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Is anyone bowing out of Industry with these new changes?

First post
Author
Edward Perry
Signs of Life
#41 - 2014-07-23 02:13:53 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
The spreadsheets are vastly simpler now. A huge improvement, I just updated my entire ore processing, and if you have a build cost spreadsheet of more than about 10 BPO's I hope you do an SDE import rather than manually entering all the values (Something I need to learn to do)
Researching BPO's hasn't really changed
And if you did invention T2 shouldn't have had significant actual changes either though the ME numbers look different.

As for doing it in parts, compared to the grand scheme of changes this is just a small part, Invention is next, and then POS management & corp roles, and I'd really rather than not take six years to roll through just those three stages.


I am not so worried about the details, and any one of the issues I had all have a simple resolution or can be explained. It is just a lot of work/stuff to have to address.

but regardless how someone defends/explains the changes it still means I have to relearn and challenge my past assumtions. I guess that can be a good things.

Oh left one thing out. I still don't get this TEAM's thing I have read it like 2 times in the last month. I don't get why there is auctions, and the whole purpose of them. But I guess I'll get to it when I look how I do research now

Cry

Edward Perry
Signs of Life
#42 - 2014-07-23 02:19:14 UTC
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:
Yeah, I suppose my CEO and I have no one but ourselves to blame, I guess we didnt read enough. I thought that everyone was going to be sitting at 72% and that was that, and that if I had perfect yesterday I would have the "new perfect" today.

A while back we formed a "daughter corporation" and filled it with an Orca booster and miners. We would buy the ice and ore from the miners, and use our then-perfect refines to churn a small profit which went into our SRP fund. We're either going to have to find a way to change the business model slightly, or put up the cash up-front to keep buying the ore to keep our miners happy whilst we stockpile it till one of us gets an alt or our mains back to "perfect" refines.

UGH Oops





Yah read those 6 or seven Blogs each which was multiple pages, of the changes they were speculating on making, and the detail that was never exact.

Yah should have seen it coming and gotten out sooner.
Barakkus
#43 - 2014-07-23 02:20:09 UTC
Seriously I have to pay to run jobs at my own POS now? REALLY? REALLY? In addition to that I have to go buy a bunch of different labs now? REALLY? So paying for fuel costs wasn't enough, I have to actually pay to do my research...7 years of researching for near perfect ME on tons of BPOs all for nothing....REALLY?

http://youtu.be/yytbDZrw1jc

Edward Perry
Signs of Life
#44 - 2014-07-23 02:22:24 UTC
Barakkus wrote:
Seriously I have to pay to run jobs at my own POS now? REALLY? REALLY? In addition to that I have to go buy a bunch of different labs now? REALLY? So paying for fuel costs wasn't enough, I have to actually pay to do my research...7 years of researching for near perfect ME on tons of BPOs all for nothing....REALLY?


oh and don't forget about hiring teams in an auction to help your research for a category of one item, that you only get for a limited time
Paynus Maiassus
Capital Munitions
Capital Interstellar Group
#45 - 2014-07-23 02:26:16 UTC
Edward Perry wrote:
I personally have canceled all my subscriptions on 4 accounts (unfortunately they are paid up for 3 to 6 more months) so I will be forced to stick around.

While I understand I have to re-lean the ins and outs of manufacturing. It seems like a lot that these changes have forced on us
  • Rebuild my spreadsheets to manage my operation.
  • Figure out how these changes impact the way I do things.
  • Maybe require me to move systems.
  • Change how I research BPO's
  • Throw out all my assumptions on how much things cost
  • Throw out all the knowledge on what is worth manufacturing
  • take a second look at t2 manufacturing
  • Look in to alcamey (sp) and reactions as those have changed too
  • Oh, figure out how much it costs to Jump the JF and Rorq since the changed consumption and size of isotopes


  • I think CCP could have done this in a more iterative process as they suggested by having lots of little releases. But this is like their old process of BIG changes all at once. I don't get their development strategy. They say one thing and do what they always have done.

    I think my biggest beef is that If they ever made this drastic of changes to Combat, the game would be dead. (Sorry Ship re-balancing does not compare) . It would be like them saying we are going to get rid of Missiles and make them mortars, Change Lasers to WaveMotion Cannon's, ammo will no longer be needed but you have to pay X aurum(sp) per shot. oh and High sec got converted to NULL (though it feels that way sometimes anyway), and we got rid of docking up.

