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Crime & Punishment

 
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Since when can corp members attack other corp members?
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Eldwinn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#21 - 2014-07-23 19:19:00 UTC
0/10. Going back to reading all the CODE spam on C&P now.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#22 - 2014-07-23 19:26:51 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
I just got blown up while ice mining because of you Mr. Lucas Kell. I've read this thread through and through. Your ill formed opinions and rantings are out of line. Continuing your rhetoric makes you no better than an awoxer. You are aware that you actions are harming innocents. Stop immediately. This should go no further.
0/10

And even if by some miracle someone has been blown up over this, do you really think I care?



So you reach out to the community AND profess you don't care??? (rummages through spare character bin looking for suitable awox alt).

All I can think to say at this moment is....


WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE Hoooo Hooooo
Mike Adoulin
Happys Happy Hamster Hunting Club
#23 - 2014-07-23 19:59:21 UTC
I've always said if you want people to have an incentive to leave NPC corps, make it economic.

I've always suggested doubling the tax rates for NPC corps and have them apply to EVERYTHING.

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
#24 - 2014-07-23 20:07:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Anne Dieu-le-veut
Seems to me it shouldn't be too hard to code it that anyone RRing someone in combat gets a LE timer. I mean, repairing a criminal gets you a criminal timer, yes?

TBH it wouldn't surprise me if the next HTFU nerf is removing firing on corp mates without getting CONCORDed, while leaving corp theft alive (for now...).

Bronson Hughes wrote:
So, you understand aggression mechanics well enough to be the CEO of a corp called "the bring back canflipping corp" which seems to specialize in playing Jita station games and/or whoring on Jita station kills, but you didn't know that corp members could shoot each other in hisec without warning or CONCORD interdiction?

I'm at a loss for words here....

EDIT: Lossmail or it didn't happen. I'm having a hard time believing your story.



This!
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#25 - 2014-07-23 20:18:08 UTC
This has been, around like, for ages, guy. It is, intended gameplay by, CCP.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#26 - 2014-07-23 20:35:55 UTC
Gustav Mannfred wrote:
I want warn you of an exploiting player, who joins your corp, scans you down and can legally attack you without concord. He first joined my corporation, then he scanned me down in Barkrik and came with a paladin and attacked me without concord came and killed him.

So, I lost a Vargur with almost one billion isk worth of fitting.

However, for me, it seems like an exploit, because, normally to attack another player, you need to be in the same corporation and same fleet, in order to attack another one without getting concorded. That guy swiches from corporation to corporation and hunts for mission runners. This is for me also abusing the game mechanics to gain isk. We werent in a duel and i didnt had a suspect or criminal flag, that allowed him to legally attack me.


Is that normal, that corp members can legally attack each other even without beeing in the same fleet? What is more, I also didnt got a duel flag to him. So my first thought, when he started shooting me, was to kick him off of the corp, so that then concord attacks. But it was already too late. When i kicked him off when he started shooting me, would then concord have attacked him?


Corp members have always been able to shoot each other. He's not abusing any game mechanics, just your trust, and that's your fault not CCP's.

Once he was shooting at you, there was nothing you could do but defend yourself. You cannot kick players from your corporation while they are in space (the game won't let you). This has to do with how the game determines standings and who can shoot at whom. Without a session change you would get weird things happening like him being able to shoot you, but you getting concorded for defending yourself. It's not ideal, but it's currently a programing necessity (apparently, I'm not a programmer). But yeah, corp members have always been allowed to shoot each other, and it doesn't generate any flags.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#27 - 2014-07-23 20:45:15 UTC
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Actually, I think RR should go suspect if you rep a corp mate attacking another corpmate.

Right now RR can freely help the awoxer.

Dunno how big a fix that would be but it will certainly make the awoxer think twice if he has to risk loosing a RR boat.

I don't think removing corp killing will bring in NPC chars since those same people also want wardecs to go away. Just add sufficient risk to the awoxer.


As an awoxer, I would have no problem with that. It's true that RR makes awoxing way to easy and safe.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
General Nusense
Doomheim
#28 - 2014-07-23 20:52:22 UTC
Gustav Mannfred wrote:
I want warn you of an exploiting player, who joins your corp, scans you down and can legally attack you without concord. He first joined my corporation, then he scanned me down in Barkrik and came with a paladin and attacked me without concord came and killed him.

So, I lost a Vargur with almost one billion isk worth of fitting.

However, for me, it seems like an exploit, because, normally to attack another player, you need to be in the same corporation and same fleet, in order to attack another one without getting concorded. That guy swiches from corporation to corporation and hunts for mission runners. This is for me also abusing the game mechanics to gain isk. We werent in a duel and i didnt had a suspect or criminal flag, that allowed him to legally attack me.


