrets, Damnation is missiles and drones. Claymore missiles, Sleipnir projectiles. Etc... So on...

Unless you think the weapons systems are cookie cutter and they're all the same after you hit F1, that's a pretty big distinction between the hulls.

There is nothing statistically wrong with the CBC hulls, even as small gang and solo PvP ships. They have great stats, they work well and people use them effectively. The motivation for just using them as OGB's is due to the training path being highly divergent from normal PvP training and multiple accounts being a fair norm for a lot of people. They're probably going to have multiple accounts anyways, they want great warfare link boosts, why not create a character and max out everything warfare links first, and keep training your PvP character for PvP?

ABC's do not need a T2 variant because there is no reasonable way to give their hulls T2 bonuses while maintaining balance.

HAC BC's already exist. Faction Police BC's pretty much match HAC's while exchanging speed for the decent tanks, and are the same cost.

Just stop staring at EFT/Pyfa and hypothesizing, and start looking at what's happening in the game to get an idea of what, if anything, needs to be changed with BC hulls. The focus on "Ermahgawd WL bonus' are such a waste for my min-maxing OCD" and a complete lack of "Sweet Jeebus these hulls have T3 tank and better damage application than most T3 setups for the same price and no skill loss." tells everyone exactly what is going on here.

Any other T2 BC that gets put in will still be called primary just as often as a booster, because they will be just as dangerous

my idea is totally different form the other posts about command ships.
and look, if you dont like what you read, then dont post? how about that? sounds easy eh?

Warp & agility fit a T3, it can keep up with Frig gangs.
Warp & agility fit a CS, it can keep up with Destroyer gangs.

And will have more EHP in both cases still simply due to innate hull