    Not happy, with all the changes so fast (after no changes for as long as I can remember) . I'll finish what is in the pipeline and then take a break. Don't know if I will come back do what I was doing or what. I might just play to the end of my subscriptions and be done, it has been a good 6 years


    Goodbye. Thanks for playing.
    Kesker
    The Sagan Clan
    #46 - 2014-07-23 03:22:04 UTC
    Nevyn Auscent wrote:
    The spreadsheets are vastly simpler now. A huge improvement, I just updated my entire ore processing, and if you have a build cost spreadsheet of more than about 10 BPO's I hope you do an SDE import rather than manually entering all the values (Something I need to learn to do)
    Researching BPO's hasn't really changed
    And if you did invention T2 shouldn't have had significant actual changes either though the ME numbers look different.

    As for doing it in parts, compared to the grand scheme of changes this is just a small part, Invention is next, and then POS management & corp roles, and I'd really rather than not take six years to roll through just those three stages.



    They should have started with POS management and corp roles.

    Frankly, I'm not happy with CCP's efforts in market manipulation and the industry changes. They have all but killed the profession.

    Time for a break on this toon. I'll let the subscription go idle till it all shakes out and take another look. As I see it now, it's a mess. Way over complicated the entire thing. I'm not sure why either.
    Kesker
    The Sagan Clan
    #47 - 2014-07-23 03:27:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Kesker
    Edward Perry wrote:
    Barakkus wrote:
    Seriously I have to pay to run jobs at my own POS now? REALLY? REALLY? In addition to that I have to go buy a bunch of different labs now? REALLY? So paying for fuel costs wasn't enough, I have to actually pay to do my research...7 years of researching for near perfect ME on tons of BPOs all for nothing....REALLY?


    oh and don't forget about hiring teams in an auction to help your research for a category of one item, that you only get for a limited time



    Industry.. the ever less profitable profession.

    I think I read somewhere that CCP found that most ships were selling at approximately 5% profit margins. I believe they think that 5% profit margins is acceptable for all production.

    Now, that makes me wonder what their share holders, or investors, would think if they turned only a 5% profit...



    I still don't get the teams thing either. Stupid!

    Bunch of wasted SP and time. Autopay subscription is off.
    Lady Naween
    Ministry of War
    Amarr Empire
    #48 - 2014-07-23 03:32:01 UTC
    I resubbed my industry alt tbh. I like the new changes and while it will take me a while to get my spreadsheets updated it shouldn't be too much of a hassle.
    Kurt Swift
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #49 - 2014-07-23 03:32:37 UTC
    Barakkus wrote:
    Seriously I have to pay to run jobs at my own POS now? REALLY? REALLY? In addition to that I have to go buy a bunch of different labs now? REALLY? So paying for fuel costs wasn't enough, I have to actually pay to do my research...7 years of researching for near perfect ME on tons of BPOs all for nothing....REALLY?



    I have to agree that paying for jobs at a "player owned starbase", on top of fuel costs, is complete BS. This will cause me to have to re-evaluate my operation. Over all though, I like the changes to the UI. It's still a bit buggy, but I think it will be good once it gets ironed out. Thankfully, I am flexible, and my operation is adaptable. I designed it that way, so as not to put too many eggs into one basket.

    I know a few people will disagree with me here, and the ones who are hurt the most are rightfully vocal about it. But, I never did see the point in researching BPO's all the way to absolutely perfect. In my opinion, there reaches a point of diminishing returns, where it makes more sense to spend your valuable research slots on researching a new BPO, rather than spending a year researching a blueprint to save 1,000 isk per run. I'm glad CCP did away with unlimited ME potential, and changed it to a simpler system.

    I lost time and money on the changes. I think we all did. But, I think the changes are good for the game in the long run.
    RonPaul Rox
    Federal Defense Union
    Gallente Federation
    #50 - 2014-07-23 03:40:22 UTC  |  Edited by: RonPaul Rox
    in time, i expect these changes to be mitigated by ppl putting a production pos in each system, all over high sec. maybe this is what ccp wanted?

    Ps.
    Why are u guys using spreadsheets? just wait for the new isk per hour to release, it's amazing

    http://imgur.com/EGjYLSL

    Lady Naween
    Ministry of War
    Amarr Empire
    #51 - 2014-07-23 04:19:33 UTC
    RonPaul Rox wrote:
    in time, i expect these changes to be mitigated by ppl putting a production pos in each system, all over high sec. maybe this is what ccp wanted?

    Ps.
    Why are u guys using spreadsheets? just wait for the new isk per hour to release, it's amazing


    because i use spreadsheets for other things that isk per hour doesnt do for me. keeping track of copies, what blueprints i need to get next, and a few other things. oh and who in my corp has borrowed what bpo ^^ i would forget it if i didnt write it down
    afkboss
    Imperial Academy
    Amarr Empire
    #52 - 2014-07-23 04:57:10 UTC
    Given time the market will adjust itself and prices will increase to reflect the extra costs of building. But its going to be s*** for a while until that happens.
    Dread Nanana
    Doomheim
    #53 - 2014-07-23 06:15:21 UTC
    Kesker wrote:

    I think I read somewhere that CCP found that most ships were selling at approximately 5% profit margins. I believe they think that 5% profit margins is acceptable for all production.

    Now, that makes me wonder what their share holders, or investors, would think if they turned only a 5% profit...

    I still don't get the teams thing either. Stupid!

    Bunch of wasted SP and time. Autopay subscription is off.


    You do realize that CCP does not determine profit margin, but the buyers? If costs go up, you pass them to the consumer. If you can't, don't build that thing until consumer is willing to pay covering your desired margins.

    Ten Bulls
    Sons of Olsagard
    #54 - 2014-07-23 06:48:12 UTC
    Its all part of CCP's war on solo players.

    They want us hauling valuable cargo and tower to far flung systems so we can be hunted. They want us to anchor big piñatas in space for wardecers to shoot. We are supposed to be content.

    But its not all downside, we dont have to click as much in some situations.

    Oxide Ammar
    #55 - 2014-07-23 07:25:19 UTC
    Hope Alar wrote:
    At this point I am far too invested into industry. I could sell all of my bpos I supppose, but it would take a lot of time. I am going to take a brief hiatus from industry though and see where the dust settles. For now, I am going to start up some heavy PI.


    Same here, the installation cost ****** up everything for everyone. these insane fees plus POS fuel cost is punch in the face.
    GG CCP.

    Lady Areola Fappington:  Solo PVP isn't dead!  You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.

    Vartan Sarkisian
    Nobody in Local
    Of Sound Mind
    #56 - 2014-07-23 09:17:54 UTC
    I am not sure what to do yet, I have over 200 BPOs, most researched to perfect ME and TE, with a few exceptions. And I have a lot of SP invested into Industry.

    However yesterday I looked to get one of the few BPOs that I have up to perfect TE, from 0, apparently it would cost 28 million, and 66 days, all for a T1 destroyer so not impressed on that side of things.

    I guess I will wait and see how it pans out, they won’t reimburse the SP to me so that route is not available. I could sell the BPOs but I am in no rush to do so. If it is indeed an utter clusterfuck and is screwing with the game and losing subs. Then CCP will have to do something about it.
    Koitex
    Brutor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #57 - 2014-07-23 09:53:34 UTC
    What i have seen so far is an abomination at an attempt to placate the players with the new industry changes.

    Yeah the costing changes will make it easier for the lone builders but. that Looks to be the only change benefit.

    I can no longer differentiate my BPO`s from any other persons BPO`s so i have pulled them before others start scream that thats there one ETC. i have already lost 1 BPO to this new system. Dissipated so the paper trail is already to long to consider the headache of chasing it down. ME/PE used to be a signature. that Signature. i have lost. **** You CCP eat this post..

    The changes are just another CCP move to have to re-educate ourselves and another hit on the long standing players.

    Seriously CCP you seem to want only a bunch of Kids playing the game now ? WOT next free Plex time for under 12`s who knows .

    Well i calculated. that i spend by playing around £140 per month to play eve. That`s a £1680 market to CCP. per annum

    Well thank you i can save soo Much now I can save £120 a month i don`t need all the toons to build anymore.

    I saw nothing in Recompense for the whole year i spent researching my BPO`s to there previous signature level in HS.

    Not impressed at all.

    Cya CCP no more money from me :-)
    Velicitia
    XS Tech
    #58 - 2014-07-23 10:29:14 UTC
    Kirkwood Ross wrote:
    R.I.P. my perfect dreadnaught bpos.


    ^this.

    One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

    Nadine Jones
    Holes with Worms
    #59 - 2014-07-23 11:27:42 UTC
    Quote:
    Is anyone bowing out of Industry

    No, but I hope many do.
    The market will inevitably catch up with the higher production costs. Until then my production is mostly on hold and I use the time to build shiny new spreadsheets.
    If people quit because they are impatient it's only better for those of us who don't. Blink
    Aria Jimbojohnson
    University of Caille
    Gallente Federation
    #60 - 2014-07-23 12:07:30 UTC
    I kind of think it was too late in the game's life cycle for them to change research the way they did, while allowing everyone to keep their perfect BPOs. It basically makes the research system a huge, huge problem for new people trying to get into industry, while making it mostly useless for people who played before the changes. It just doesn't seem like it will work with so many perfect BPOs in circulation.