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What's the verdict?
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Debra Scully
Imperial Phoenix Legion
#1 - 2014-07-21 17:13:15 UTC
I run a small POS with 2 mobile labs that I run 10 research jobs 24/7. The only reason I currently do this is because ME slots typically have 30+ day waits in my home system. I don't care about the time bonuses I'll be getting with my labs vs NPC stations, and my understanding is I still pay a 10% tax on jobs even in my POS with this patch. I make my own POS fuel, so there's not much out of pocket, but I could be selling the PI stuff, fuel blocks, and/or ice components instead.

Will it be worth me keeping my POS?
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#2 - 2014-07-21 17:59:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
If you make 10 times more from your POS operations than the value of the fuel you use to run it, then keep the POS. Otherwise, its better to sell the ice and PI, and move the POS operation stuff to a station.

Edit: Also note you can make stuff faster at a POS, so, you may need more pilots to get the volume you are getting now, if you switch to a station. If that means a extra account, you may want to use the POS even if you do not meet the above 10X value multiplier.

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Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#3 - 2014-07-21 19:19:52 UTC
You don't pay a 10% NPC cost on any industry or research activities at a POS, all you'll pay is the job installation costs, which scale with the industrial activity of the system you're in (i.e. if you're in a crowded system, costs are higher), and, of course, fuel costs. You also save time and, for production at least, materials.

After Crius, you'll only ever need one of any lab or array online at a time (unless you are using them for storage) because slots are going away. Your only limit with even a single lab will be the number of jobs your skills allow you to run.

Keeping a POS up purely for research being "worth it" post-Crius will depend on a few factors. If your POS is in a system with no NPC labs or factories and not many moons (i.e. low volume), your install costs would be trivial, whereas if you're in a system with multiple NPC labs and lots of moons (i.e. high volume), they could be painfully high.

If you branch out into industry (material savings could be valuable) or mining (higher refine rates at a POS, not to mention ore compression), I'd say it's more likely to be worth it.

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Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#4 - 2014-07-21 19:32:49 UTC
Debra Scully wrote:
Will it be worth me keeping my POS?
Might as well wait and see what the job install costs are like for a couple of weeks. If your POS is in a system without NPC facilities you might be saving significant money.

Don't forget you'll probably want to make BPC's in a station regardless.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#5 - 2014-07-21 22:41:21 UTC
Debra Scully wrote:
Will it be worth me keeping my POS?

Anybody that thinks they know the answer is fooling themselves.

I suspect it will take at least 3 months before anybody can give a reasonable answer.
infra52x
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-07-22 11:55:08 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
You don't pay a 10% NPC cost on any industry or research activities at a POS, all you'll pay is the job installation costs, which scale with the industrial activity of the system you're in (i.e. if you're in a crowded system, costs are higher), and, of course, fuel costs. You also save time and, for production at least, materials.

After Crius, you'll only ever need one of any lab or array online at a time (unless you are using them for storage) because slots are going away. Your only limit with even a single lab will be the number of jobs your skills allow you to run.

Keeping a POS up purely for research being "worth it" post-Crius will depend on a few factors. If your POS is in a system with no NPC labs or factories and not many moons (i.e. low volume), your install costs would be trivial, whereas if you're in a system with multiple NPC labs and lots of moons (i.e. high volume), they could be painfully high.

If you branch out into industry (material savings could be valuable) or mining (higher refine rates at a POS, not to mention ore compression), I'd say it's more likely to be worth it.




I guess you didn't read the update notes son...... LTR


I'll leave this here--->>>> Structure cost scaling

Removing slots from industry jobs discourage players from stacking more than one Starbase structure of the same type at a Control Tower. To counteract this point, we are going to give specific bonuses when Starbase structures of the same type are stacked together at the same control tower.

This bonus is going to be a flat reduction on the whole job cost price, whose amount and total bonus varies depending on the Starbase structure itself.

Structure Type


Cost reduction per structure


Max bonus per structure

Medium Ship Assembly, Advanced Medium Ship Assembly, Subsystem Assembly


2%


26%

Large Ship Assembly, Advanced Large Ship Assembly, Capital Ship Assembly


3%


21%

Design Laboratory, Experimental Laboratory, Hyasyoda Research Laboratory, Research Laboratory


1.5%


22.5%

Drug Lab, Ammunition Assembly, Drone Assembly, Component Assembly, Equipment Assembly, Rapid Equipment Assembly


0.5%


25%

Supercapital Ship Assembly


5%


15%

Advanced Small Ship Assembly, Small Ship Assembly


1%


27%

In practice, this means that stacking 13 Medium Ship Assembly, Advanced Medium Assembly or Subsystem Assembly Arrays will reduce the total cost to start a manufacturing job at any of those structures by 26%. Those bonuses are not system wide, which means that structures at two different locations inside the same solar system will not stack together.
Takanuro
Eve Faction Trade Exchange
#7 - 2014-07-22 12:00:30 UTC
infra52x wrote:
Bronson Hughes wrote:
You don't pay a 10% NPC cost on any industry or research activities at a POS, all you'll pay is the job installation costs, which scale with the industrial activity of the system you're in (i.e. if you're in a crowded system, costs are higher), and, of course, fuel costs. You also save time and, for production at least, materials.