Is that normal, that corp members can legally attack each other even without beeing in the same fleet? What is more, I also didnt got a duel flag to him. So my first thought, when he started shooting me, was to kick him off of the corp, so that then concord attacks. But it was already too late. When i kicked him off when he started shooting me, would then concord have attacked him?


its amazing how someone who has been playing eve as long as you have dont understand the basic game mechanics of Eve Online.

Made a signature so I am taken seriously on the forums, since thats the only thing they are good for.
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2014-07-23 20:52:38 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Maybe it should be, though it's arguable that security can ever be that tight. Sad fact is though mate, that's NOT the end result. The end result is that the vast majority of highsec players are in solo/alt corps and NPC corps. More awoxing won't make that better.

Then how is it that I have absolutely NO trouble finding corps to awox? If what you say is true, then finding corps to awox should actually be getting harder, and I assure you, it is not.

I really don't think that removing awoxing would reduce the number of people in npc corps, as I really do not believe that is the primary reason so many remain there. In fact a bigger reason, in my understanding, is not having to worry about war decs. In reality, there is no advantage to being in a corp other than the ability to anchor structures for the corp, and maybe corp hangars. Every other function of corporations can be met in other ways.

If you want to bring people into player corporations, the entire corporation mechanic needs a complete overhaul and a setup which provides incentive to be in, and remain in, a player corporation, whether you plan on having anchored assets or not. Until that happens, many people will remain in NPC corps as they see no benefit to leaving.

I highly doubt awoxing has nearly the effect you are describing.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#30 - 2014-07-23 20:59:15 UTC
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Actually, I think RR should go suspect if you rep a corp mate attacking another corpmate.

Right now RR can freely help the awoxer.

Dunno how big a fix that would be but it will certainly make the awoxer think twice if he has to risk loosing a RR boat.

I don't think removing corp killing will bring in NPC chars since those same people also want wardecs to go away. Just add sufficient risk to the awoxer.

Totally agree, but what would determine if a corp mate is fighting another corp mate? Is there a limited engagement associated with intra-corp combat? I think the only way to implement this is to have corp members go suspect if they attack other corp members. which I'm not sure that people want.


I don't know about going suspect right away all the time, seems a little extreme, and would make web slinging freighters annoying cause you'd have to keep dueling each other. There does need to be a fix of some kind though. I don't actually have a good answer to what it should be, but if I'm awoxing someone, and I'm using reps, my victims should be able to call for help and freely attack my logi boats. Whatever mechanical way that gets handled would be fine by me.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
Eldwinn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#31 - 2014-07-23 21:48:03 UTC
Yeah let's feed this more. The guy is part of a corporation referencing can flipping. What more of a hint did you meed?
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#32 - 2014-07-23 22:12:45 UTC
Tengu Grib wrote:
I really don't think that removing awoxing would reduce the number of people in npc corps, as I really do not believe that is the primary reason so many remain there. In fact a bigger reason, in my understanding, is not having to worry about war decs. In reality, there is no advantage to being in a corp other than the ability to anchor structures for the corp, and maybe corp hangars. Every other function of corporations can be met in other ways.
Wardecs give you a 24 hour warning at which time you can make yourself ready for them or avoid them entirely. Awoxers you can't and yet they affect you in the same way.

Tengu Grib wrote:
If you want to bring people into player corporations, the entire corporation mechanic needs a complete overhaul and a setup which provides incentive to be in, and remain in, a player corporation, whether you plan on having anchored assets or not. Until that happens, many people will remain in NPC corps as they see no benefit to leaving.
No matter what setup they put in place, no mater how many punishments they put on players in NPC corps, the best you will get is people in altcorps. All the time some random member of your corp can undo what is often months of work for a normal highseccer, they'll have no reason to put themselves at risk. And if they push to hard to force pilots to put themselves at risk of being ganked, they will simply quit.

You might like it, and the game may work well with unwanted combat, but a lot of highsec players don't want to have to get ganked and replace everything they've worked to achieve with no chance to defend themselves. And no matter how many times people say "oh vet your members", that doesn't help when line member A gets randomly ganked by line member B, since they had nothing to do with recruitment.

Tengu Grib wrote:
I highly doubt awoxing has nearly the effect you are describing.
Then continue awoxing. But don't let me see you crying about risk averse highseccers. You want them to be your fodder so you don't have to work for easy kills, well the flipside to that is people don't want to risk playing with others in case they turn out to be people like you.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#33 - 2014-07-23 22:13:14 UTC
Personally I think that remote reps should inherit any limited engagement timers that the person they are repping has.

"suspect" flag status is almost universally not for active module activation. Nor is repping an inherently hostile act in and of itself. But I do agree that remote reps need worked on. (I also think that reps in general need savagely nerfed, as I hold them responsible for the all or nothing fleet combat that is around these days, but still)

To the OP, L2Background check.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#34 - 2014-07-23 22:27:01 UTC
Eldwinn wrote:
Yeah let's feed this more. The guy is part of a corporation referencing can flipping. What more of a hint did you meed?


The thread no longer belongs to the OP.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#35 - 2014-07-23 22:52:44 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Wardecs give you a 24 hour warning at which time you can make yourself ready for them or avoid them entirely. Awoxers you can't and yet they affect you in the same way.
So you want to get rid of corporate espionage? One goes, the other goes with it. If CCP were to patch awoxing then the awoxers would just take their time and steal everything that isn't tied down and empty the wallet. Course sometimes they do that as it is. Eve is a PVP game of intrigue and espionage, awoxing is part of that. Deal with it.

Lucas Kell wrote:
You might like it, and the game may work well with unwanted combat, but a lot of highsec players don't want to have to get ganked and replace everything they've worked to achieve with no chance to defend themselves. And no matter how many times people say "oh vet your members", that doesn't help when line member A gets randomly ganked by line member B, since they had nothing to do with recruitment.
Then member A should talk to his CEO as ultimately it is the CEO's responsibility who is being allowed into the corporation. If the CEO doesn't take responsibility, then you should probably find a new corporation anyways. Awoxing reveals the true nature of poorly managed corporations. If anything awoxers are doing a service by identifying badly operated corporations.

Lucas Kell wrote:
Then continue awoxing. But don't let me see you crying about risk averse highseccers. You want them to be your fodder so you don't have to work for easy kills, well the flipside to that is people don't want to risk playing with others in case they turn out to be people like you.

I intend to, and to the second part, if you don't want to play with others because you might get blown up, why are you playing Eve at all? That's the whole point of Eve, you can be blown up at any time. (Not necessarily you specifically, but in general)

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
Puppy Eating
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2014-07-23 23:07:46 UTC
I guess this answers a question I was going to ask.

Apparently a freighter will align/warp faster if it's being webbed, but I thought webbing another ship would be a hostile action, and make you criminal/concorded so that didn't make sense to me.

So making the OP's suggested change would make multi-billion isk cargo freighters MORE vulnerable to hisec ganking indirectly.

Correct?

What would make logical sense to me is corpmate vs. corpmate being illegal, but fleetmates can shoot/web/etc. each other. If I stab the guy sitting next to me here at work, the cops are gonna get involved, not just the company security staff. But if we are playing football, I can tackle him.
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#37 - 2014-07-24 00:38:56 UTC
Puppy Eating wrote:
I guess this answers a question I was going to ask.

Apparently a freighter will align/warp faster if it's being webbed, but I thought webbing another ship would be a hostile action, and make you criminal/concorded so that didn't make sense to me.

So making the OP's suggested change would make multi-billion isk cargo freighters MORE vulnerable to hisec ganking indirectly.

Correct?

What would make logical sense to me is corpmate vs. corpmate being illegal, but fleetmates can shoot/web/etc. each other. If I stab the guy sitting next to me here at work, the cops are gonna get involved, not just the company security staff. But if we are playing football, I can tackle him.


No.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2014-07-24 01:24:31 UTC
Puppy Eating wrote:
I guess this answers a question I was going to ask.

Apparently a freighter will align/warp faster if it's being webbed, but I thought webbing another ship would be a hostile action, and make you criminal/concorded so that didn't make sense to me.

So making the OP's suggested change would make multi-billion isk cargo freighters MORE vulnerable to hisec ganking indirectly.

Correct?

What would make logical sense to me is corpmate vs. corpmate being illegal, but fleetmates can shoot/web/etc. each other. If I stab the guy sitting next to me here at work, the cops are gonna get involved, not just the company security staff. But if we are playing football, I can tackle him.


Your going to open a completely new can of worms if you allow fleet mates to engage each other. Incursion killing will become a new fad.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Don Purple
Snuggle Society
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#39 - 2014-07-24 01:36:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Don Purple
******* crying xD
lol.
lol.

Thanks OP.

Snuggles,
Don.

I am just here to snuggle and do spy stuff.
Puppy Eating
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2014-07-24 03:58:55 UTC
So Fleetmates can't attack each other, but Corpmates can?