Science & Industry

Hello fellow travellers Been playing eve now since 2004, love the game, member for a PVE/Industrial corp for the most part, 10 years in the game, and you think you've seen it all. Back in the day they nerfed Missiles, ah I remember when the Raven was so awesome, and then they nerfed NOS and Neuts, but again we as a people united and figured out new ways to counter both of these nerfs, and all other nerfs to hit new Eden, in the last 10 + years, but finally they nerfed Mining/Research/building/development, way to go guys, I want to put a different word in here if you know what I mean... I mean I should have seen this coming, what with CCP nerfing missions like Enemies Abound, and other such good mining worth missions, or when it became so easy to overpower a HULK, and then we all thought they'd fixed that but I still see Exhumers popping on a daily basis... I know that all these things were done because you wanted the average player to experience more things with the EVE universe, so Scanning, which had been subbed for such a long time became the forefront of the EVE game and its made the game for most more fun and exciting, all the while this was all going along, your Industrialist out there were running missions to pay for the harder minerals you needed to build Capital through Interceptor ships for the masses, because regardless how you look at the game, the common denominator is this is a Market and building backend game.
And now you've nerfed that part... I can accept certain things, you want people out of the security of the station, and using POSs and other self-made structures, but making users put all of their eggs in the unstable basket puts the entire system in jeopardy..
Different if you've done the foolish thing of flying all your ships and stuff to NULL to find that what was promised to you wasn’t there and you have to start over, that’s one thing, but now it feels like you want us to do the same in hi sec or where ever, and because you had no internet for a week come back to find your POS in ruins and everything that you’ve been working towards for the last XXX + years gone... and for what? I can even accept all of this, it’s the game dynamic, but why would you nerf reprocess/refine, what’s this 50% BS, or in my case, max skills and i have 10.00 standings with the station that i am in and i get 55%, it used to be you got 50% with the basic refine skills and then, with working standings with the faction you were with this increased your reprocess/refine up to 99.5 or 100% depending if the station you were working with was base 25 or 50%. I get that some things might look good on paper for the average CCP / Capsular, and that certain parts of the market have been out of whack for a while now, but by pissing off the industrialist, who in my mind is the backbone and driving force of this game, and nerfing things that we industrialists have been striving towards, doesn’t make any sense… unless the plan is that NPC stations are going to produce ships again, and not players, but I thought the driving force behind this game was the eventuality of players being able to build everything in the game no matter where it is…
For example, the average player regardless if it’s a mission runner or player attacker, wants his ship and modules for the lowest price he can get them for, this new infrastructure adds so many hidden costs to the builder and provider of these ships, that the cost to the beginner or veteran player is going to prevent the risk takers to take those risks… If the cost of the average Lv4 storyline mission runner, flying a Tengu T2 fitted was getting it for 3 to 400mill and now has to spend 5 to 600 mill to run a T1 fitted boat, and not getting all the stuff he needs its like not just hindering the system that we have all grown accustomed to and love but in my mind its killing it…
Unless there are some new skills that you are going to release that will fix these crazy costs for research and development or, manufacturing and refining, but then, what was the point of players grinding missions to get Efficient standings with the likes of Amarr Navy, was it only to get LP, LP from Amarr corps alas is pretty lame, so what then was the point of players building up standings with faction corps if not to drop the charges for running jobs, renting and reprocessing/refining? Alas what is the point, I’m at a loss… And in my mind, knowing that I can provide ships from the highly researched BPOs I have, but knowing I cant provide them to people as the cost associated has been overscaled so much, then what is the point, what would you have us do, all go into the fray, a mass war, PVPiers destroy everything and even themselves and not be able to afford replacement ships…?
I know it’s a bit of a rant but maybe someone here and can help me see the point… Ive not really touched base of the research and Dev part of things, but I ask you what was wrong with the previous way that indy was?

I totally agree. I too was hoping that the changes wouldn't be so drastic. There are some good things like the new UI on balance. But it will be completely useless if there is a hefty disincentive to actually use it. - i.e. make or research anything owing to the job installations costs being insane.

I know people will say that it will all balance out owing to market forces in time. It may do but it will be a long time before the job costs that I'm contending with in a quiet NPC-industry-facility-free hisec system well away from Jita even start to become anywhere near economic again owing to a very much needed hike in sell prices.

From current numbers, I estimate that there will need to be at least a 100% increase in sell prices before I start another manufacturing job. And that probably just to break even with a (pre-Crius) maxed out for ME freighter BPO.

edit: oh, it'll actually be a lot more than 100% - I was forgetting the job install costs for making all of the components as well. This surely is a bug and was not intended?

Why would you RnD a chimera to Me 10?

Anyhow, the more incompetent producers quit, the more profit there is for the rest of us

The install cost for the final run of an archon out of a pos in a near deaf system was going to run me 1.2bill if this is how it is all around so much for smaller corps affording to field capitals

Research job costs were not being calculated correctly, we are fixing them in the patch today.

Because 10ME is max research ME for the Chimera
BPO ME TE
REVELATION 6 2
ARCHON 8 2
PROVIDENCE 15 0
PHOENIX 8 2
CHIMERA 7 2
CHARON 19 0
MOROS 7 2
THANATOS 10 2
OBELISK 16 2
ORCA 6 2
RORQUAL 8 0
NAGLFAR 8 2
NIDHOGGUR 9 2
FENRIR 15 0
Numbers under ME and TE are max research so least use of parts...

Didn't you seed the algorithms with past build stats?

Correct me if im wrong, but now it will be even more attractive own a POS with manufacturing facilities if NPC station costs are skyrocketing?

Currently it rather looks like a blank start. Systems with only a handful of new jobs instantly skyrocket in terms of their respective job cost index. I had hoped for some adjustments during today's downtime, but apparently the ****** status quo remains.

Could CCP please clarify whether that mess was intentional or did they simply mess up the collection of job data prior to crius release in order to properly seed the algorithm? And how long exactly does the algorithm need to produce meaningful cost indices that reflect the real workload in the universe?

If they have the related skills to 5, and a 4% implant, they will get the same now, as they did in the past.

It's just that now it's possible to get more, if you have access to an advanced facility.