Science & Industry

Yea pretty much this. Anyone who thinks that Lowsec cap building will happen in a POS has serious illusions about this game.

'hey guys lets put a supercap on a moon in lowsec with a 24h timer and everyone with a dscanner can find it. I am sure none of the bored super pilots out there will jump on the opportunity'

I for one don't know anyone in Lowsec for whom that makes sense. As a cap builder it's either kiss the ring of one of two 0sec groups out get out of the market. I picked the 2nd option.

A Carrier/Dread production chain that is worth spending time on has 20b in ships and components in build at any time.
If you don't want to move a freighter for every carrier and two for every dread round. it will be on the same POS.

Yes I am painting a stupid example, but if I'm moving the ore/components/ships around after every step it turns building something into a logistics nightmare.

Given the choices the best one is not doing it anymore unless the margins explode .. which is rather unlikely seeing how alive Nullsec war is.

So today, I am a newish player, maybe 6 months experience in Eve.

So let's have a look today at the huge profits I can make building an Abaddon, if the UI is to be believed.

Sell price in Dodixie: 214 million, which + / - 5%, has been the price the last 3 months or so.
According to the UI, my material costs are 212 million, in station.
Of course, in a 0.5 system with what looks like a 50% index bar, I have slot costs of 8.7 million.
BTW, next door, the low sec system has slot costs of 5.9 million.
Oh look, I can shift my mfg operations ( no biggie moving freighters of mins, right?) one jump to another high sec system, and my slot costs are now only 5.0 million. What a bargain!

Hey wait! I can move my mfg production to Rancer and it is only 293 K to build an Abaddon. I am sure I can get large scale movements of minerals and product in and out of there easily.

Hmmm.....so it looks like building one ship is just not cost-effective for me anymore in station.
Guess I won't be building my own ships anymore, if I wanted to.

But, maybe it is better of I go hardcore, and try to build 20 ships?
Let's see what that does to my material cost. Not that I can afford it, but 4.236 billion / 20 ships = 212 million, still, and my slot costs per ship don't change.

Yup, if the UI is to be believed, I can't make even T1 battleships from a station anymore.

So if I don't have a POS, I am screwed as a new player.
Or the UI can't calculate accurate mineral costs, which makes it useless, for a new player.

Yeah CCP, your casual high sec builder is going to just love Crius.

I'm gonna wait and see how the market pans out but not having high hopes.

Anyone and their hamster can do manufacturing now, and with refining changes they won't notice they are doing it below mineral price, since that cap is gone down to 50%. My guess is the market will fluctuate favoring the station traders while all the new blood *think* they are making a profit since mined and refined minerals are free (tm)

A lot of people whining shouldn't have started production anyway, but it is pretty much an entire profession being removed, well, actually 2, since the mini profession of being a loot buyer/refiner is also gone - Replaced with skill-less drag&drop. Don't get me wrong, the new interface is great, and other professions have been shafted skill-wise, but this is entire gameplay removed.

So go ahead and ask for my stuff and tears, you wont be getting either but you will get my pity for not understanding the issue.

Reading comprehension really rox. You should try it sometime.

I and my corp aren't getting out of industry but we're paused for the moment to make sure the bugs shake out, and to re-evaluate where we're doing manufacturing and research. We have to figure out whether it's really worth it to pay for POS fuel every month, or whether we'd actually make more money if we just took the per-job hit by doing it in stations.

In the meantime, we're not producing anything new other than test runs. It means our income stream slows way down, but we'd rather do that than get into a mode where we throw a bunch of money away every month for no reason.

I was, and am all for boosting production in lowsec and 0.0 but my reasons for not moving there are still the same: security.

The large alliances who have already set up space and have logistics in order are the ones benefiting - from increased renters, who will still get shafted over politics.

I don't think so. System cost index afaik is directly proportional to sqrt(activity_in_system/activity_in_new_eden) =: cst_idx.
So
lim_{activity_in_new_eden -> activity_in_system} cst_idx -> 1

meaning: if you are the only one producing in your system and a lot of players bow out of industry, the cost index in your system will actually rise.

Still figuring it all out. I researched most of my BPOs prior to the change so they'd be ready, but working the new UI is a bit different. In general I like it, in specifics, I want better sort options/remembering settings as others have suggested. I'm not going to give up by any means, but I am more interested in watching for the supposed changes coming for invention, in the next couple of updates.

This x 3 internets