After Crius, you'll only ever need one of any lab or array online at a time (unless you are using them for storage) because slots are going away. Your only limit with even a single lab will be the number of jobs your skills allow you to run.

Keeping a POS up purely for research being "worth it" post-Crius will depend on a few factors. If your POS is in a system with no NPC labs or factories and not many moons (i.e. low volume), your install costs would be trivial, whereas if you're in a system with multiple NPC labs and lots of moons (i.e. high volume), they could be painfully high.

If you branch out into industry (material savings could be valuable) or mining (higher refine rates at a POS, not to mention ore compression), I'd say it's more likely to be worth it.




I guess you didn't read the update notes son...... LTR


I'll leave this here--->>>> Structure cost scaling

Removing slots from industry jobs discourage players from stacking more than one Starbase structure of the same type at a Control Tower. To counteract this point, we are going to give specific bonuses when Starbase structures of the same type are stacked together at the same control tower.

This bonus is going to be a flat reduction on the whole job cost price, whose amount and total bonus varies depending on the Starbase structure itself.

Structure Type


Cost reduction per structure


Max bonus per structure

Medium Ship Assembly, Advanced Medium Ship Assembly, Subsystem Assembly


2%


26%

Large Ship Assembly, Advanced Large Ship Assembly, Capital Ship Assembly


3%


21%

Design Laboratory, Experimental Laboratory, Hyasyoda Research Laboratory, Research Laboratory


1.5%


22.5%

Drug Lab, Ammunition Assembly, Drone Assembly, Component Assembly, Equipment Assembly, Rapid Equipment Assembly


0.5%


25%

Supercapital Ship Assembly


5%


15%

Advanced Small Ship Assembly, Small Ship Assembly


1%


27%

In practice, this means that stacking 13 Medium Ship Assembly, Advanced Medium Assembly or Subsystem Assembly Arrays will reduce the total cost to start a manufacturing job at any of those structures by 26%. Those bonuses are not system wide, which means that structures at two different locations inside the same solar system will not stack together.


LOL. They scrapped all that so LTR

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infra52x
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-07-22 12:05:15 UTC
Takanuro wrote:
infra52x wrote:
Bronson Hughes wrote:
You don't pay a 10% NPC cost on any industry or research activities at a POS, all you'll pay is the job installation costs, which scale with the industrial activity of the system you're in (i.e. if you're in a crowded system, costs are higher), and, of course, fuel costs. You also save time and, for production at least, materials.

After Crius, you'll only ever need one of any lab or array online at a time (unless you are using them for storage) because slots are going away. Your only limit with even a single lab will be the number of jobs your skills allow you to run.

Keeping a POS up purely for research being "worth it" post-Crius will depend on a few factors. If your POS is in a system with no NPC labs or factories and not many moons (i.e. low volume), your install costs would be trivial, whereas if you're in a system with multiple NPC labs and lots of moons (i.e. high volume), they could be painfully high.

If you branch out into industry (material savings could be valuable) or mining (higher refine rates at a POS, not to mention ore compression), I'd say it's more likely to be worth it.




I guess you didn't read the update notes son...... LTR


I'll leave this here--->>>> Structure cost scaling

Removing slots from industry jobs discourage players from stacking more than one Starbase structure of the same type at a Control Tower. To counteract this point, we are going to give specific bonuses when Starbase structures of the same type are stacked together at the same control tower.

This bonus is going to be a flat reduction on the whole job cost price, whose amount and total bonus varies depending on the Starbase structure itself.

Structure Type


Cost reduction per structure


Max bonus per structure

Medium Ship Assembly, Advanced Medium Ship Assembly, Subsystem Assembly


2%


26%

Large Ship Assembly, Advanced Large Ship Assembly, Capital Ship Assembly


3%


21%

Design Laboratory, Experimental Laboratory, Hyasyoda Research Laboratory, Research Laboratory


1.5%


22.5%

Drug Lab, Ammunition Assembly, Drone Assembly, Component Assembly, Equipment Assembly, Rapid Equipment Assembly


0.5%


25%

Supercapital Ship Assembly


5%


15%

Advanced Small Ship Assembly, Small Ship Assembly


1%


27%

In practice, this means that stacking 13 Medium Ship Assembly, Advanced Medium Assembly or Subsystem Assembly Arrays will reduce the total cost to start a manufacturing job at any of those structures by 26%. Those bonuses are not system wide, which means that structures at two different locations inside the same solar system will not stack together.


LOL. They scrapped all that so LTR



Your kidding me, I just read that on their updated link on the launcher while I download the update... Oh well, too-shay.. I'll just crawl back into my cave and lick my wounds.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#9 - 2014-07-23 13:16:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Bronson Hughes
infra52x wrote:
Your kidding me, I just read that on their updated link on the launcher while I download the update... Oh well, too-shay.. I'll just crawl back into my cave and lick my wounds.

In your defense, CCP did an absolutely abysmal job announcing this. The only "announcement" I saw was buried 20-pages deep in a Test Server Feedback thread (which I found totally by accident), and it's lack of presence on the final patch notes.

So, for now, running a "Swiss Army POS" is not only easy, but cost effective.

EDIT: Also remember that those bonuses only impacted job install costs, not material costs. If you're in a system with rock-bottom install costs, it wouldn't have mattered anyways.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs